00:00:00 --- log: started retro/13.02.05 02:05:37 --- quit: SimonRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 02:05:53 --- join: SimonRC (~sc@fof.durge.org) joined #retro 09:44:34 --- join: kbmaniac (~dave@host86-157-24-246.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) joined #retro 10:04:51 --- quit: kbmaniac (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:21:11 --- join: ncv (~quassel@86.125.231.179) joined #retro 10:21:11 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 10:21:11 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 10:35:30 --- join: ncv_ (~quassel@86.125.231.38) joined #retro 10:36:01 --- quit: ncv (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:41:12 --- nick: tangentwork -> tangentstorm 12:23:49 --- quit: ChanServ (*.net *.split) 12:30:11 --- join: Mat2 (5b419085@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.65.144.133) joined #retro 12:30:17 hello 12:30:46 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #retro 12:30:46 --- mode: asimov.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 12:36:37 --- quit: ChanServ (*.net *.split) 12:38:08 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #retro 12:38:08 --- mode: asimov.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 12:38:46 --- quit: ChanServ (*.net *.split) 12:39:58 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #retro 12:39:58 --- mode: asimov.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 12:55:34 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #retro 13:09:36 --- quit: ncv_ (Remote host closed the connection) 13:22:11 --- join: beretta (~yaaic@cpe-107-8-120-84.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #retro 13:22:42 --- nick: tangentstorm -> tangentgone 13:29:28 hi Mat2 13:29:40 hi erider ! 13:29:51 how are you doing today 13:30:16 * erider got his qemu up and going with freedos :-) 13:34:40 better than yesterday, beside some work to do before midnight 13:35:19 freedos is a nice MS/DOS replacement 13:37:02 (take a look at Haiku OS) 13:37:05 --- join: kbmaniac (~dave@host86-157-24-246.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) joined #retro 13:37:48 ok I will 13:40:56 http://www.haiku-os.org/ 13:42:08 I am at the site now 13:42:49 --- quit: beretta (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:42:55 --- quit: ChanServ (*.net *.split) 13:42:58 and Icaros OS (an AROS distribution -> AMIGA OS 3.1 comp. operating system for x86, ARM and PowerPC architecture) 13:43:18 http://vmwaros.blogspot.de/ 13:44:01 Mat2: are you running one of those OSes 13:44:23 I'm running AROS in a vm 13:44:50 and Haiku for some sporadic development 13:45:17 Mat2: what is the smallest forth you have seen in asm 13:45:54 that was förtchen from Helmar (the author of HelForth) 13:46:23 somewhat about 2 kB of ram 13:46:36 (with some modifications) 13:46:43 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #retro 13:46:43 --- mode: asimov.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 13:48:08 Mat2: it runs on linux? 13:48:24 yes but only for x86 cpu's 13:48:44 because 100% assembler sources 13:50:54 Mat2: do you have the source or the binary/ 13:51:09 --- quit: kbmaniac (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 13:54:07 huh, I must take a look at my old external harddisks, this will take a while 13:54:57 you can also contact it's author. He is spradly active on comp.lang.forth for example 13:56:22 why do you need such an minimalistic environment ? 13:56:31 http://forthworks.com/systems/helforth/foerthchen-current.tgz 13:56:51 hi crcx 13:57:20 hi crc 13:57:25 there has to be a smaller bootstrap version under 2kb 14:00:12 small ELF Linux binary (706 bytes), small Perl-script (755 bytes) 14:00:30 that will be difficult even with this sources... 14:00:57 hmm that small elf looks interesting 14:02:57 I know a minimal DOS clone which fits in a 512 byte bootsector 14:04:07 for bundling with an application 14:04:29 otherwise I don't see much sense in it 14:06:55 crcx: do you have that binary 14:09:05 cool foerthchen is only 706 bytes 14:12:57 neat it only has 26 words 14:13:42 yes, and parses tokens with max. size of 4 characters 14:13:55 (32 bit word) 14:16:01 anyhow, you can build up a somewhat traditional forth system from it 14:17:32 very cool 14:22:04 I'll just change the room 14:22:09 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 14:23:51 --- join: Mat2 (~claude@91-65-144-133-dynip.superkabel.de) joined #retro 14:28:04 wb Mat2 14:28:10 thanks 14:29:22 do you know, freebsd uses ficl as boot-environment ? 14:30:58 does it? 14:31:00 you can boot straight into the forth promt at demand 14:31:04 I didn't know that 14:31:17 very nice :-) 14:31:57 I wonder if that is the some on juniper routers since they are freebsd based 14:34:34 --- nick: tangentgone -> tangentstorm 14:35:44 706 bytes.. nice. 14:36:17 ahm, I think routers are a somewhat sensible target whith emphasis on protection, so I don't think the freebsd installation offer a boot option 14:36:59 (beside backdoors probabbly) 14:37:06 ^probably 14:37:12 hi tangentstorm ! 14:37:40 heya :) 14:38:27 still working on minesweepr here. code is much cleaner than before, and down to a handful of bugs instead of crashing everywhere 14:38:39 nice ! 14:39:05 https://github.com/sabren/b4/blob/fa1133caf2d43b277732b5b50f596a8415a8e447/rx/mineswpr.rx 14:39:21 very nice! 14:39:46 got a bunch of macros in there now that should make it easier to compile oberon/pascal 14:40:07 * tangentstorm makes a screenshot 14:41:10 * erider waits for the screenshot 14:46:59 grr.. wanted to show how to put flags but they're not showing right. fixing the bug first :) 14:53:01 * erider still waits for the screenshot 15:02:27 http://imgur.com/NBUfOSp 15:07:32 tangentstorm: very very coool :-0 15:08:09 "This is linux, right?" 