00:00:00 --- log: started retro/11.01.25 06:20:11 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 06:48:29 --- join: aisa (~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #retro 08:34:18 crc: do most of the environments you use for retro work with jpico understand $TERM? 08:34:28 and do you still need nano some places? 08:44:29 Donation link in topic leads to WePay's generic front page. The link at retroforth.org works properly. 08:50:30 --- topic: set to 'Retro Language | http://retroforth.org | Logs @ http://bit.ly/ayTmLI | Release 10.7.5 @ http://bit.ly/f3b1n6 | Fossil Repo @ http://rx-core.org | Corpse Blog @ http://rx-core.org/dev/corpse | Forums @ http://forthcommunity.com | Donations @ https://www.wepay.com/donate/179527' by crc 08:51:10 I think the systems I use jpico on understand $TERM 08:51:25 nano is no longer neccessary 08:53:18 k, thanks. I'm looking at a recent clone of unstable to come up with a few useful joe macros. 08:57:35 no problem 09:09:40 crc: that reminds me -- i updated the old vim syntax file for retro 11 09:09:59 it's still a bit flakey in places though pretty usable overall 09:18:30 please send it to me :) 09:20:28 will do when i get home from work -- i haven't got the latest to hand 09:21:56 thanks 09:49:57 --- quit: roarde (Quit: Leaving.) 09:50:08 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 10:17:39 --- quit: roarde (Quit: Leaving.) 10:17:57 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 10:41:15 --- quit: roarde (Quit: Leaving.) 10:41:29 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 10:46:33 --- quit: roarde (Quit: Leaving.) 10:46:46 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 10:48:31 --- quit: roarde (Client Quit) 10:48:53 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 10:57:28 crc: i've e-mailed you the syntax file (retro.vim) 11:12:48 --- join: Mat2 (5b4085ac@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.64.133.172) joined #retro 11:12:58 hello everyone 11:15:05 hi Mat2 11:15:36 hi, what's going on ? 11:16:09 I'm searching about some more information about the new features of retro 11 11:19:16 great 11:19:21 i'm well thanks, not much happening here though 11:19:30 yourself? 11:19:47 can't let you go without asking for a link/pointer to what you're doing, Mat2 11:21:19 Mat2: reading the blog is the best bet 11:22:01 at current working on an improved version of my vm design for my new job 11:22:24 and it's still protected information, right? 11:22:40 the parallel processing engine, yes 11:23:08 but the vm itself will be under a BSD licence 11:23:58 Ah. Hope you'll post when that happens (forthcommunity?). 11:24:23 yes 11:26:36 possibly I add a retroforth port to it but I want to wait after release 11 is out 11:26:56 mmm 11:27:01 a virtual machine? 11:27:15 You've read that 11 won't be out until late part of the year? 11:27:37 mat2: a retro vm or something else? 11:28:05 * oPless wonders where this blog is 11:28:33 * oPless uncrosses eyes 11:28:34 it's a completely different vm design 11:28:39 url? :) 11:28:47 I was suggesting that Mat2 look at crc's corpse blog as a good start for changes to Retro 11. 11:29:07 http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/avm 11:29:22 yeah, roarde, hence the uncrossing of eyes :) 11:29:32 the new sources will be placed there 11:30:34 for porting retroforth, it's like a complete rewrite from scratch 11:30:43 nice :) 11:31:07 how big is the x86 core, stripped etc? 11:31:27 we should look at AVM, not nAvm? 11:32:36 look at both because both are predescents to the new design 11:32:50 * oPless boggles at the YYYY-DD-MM date format 11:33:57 oPless: something about 32 kb 11:35:19 for 64 bit cpu's 76 kb 11:38:18 ok, closures, prefix handling, first class functions - retroforth 11 is factor lite 11:38:54 or toka meets forth 11:39:02 nice :) 11:39:16 looking at 11, I wonder if it's met forth yet 11:39:50 It's much improved and the right direction, so that is not a complaint. 11:40:00 compliant with what? 11:40:55 Right now, I find more forth-like semantics easier to grasp, but can see that I'll come to prefer the later, Retro-11 versions after I learn and use it for a while. 11:43:01 one thing is missing: the equivalence of code and data 11:44:58 but that wouldn't be forth alike 11:46:31 I don't think being like forth is a goal, except to keep what works well. 11:47:09 'being like forth' presumably means close to the standard / figForth? 