00:00:00 --- log: started retro/11.04.30 03:40:44 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/roarde) joined #retro 04:08:11 --- quit: roarde (Read error: Operation timed out) 06:42:07 --- join: zzing (~zzing@CPE0024369fd268-CM0012254195d6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #retro 06:51:33 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 06:51:37 hello 06:56:26 Hallow 06:57:28 Quid agis hodie? 06:59:28 Retro looks a little confusing - what is the most direct method of install? 07:18:42 zzing are you using nix? 07:19:17 if so I think it is as easy as doing a "make" 07:21:07 It appears that I downloaded retro-10.7.6 yesterday and made it 07:21:15 So I have a retro executable 07:22:16 The Ngaro VM looks very much like a basic processor assembly 07:24:44 I should describe what I am doing now and looking to do in the future. I am designing a computer using a rather old processor some time this fall. It occurs to me that a forth would be the easiest way to get going. First though, I need to learn forth. This learning part looks a little 'confusing' in the number of options available, and so far I haven't been convinced of their appropriateness. 07:25:26 So basically - I want to learn a forth, and be able to do things with it. The challenges as I see them amount to getting an environment I can work with (block file systems are definitely out), and then learning to 'think' in forth. 07:28:35 I see that retro is somewhat different in its core functions. 07:30:33 I rather let crc answer you question since he wrote retro 07:31:19 s/you/your 07:35:37 Being that he is idle and has been for over half a day, is there anything you can reveal to me in this line with whatever accuracy you can? 07:36:36 he should be around later today, he usually is. 07:37:24 depends on what you want to know. My retro is very limited. 07:38:17 unless you are in a rush, I would suggest that you wait to talk to crc. 07:41:24 I don't want to give you erroneous info 07:44:18 zzing are you writing an OS? 07:53:21 erider: Eventually yes 07:53:38 It is probably going to be a 6502 or similar chip 07:55:05 * crc is at work, but will try to answer questions as I have time 07:55:53 I believe the 65816 is the likely choice of chip I will use later on. 07:56:11 But the question now is I want to learn some forth to understand the language 07:56:30 I can come up with problems to solve, either euler problems or another problem I had in mind. 07:56:43 The question is - will retro be a good thing to use for it. 07:56:48 retro is not a conventional forth 07:56:53 I noticed 07:56:59 One thing I noticed that is a little different if 'syntax' 07:57:39 Is it possible to make a set of words that work with the if ... ; then ... ; 'syntax'? 08:01:45 yes: 08:01:45 : if ( R: xy- C: -a ) ` 0 13 , here 0 , ; compile-only 08:01:45 : then ( R: - C: a- ) here swap ! ; compile-only 08:01:56 that'll let you do things: 08:01:57 : foo 1 = if 2 putn ;; then 3 putn ; 08:02:40 okay, it seems obvious to me that it is flexible enough, but I do not understand much of what you just typed. What would be a good way of learning retro? 08:02:47 I can always modify it later 08:04:44 there's no tutorial, but the 11.0 beta has pretty good docs and a fair number of examples 08:06:08 It compiles very quickly :p 08:08:39 retro's speed is mostly dependent on the vm you use 08:09:22 I run benchmarks occasionally and post the results to my blog. 08:09:25 Am I right in assuming that the ngaro vm is modelled on a near real processor? 08:10:10 it was originally intended to be implemented in an fpga (though the i/o handling has changed since the original prototypes) 08:10:23 nice 08:10:32 I was thinking on buying DE1 at some point :p 08:11:23 Does this: http://rx-core.org/docs/ describe 10 or 11? 08:11:27 11 08:11:41 ok, it looks like something I can play around with 09:24:24 Is there a way to see the definition of a word? 10:37:19 --- quit: erider (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13:00:20 in the 11.0 tarball, there's a file named autopsy.rx; if this is loaded you can decompile words 13:01:14 assuming 11.0: 13:01:14 ./retro --with examples/autopsy.rx 13:01:17 should work 13:01:24 or: 13:01:24 include examples/autopsy.rx 13:01:28 from a running instance 13:01:55 then you can use: see wordname 13:02:55 the default view shows memory locations as boxes; there's a vertical form as well: 13:02:55 vertical on 13:02:55 see wordname 13:03:09 the vertical mode can be toggled on and off as desired 14:30:41 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@pool-108-3-149-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #retro 14:30:43 --- quit: erider (Changing host) 14:30:43 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 14:31:25 hi 18:15:15 --- quit: zzing (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 18:15:36 --- quit: erider (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:16:55 --- join: zzing (~zzing@CPE0024369fd268-CM0012254195d6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #retro 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/11.04.30