15:08:13 *lol* 15:09:17 yeah 15:11:03 no, its VMS on a time-sharing VAX system with radioactive terminal support, executing a bash-emulation *g* 15:11:37 that's weird. it's showing you the gallery page? :/ 15:11:55 the gallery page shrinks it down so you can barely see it. :( 15:13:29 I can enlarge the pictures 15:13:43 me too, but only to a fraction of the size it should be 15:13:58 no problem here 15:14:24 huh. well... cool :) 15:15:30 no issues here either 15:15:42 who is running on a VAX 15:15:49 i guess i see something different because i'm the author 15:16:35 erider: It was a joke, as reaction of this one statement:" This is linux, right?" 15:17:03 oh sorry I didn't catch the humour 15:18:16 there was no support for radioactive terminals on a VAX :D 15:20:38 radioactive := monochrome, green phosphored cathode tubes (later plasma displays) 15:23:08 http://pouet.net/screenshots/54666.gif 15:23:34 <- screenshot from an CPC with green monitor 15:23:47 hmm 15:25:52 think about this display at 50 Hz and you get the eye-disturbing feeling of those output devices 15:26:19 specially in dark rooms 15:37:56 Mat2: so what are you up to now 15:38:04 getting ready for bed? 15:40:00 I'm working on the parser for metro 15:40:27 and preparing my web-server for hosting a homepage 15:40:36 for this project 15:40:52 retro/metro 15:41:07 what does them M stand for 15:41:16 modified 15:41:22 cool 15:41:29 good deal 15:41:50 any changes to the syntax 15:43:11 there are a lot of syntactical differencies but it would take little to port code 15:43:34 in fact, I code a metro layer for retro in parallel 15:44:11 and a retro compatibly option for metro 15:44:16 so you are doing the coding for metro in retor 15:44:22 retro 15:44:50 no, but port the language features if possible 15:46:00 it's the same appraoch as with pfe. This forth support FIG, Forth 79, Forth83 and the ANSI standart 15:46:21 I see 15:47:42 if tangentstorms project is finished metro (and retro) will also compile oberon source-code 15:48:56 good deal 15:50:38 ok, metro support autoparallelization, I think that feature is not portable to retro 15:50:56 and array processing 15:51:35 autoparallelization? 15:53:50 the metro listenener compile code for parallel processing automatical if possible. The programmer do not need to handle threads or processes (but can) 15:55:08 oh 15:56:22 For example, I have here a 4 core Intel cpu. The metro interpreter rearrange the source-code at compilation time so that code blocks can use all 4 cores if possible 15:57:20 That is possible, because the listener interpret not only tokens but also the dynamic stack state. 15:58:12 --- join: beretta (~yaaic@cpe-107-8-120-84.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #retro 15:59:49 As side effect metro support type conversations on the fly (with an internal type-system similar to Pascal) 16:04:01 not that is cool, that is kind of what clojure does 16:04:57 I do not know Clojure in detail but think it's an Lisp dialect 16:06:41 the metro compiler uses the dynamic type-state for seperation of routines which can be executed parallel 16:07:00 I do not know the method Clojure implements 16:07:16 lisp on a the jvm 16:09:17 hmm, a dynamic language on a static vm should not be a good fit but I bet megabytes of ram and ressource-intesive JIT compiling compensate for it 16:09:50 yeah 16:10:23 if it makes the hardware vendors happy, why not 16:10:48 (beside the waste of energy ressources) 16:11:37 lol 16:13:45 I found PicoLisp much more appealing to me 16:14:13 yeah but you are minimalistic ;-) 16:16:39 call that the search for efficience :D 16:17:43 * tangentstorm likes picolisp too. 16:18:08 :-) 16:20:28 picolisp has a full relational database and prolog/inference engine in the standard libraries. 16:21:04 i've thought on and off about maybe using it as the foundation for my database stuff when i get to that point. 16:24:14 picolisp is a very powerful language as it offers complete orthogonality of data and code 16:25:41 it even do not depend on a macro processor (like most other lisp's) 16:30:47 if not only all the brackets were 16:30:50 ... 16:34:45 Mat2: metro is going to run on powerpc 16:36:05 I think it will be portable to most *nix like os systems 16:36:42 time will tell, as I will compile the sources on my old iMac G3 16:38:34 the only cpu dependent part is the native-code compiler but metro will compile without it just fine (and only uses the vm in this case of course) 16:45:15 get some sleep, 16:45:20 ciao all together ! 16:45:26 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Verlassend) 17:07:38 --- nick: tangentstorm -> tangentgone 17:56:41 --- quit: beretta (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18:27:50 --- join: beretta (~yaaic@cpe-107-8-120-84.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #retro 18:42:32 --- nick: tangentgone -> tangentstorm 19:05:10 --- quit: TheStitch (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 19:05:11 --- join: TheStitch (~Stitch@2a02:7d0:3:203:216:3eff:fe1e:f36a) joined #retro 19:12:58 --- quit: beretta (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:17:08 --- join: beretta (~yaaic@cpe-107-8-120-84.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #retro 19:40:29 --- quit: beretta (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 19:41:50 --- join: kumool (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #retro 19:45:56 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20:25:45 --- quit: kumool (Quit: Leaving) 21:07:35 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 21:09:46 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #retro 22:31:46 --- nick: tangentstorm -> tangentsleep 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/13.02.05