00:00:00 --- log: started retro/12.05.15 09:13:17 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@173.215.194.245) joined #retro 09:43:56 --- join: __tthomas__ (~Owner@24.130.7.34) joined #retro 09:44:08 <__tthomas__> Good morning all 09:46:48 hi __tthomas__ 09:56:45 <__tthomas__> how are you liking coffeescript vs. javascript crc ? 10:08:44 coffeescript is much cleaner feeling 10:09:44 <__tthomas__> I can't disagree with that, been curious with how it would be with mochikit which attempts to bring more pythonic libraries to javascript.. 10:11:40 --- join: Mat2 (5b4085c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.64.133.197) joined #retro 10:11:49 Hi @ all 10:12:03 <__tthomas__> hey Mat2 10:12:14 hi tthomas 10:13:06 what's up hacking ? 10:13:25 <__tthomas__> Yesterday was experimenting with visual studio 2010 for python programming and debugging, was very impressed.. 10:13:49 I have ported my vm to freepascal 10:14:02 <__tthomas__> awesome, do you use lazarus? 10:14:11 no, just the compiler 10:14:42 joe as editor is IDE enough 10:15:14 <__tthomas__> heh, I go back and forth.. 10:15:44 <__tthomas__> really depends on what I am doing.. sometimes just use notepad.. 10:16:09 the advantage is: I can crosscompile the whole vm for most important cpu architectures without changes 10:17:31 <__tthomas__> nice, that is why I love haxe.. can run cross platform via nekoVM.. or if I want performance, compile to c++.. 10:17:44 for GUI like stuff, Lazarus is a good IDE 10:18:27 <__tthomas__> I only really ever want IDE if I am messing with lots of files, like with C++ projects, or languages like Java and C# where it is impossible to do anything without tab completion.. 10:19:50 <__tthomas__> and debugging in an IDE is a bit saner than using gdb 10:19:53 after years of wasting time with design flawed languages like C, I enjoy programming in pascal 10:20:01 at current 10:20:42 <__tthomas__> I really like C, it is the ++ I am not a fan of.. 10:21:38 for debugging I use fdbg and add breakpoints at the assembly listing (0xCC) 10:22:02 nah, C is ... bad 10:22:11 the syntax alone 10:22:18 <__tthomas__> I usually prototype in python, then rewrite in C.. 10:22:44 <__tthomas__> it is pretty light on syntax which is why I like it, though there are a few annoyances with dereferencing and pointer syntax.. 10:23:33 __tthomas__: I hadn't seen mochikit before; I'll take a look at it soon 10:23:56 you should give genie a try, it's syntax is very close to phyton and compiles straight to native-code (via C translation) 10:24:17 <__tthomas__> crc it has been around for a bit, not a lot of development goes on as they feel it is feature complete and stable.. 10:25:31 *lol* I compiled the sources with TurboPASCAL for cp/m. Now I have a working vm for z80 cpu's 10:25:57 <__tthomas__> Mat2 there are quite a few projects like that, cython, shedskin, even pypy if you use translation toolchain.. unfortunately they are all garbage collected and use dynamic memory which is unacceptable for what I do.. 10:27:42 __tthomas__: you can compile genie sources even without any glib dependency. It doesn't depend on a runtime library (same for vala) 10:28:44 <__tthomas__> straight ansi99 C? is generated source human readable? I do quite a bit of code generation at work for binary serializers.. 10:29:22 only compiked some test programs, but found no problem with readability 10:29:28 sorry compiled 10:30:12 I think your can write os kernels in genie if you want 10:30:29 <__tthomas__> hmm.. interesting.. 10:32:27 <__tthomas__> hmm.. wikipedia claims genie uses glib and gobject type system.. 10:32:49 yes, you can get rid of both though a compiler flag 10:34:09 you can't use the object system this way of course 10:35:52 there point to this on the project page "Vala is a new programming language that aims to bring modern programming language features to GNOME developers without imposing any additional runtime requirements and without using a different ABI compared to applications and libraries written in C. " 10:36:57 <__tthomas__> yeah, gobject is library for bringing object like type system to C, so makes sense.. ABI thing is a huge reason not to use C++ 10:37:18 yes 10:39:05 <__tthomas__> doesn't look like there is a windows version.. 10:39:44 you need MingW 10:39:55 http://live.gnome.org/Vala/ValaOnWindows 10:40:08 <__tthomas__> I found vala, no genie.. 10:41:10 genie is a optinal syntax for vala, so the compiler belongs the same 10:41:18 optional 10:41:50 as I know it you can switch between both in the same source file some way 10:42:33 probably one day someone implement a forth syntax-file for the compiler *g* 10:44:20 <__tthomas__> as long as it has quotes and supports functional programming, be plenty happy with that.. 10:46:22 ok, vala and genie support the same range of funtional-programming features as all other langauges of this kind: none 10:46:38 I mean functional 10:47:10 C++ don't even support pattern matching... 