11:48:26 cfa: well, it's not a matter of which words are used so much as traditional "forth grammar", etc. 11:48:43 right, but my point is that there are multiple forths 11:48:57 just consider word immediacy vs. the dual-wordlist model 11:49:23 i should add -- and crc can express this better -- that the changes in retro 11 are still very 'forth-like' if you care to look at the internals 11:49:40 good point. I refer to what might be called "traditional" forth or "level (erm . . . ) 2" 11:49:56 yep, I got the point about the internals. 11:50:28 traditional forth will be ansi forth for most users, I suggest 11:50:38 Looking at the internals as I code works for me right now; the older words do this better. 11:50:43 quotes are compiled in place (after a jump instruction if you're compiling already) 11:51:15 Mat2: heh. I'm much more traditional than that. 11:52:00 I can look ahead and see that I'll prefer "Retro" to "retroforth" before long. 11:52:05 Just not now. 11:52:17 ok than fig forth :) 11:52:26 roarde: by 'retroforth' do you mean pre 10.x? 11:53:30 I didn't come in til 10.2 or so, so =< 10.7.2 would do 11:53:37 okay 11:53:52 Do have plans for machine-specific Retro, tho. 11:54:05 you do? 11:55:18 Right. Build assemble ngaro3 for hardware, then start coding "up": add more core words directly to machine-specific binary, but only as it's worthwhile. 11:55:55 Main reason is for new hardware or emulations where none of the current vm languages are available. 11:56:14 so you'd presumably have the metacompiler target your machine rather than generating an image? 11:56:22 well, i think C is quite a safe bet no? 11:56:30 Retro can be the machine's second language, dipswitches being the first. 11:56:53 cfa: beyond 10.x I'm strongly deemphasizing the forth part of things 11:56:57 what sort of hardware are you talking about? 11:57:00 crc: oh really? 11:57:01 I'm thinking mostly of machines that haven't a c compiler. 11:57:06 crc: could you elaborate? 11:57:12 my new vm incorporate a trace compiler so sequences of vm code can be compiled to native code instructions, extending the instruction set at runtime 11:57:44 adopting more standard terminology in documentation, noting only that forth is an influence, as opposed to retro being considered a forth 11:57:59 I use this for simulation purposes 11:58:57 crc: so what direction do you envisage retro taking? 11:59:18 So there might be a time when forth fans will write a forth for Retro? 12:00:02 ngaro in hardware would be very MISC like, there exist some open source projects which would fit well with some minor changes like the B16 cpu 12:01:21 cfa: I'm slowly adopting higher-level concepts, fleshing things out, trying to create a more practical language 12:02:03 retro will remain forth-like, but keeping compatibility with various forth dialects is not a goal 12:02:17 has it ever been a goal though? 12:02:55 cfa: in the 9.x branch, we eventually had pretty good compliance with ANS as an option 12:03:04 quartus'? 12:03:09 correct 12:04:06 so presumably it's not an issue if @ and ! were to be dropped altogether -- whereas before that core wordset was common across forths? 12:04:10 roarde: it should be possible to write a more traditional forth in retro 12:08:38 possibly it's only a question about the meta-language fashion and the effort for implementing it 12:09:14 [i just wrote this separately to crc, but i'll repeated here:] i guess i look(ed) at the recent changes as DSL abstractions upon a forth base rather than the germs of a new (type of) language. 12:09:25 repeat here* 13:00:38 ciao 13:00:45 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 13:24:04 --- quit: roarde (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:34:12 --- quit: aisa (Quit: aisa) 14:47:58 https://gist.github.com/795880 14:48:32 any suggestions for a better name than ?case for this? 14:53:54 perl uses given/when for its switch statements 14:54:03 'when' might be nice 14:58:00 --- join: aisa (~aisa@50.sub-69-96-209.myvzw.com) joined #retro 15:06:43 cfa: commited to repo as 'when' 15:09:57 thanks, this looks great 15:10:21 each@ has a very clean definition now 15:10:45 (and char, obj, etc.) 15:53:41 --- quit: aisa (Quit: aisa) 16:24:42 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 16:56:15 --- join: aisa (~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) joined #retro 18:16:03 --- quit: roarde (Quit: Leaving.) 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/11.01.25