00:00:00 --- log: started retro/12.08.20 00:41:06 --- quit: ChanServ (*.net *.split) 01:21:50 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #retro 01:21:50 --- mode: wolfe.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 02:18:41 --- quit: impomatic (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:52:47 foucist: I have longer idle times presently :) 05:21:21 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@67.224.129.123) joined #retro 07:09:55 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@pool-173-69-153-119.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #retro 07:10:06 hi all 08:05:00 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: bbl) 08:40:28 hi erider 08:49:09 hi crc whats new 09:10:07 not much 09:10:20 started some work on retro-11.5, and adding arrays to parable 09:11:08 are you adding anything to retro-11.5? 09:15:50 crc: hey what type of data is retroImage file? Is it encrypted plain text 09:20:58 it's raw binary, little endian, 32-bit values 09:21:59 11.5 will start to bridge the language towards parable 09:22:18 cleanups, start deprecating dead code/unneeded redundancies 09:33:09 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@12.232.125.91.dyn.plus.net) joined #retro 09:43:01 crc: wow how are you going to make the connections between the two languages? via syntax maybe 09:43:56 eventually parable may be able to generate an image using ngaro bytecode 10:07:31 ok 10:10:29 crc parable is a small but simple language right? 10:11:32 everything is an array? 10:19:19 no 10:19:34 parable is essentially a hybrid of toka and retro 10:20:03 written in coffee? 10:22:52 crc so you are going to start using parable to do some cross compiling work parable-to-retor 10:23:00 retro* 10:24:14 yes, written in coffeescript 10:24:30 cross compiling to other languages/vm models is an eventual goal 10:25:39 a language to write other languages, sort of like lisp 10:26:05 my current goals are to flesh out the core function set, and get the server-side components finished 10:36:15 the server components are needed before parable will become actually useful 10:37:50 I am not sure what the server components are going to do for you 10:40:53 test 10:41:19 --- quit: erider (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713224758]) 10:42:11 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 10:48:39 crc: hey is retro based on forth79? 10:50:52 no. 10:52:36 parable's server side components will handle storage of parable sessions across devices, with transparent version control 10:52:56 there are also server side components for rendering documentation (markdown->html) 10:53:05 retro is not based on any of the forth standards 10:54:50 so do you recommend to start out with forth then move to retro or go right into retro. 10:55:32 I am trying to give the best info to a friend 11:00:13 retro has a lot of differences from a standard forth system 11:04:06 --- quit: ChanServ (*.net *.split) 11:04:20 but what will he need to get into the stack base style of programming 11:05:23 either approach will work. with a traditional forth, you'll get more support materials (tutorials, etc), but a more complex set of control structures (if/else/then, begin/while/repeat, do/loop), and no combinators 11:06:08 I can answer questions regarding retro, but thee's no real tutorial material to point to 11:06:11 *there's 11:09:01 ok I think he should start with something that doesn't have a huge set of words 11:09:55 just don't expose him to everything at once 11:10:30 ("words" was a bad thing to add, from a usability standpoint; seeing a large list of available functions is somewhat intimidating for newer users) 11:13:41 parable provides a permanent list of all named items, but it's not geared towards new users. (it's target audience is small: me) 11:15:01 :-) 11:15:45 sounds good 11:18:24 the interesting thing is how small the vm can be WOW 11:21:31 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: impomatic) 11:33:17 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #retro 11:33:18 --- mode: wolfe.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 11:39:21 --- quit: ChanServ (*.net *.split) 12:03:01 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #retro 12:03:01 --- mode: wolfe.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 12:14:10 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@67.224.129.123) joined #retro 12:15:18 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@12.232.125.91.dyn.plus.net) joined #retro 13:00:12 --- quit: jyfl987 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:00:25 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #retro 16:33:18 hi all 16:45:24 good evening 16:49:45 --- part: erider left #retro 16:49:58 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 16:50:01 hi crc 17:06:40 crc: are you at home now 17:10:42 yes 17:11:00 working on updates 17:11:50 still working on arrays 17:14:30 crc: in retro? 17:14:50 parable 17:15:01 ah ok 17:15:03 retro has a functional array library 17:15:29 it's not possible to do a direct translation due to the differing memory models 17:15:50 its not a block of memory 17:16:12 parable divides memory into multiple separate segments 17:16:45 its that better then just handling a single block 17:17:10 the vm has bytecodes for allocating and freeing segments, and a few bytecides for reading/writing to locations in segments 17:20:12 so it is an issue of the internals that are not playing well 17:24:16 no, it's just a new model which requires different approaches 17:25:06 in the long run, there are benefits to this (I can generate smaller images for targets with lower memory, and it keeps things simpler for the decompiler) 17:26:31 so what is the approach that you are going to take 17:27:21 I'm not sure yet. doing experiments presently to see what seems to work est 17:28:23 do you need to find a segment to work with 17:31:21 building an array is not a problem. merging is harder, since I have to juggle two slices 17:34:52 crc: you have to merge the memory 17:36:20 create a new segment, set number of items in the array, copy first, then second into the new one, return pointer to the new one 17:36:28 that's the concept 17:38:31 interesting 17:39:09 so as I work towards implementing it, I can identify other useful functions that are needed. (e.g., heap.fetch/advance, which is similar to @+ in retro) 17:42:15 @+ is different than @ 1 + 17:43:49 @+ is [ @ ] sip 1 + or dup @ swap 1 + 17:45:53 [ heap.current memory.fetch heap.advance ] "heap.fetch/advance" define 17:46:02 would be the parable equivilent 17:49:38 parable is very chatty :-) 17:51:00 function names tend to be much longer than in my earlier languages 17:51:26 it'll eventually be possible to rename them, but there's no ui for that yet 17:59:42 --- join: arescorpio (~arescorpi@222-206-17-190.fibertel.com.ar) joined #retro 17:59:43 I like described names 18:10:43 descriptive names are helpful 18:11:05 plus, every function in parable has a little built-in documentation 18:17:44 how is your dictionary layout? 18:19:30 internal to the vm 18:19:41 presently it's a set of matched arrays 18:20:03 I could change that with no effect to parable's users 18:25:54 will you be around tomorrow night? crc 18:30:37 yes 18:37:54 ok I will chat with you tomorrow 20:40:51 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: gone) 21:38:46 --- quit: arescorpio (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:53:49 crc: are you a left-hand person? why not move the stack display of parable to the left ? 23:05:55 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/12.08.20