10:47:44 on the other side, pascal support this style though sets 10:48:25 and variadic records (both features influenced later development of functional languages like hope) 10:53:03 do you know pure ? 10:53:39 it's a functional language which compile to native-code or LLVM based C 10:54:09 or parse source-code directly and JIT compiling it on the fly 10:58:09 <__tthomas__> never heard of it.. 10:59:08 http://code.google.com/p/pure-lang/ 10:59:25 just found this: http://www.retroleum.co.uk/ez80p/ 10:59:50 really nice and cheap for FPGA development (as I can say) 10:59:58 <__tthomas__> wish I was more competent with parser generators, as there are certain patterns I use a whole lot in C++ that would be easy to generate in C 11:00:55 <__tthomas__> I started playing with myhdl for FPGA verilog generation.. it is a python library for testing and validating hardware that can generate verilog from python source.. 11:01:49 read like a nice idea ! 11:02:50 <__tthomas__> yeah, you have to understand RTL to be effective with it.. so it is slow going.. 11:03:11 <__tthomas__> though the verilog is testable in icarus.. and can watch logic in gtkwave.. 11:04:24 I think it is worth the learning curve 11:04:53 <__tthomas__> I don't think it is realistic to design hardware without having to learn RTL so I am good with it.. 11:07:20 hmm, no way around I think 11:09:19 <__tthomas__> I have ttl cookbook, so will probably start by trying to convert some of those circuits.. 11:10:41 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@227.127.112.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #retro 11:17:54 cool 11:52:10 I will spend some time with coding, ciao 11:52:28 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 12:25:51 parable's vm should be finished by the weekwend 13:26:18 <__tthomas__> awesome 13:27:34 <__tthomas__> crc seen any big improvements so far? like code size, execution speed, or ease of implementing certain types of code? 13:28:45 --- quit: TheStitch (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:47:56 no major improvements yet, but I expect some good things. (one positive: since it isn't trying to emulate an actual CPU it seems much lighter on the battery in my ipad) 13:48:56 <__tthomas__> cool, I just realized I don't need roll in my vm experiment, which is good since it is harder to implement then pick 13:53:01 <__tthomas__> crc I think using native language for string processing will be a major win speed and code density wise.. 14:09:53 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 14:20:07 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 14:48:45 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:57:27 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 15:34:52 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 15:48:27 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 16:29:40 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 16:39:54 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 16:50:15 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:00:29 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 17:11:38 --- quit: __tthomas__ (Quit: Leaving.) 17:32:40 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 17:42:56 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 18:09:01 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:19:17 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 18:21:05 --- part: impomatic left #retro 18:23:23 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 18:23:24 --- join: TheStitch (~Stitch@2a02:7d0:1:203:216:3eff:fe1e:f36a) joined #retro 18:33:40 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 18:36:38 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:46:58 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 18:51:04 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 19:01:24 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 19:11:00 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:21:12 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 20:31:23 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 20:41:38 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 20:48:15 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: leaving) 20:48:24 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #retro 22:17:56 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 22:28:09 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #retro 23:37:47 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: gone) 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/12.05.15