00:00:00 --- log: started retro/12.09.03 04:51:23 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@31.185.151.82) joined #retro 04:58:32 --- quit: ivan`` (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 05:01:55 --- join: ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) joined #retro 05:08:31 hi 05:10:07 Hi :-) 05:11:41 impomatic: how is your exploration of joy going? 05:27:40 Not very well... I haven't had much free time :-( 05:28:55 impomatic: are you looking just to see whats new with it or are you looking to use it for something? 05:30:02 Just to see what's new. I like Forth, but it's a bit messy. So I'm looked at a few other stack-based languages... 05:30:09 I just need to pack 50+ parcels then I'm free for the rest of the day :-) 05:31:22 impomatic: messy because of all the implementations and the standard is all over the place or in what way 05:34:16 Messy due to the standard, and words either being renamed or behaving differently between different standards. 05:36:02 I've written a Forth, but I'm tempted to cut some of the junk out and it just be Forth-like :-) 05:36:57 have you looked at toka? 05:41:16 Not yet. Haven't heard of it, but just Googled it to read later. 06:05:34 * crc agrees that forth is is messy 06:08:04 impomatic: toka is a stack based language that is small but has all the stuff one would need for a general purpose language and a plus it is written by crc 06:50:37 crc: hey quotes are left on the stack and can be manipulated with stack functions in toka? 06:53:21 yes 06:58:10 crc: so quotes can be data or code right? 07:01:23 they are more of code than data. you can't modify them withut knowledge of the compiler and bytecode fomat 07:02:12 but it is data when it is setting on the stack 07:02:34 yes 07:02:54 quote operation is a function right 07:03:01 [] is a function? 07:03:12 yes 07:03:26 good deal 07:04:06 and a combinator is what acts on the quote? 07:04:47 or forces the quote out of data mode into code mode or just plain execution 07:04:57 crc: is that correct? 07:13:42 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk) 07:26:25 fundamentaly, the quote on the stack is just a pointer. combinators will either execute or do something else with it 08:36:08 --- quit: CIA-105 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 08:52:36 crc: but there is no way to get to parts or single elements to a program that has been quoted right? ie [ 2 3 + ] get 2 or 3 or even + from off the stack 09:03:13 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@87.114.68.215) joined #retro 09:08:17 --- join: CIA-104 (cia@cia.vc) joined #retro 09:19:34 --- join: Mat2 (5b4085c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.64.133.197) joined #retro 09:19:53 hello there 09:20:31 hi Mat2 09:20:40 Hi eride 09:20:44 sorry erider 09:21:03 what is the status of your text adventure ? 09:21:09 crc: I don't think there is a way to get to the parts 09:22:01 what parts ? 09:22:08 I have not started but I did the same think when I was learning scheme with the casting spels in lisp :-) 09:22:19 thing* 09:25:01 probably you can take a look into the docomentation of some old FIG forth for the commodore 128 (128 Forth). It have a nice description of this kind of application in forth with a simple example 09:25:09 ^documentation 09:27:28 I like to learn how to use stack based languages efficiently, but that doesn't mean forth. toka or even retro would be my target 09:28:42 Mat2: is that documentation available online? 09:29:06 or maybe even parable once crc is done tweaking it 09:30:05 I was thinking of porting the lisp version :-) 09:30:31 impomatic: have you looked at joy 09:31:34 --- quit: Mat2 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:33:05 --- join: Mat2 (5b4085c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.64.133.197) joined #retro 09:33:22 erider: I do not know 09:34:10 in retro as forth you can program these kind of application in a very easy way, just extend the listener 09:34:42 and build a language for the game data, room descriptions, objects and so on 09:34:45 that is the cool part of the language the extension 09:35:18 do you have the documentation available online? 09:35:45 no, but I can scan the handbook 09:37:55 impomatic: joy looks neat with the list structure its sort like quotes in toka but joy can do a lot more with their list out the box then toka can do with out some language extension 09:38:08 sort of** 09:38:31 with*out 09:51:39 I know a Basic and C Compiler in forth 09:52:33 not to forget V8, the javascript implementation of mozilla is based on forth 09:53:17 so if these languages with there complex syntax can be implemented, a text adventure should no problem 09:53:33 ^give no problem 09:54:20 with retro thats probably much easier, because you can use quotations and combinators 09:56:17 (and you have these practical word classes) 09:59:56 sorry, the forth based javascript engine is named SpiderMonkey not v8 10:00:10 (that ist the javascript compiler in crome) 10:02:18 and the forth engine was tamarin 10:02:29 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: impomatic) 10:05:34 ciao 10:05:42 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 11:02:26 erider: there is no easy way to get the tokens back from a compiled quote. it's easier in parable (due to the more restrictive compiler), but generally this isn't needed for the applications I write 11:03:38 is v8 based on forth? 11:04:09 I've seen Tamarin to be based on a forth-like vm (but without stuff like create ... does>) internally 11:17:48 I don't think v8 has any roots in forth 11:24:13 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@87.114.68.215) joined #retro 11:44:12 --- join: Mat2 (5b4085c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.64.133.197) joined #retro 11:44:43 saper: v8 is not based on forth, it was tamarin, sorry 11:45:41 crc: how are prefixes handled in retro ? 11:45:51 I was wondering; having two engines based on Forth would be telling :) 11:51:52 mmat2: if a word is not found, the error handler checks to see if the first character is a valid prefix 11:52:49 ok, and each prefix has its own class handler ? 11:53:30 prefixes are just functions with specific naming (__ 11:53:50 thanks 11:54:11 the details are covered in the Commentary.txt under doc/ 12:10:15 --- nick: ivan`` -> ^ivan`` 14:04:08 ciao 14:04:11 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 14:15:47 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 14:25:18 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 15:22:40 hi all 16:04:02 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@67.224.135.43) joined #retro 16:18:44 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: impomatic) 18:35:40 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal.wa@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #retro 19:16:59 --- quit: tangentstorm () 20:14:43 --- nick: ^ivan`` -> ivan`` 23:37:16 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: gone) 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/12.09.03