00:00:00 --- log: started retro/10.10.22 03:47:51 --- quit: foucist (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:48:52 --- join: foucist (~foucist@ps14150.dreamhost.com) joined #retro 03:48:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +v foucist 16:28:13 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 16:40:21 hello 16:42:15 hi erider 16:42:25 what's new? 16:42:41 nothing much for the moment 16:43:12 I am trying to stay focus :) 16:43:33 crc: what is new with you? How have you been feeling 16:44:00 I've been sick for most of the last two weeks; but am starting to feel better 16:44:56 I am continuing work on retro, and spending some time cleaning up the code for corpse 16:45:54 crc: I am glad that you are starting to feel better and corpse? 16:46:38 I wrote a blog software in retro; the software is named corpse. see http://rx-core.org/dev/corpse 17:01:31 is it dead? 17:01:35 why a corpse? :P 17:02:07 a pun on the opinon that forth is a dead or dying language :) 17:18:08 crc: is it a client app or server app 17:18:29 erider: server side 17:19:23 article 12 showed the source (sans code for posting new articles): http://rx-core.org/dev/corpse/article/12 17:20:05 since then, I've moved most of the html and css to external templates, making the code much more complete 17:21:49 crc: so it is a service? 17:22:22 no 17:22:43 it's a server side application, but not a service 17:22:48 where do you have it 17:22:52 it exposes no api 17:23:04 it's running on one of my servers 17:23:23 ah it is still in testing and coding phase 17:24:34 I have no plans to host it for others; I add features as I need to 17:25:16 there'll eventually be a full release, once we're closer a stable retro11 system (next year) 17:27:42 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:27:43 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:28:12 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:28:12 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:28:39 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:28:39 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:28:52 crc: so you are using it for yourself? 17:28:59 yes 17:29:05 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:29:06 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:29:33 --- join: ncv (~neceve@89.123.62.129) joined #retro 17:29:34 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:30:02 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:30:03 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:30:29 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:30:30 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:30:33 crc: ah ok 17:30:58 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:30:59 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:31:25 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:31:26 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:31:54 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:31:54 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:32:23 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:32:23 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:32:48 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:32:48 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:33:15 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:33:16 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:33:44 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:33:44 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:34:08 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:34:09 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:34:37 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:34:38 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:34:56 crc: so what is your home usages for 17:35:03 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:35:03 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:35:22 home usages for retro? 17:35:30 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:35:30 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:35:45 small games and things for my kids, and the occasional small tool that I want/need mostly 17:35:55 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:35:56 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:36:23 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:36:24 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:36:50 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:36:50 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:37:14 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:37:15 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:37:41 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:37:41 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:38:05 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:38:06 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:38:33 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:38:33 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:38:58 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:38:59 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:39:28 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:39:28 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:39:56 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:39:56 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:40:20 crc: no corpse 17:40:21 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:40:22 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:40:48 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:40:49 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:41:03 erider: the core code for corpse is done and working well, no need to hack it further at this point 17:41:16 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:41:17 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:41:46 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:41:47 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:42:12 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:42:13 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:42:39 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:42:39 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:43:05 crc: but you said that it is just for your usages 17:43:06 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:43:06 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:43:31 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:43:32 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:43:58 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:43:59 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:44:21 erider: yes. because it relies on a constantly changing retro implementation. 17:44:25 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:44:26 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:44:55 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:44:55 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:45:21 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:45:22 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:45:52 --- 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17:50:00 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:50:29 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:50:29 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:50:58 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:50:59 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:51:25 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:51:25 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:51:53 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:51:53 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:52:09 publishing corpse now would be a potential support headache - and I have too many other things going on for that :) 17:52:18 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:52:19 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:52:48 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:52:49 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:53:17 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:53:18 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:53:44 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:53:45 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:54:13 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:54:14 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:54:38 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:54:39 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:55:05 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:55:06 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:55:32 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:55:33 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:55:58 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:55:59 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:56:24 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:56:25 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:56:50 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:56:50 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:57:15 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:57:15 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:57:42 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:57:43 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:58:08 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:58:09 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:58:37 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:58:37 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:59:03 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 17:59:04 --- quit: ncv (Excess Flood) 17:59:30 --- join: ncv (~neceve@89.123.62.129) joined #retro 17:59:36 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 17:59:36 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 21:07:50 ok now I'm thinking about evolving interfaces 21:08:25 you could make fonts evolve, say 21:09:13 docl: yeah 21:09:31 there's even evolved keyboard maps 21:09:38 better than dvorak heh 21:09:51 could evolve it to your own criteria etc 21:10:37 docl: how about evolving word names in forth? 21:10:46 that's one thing I was considering 21:11:07 randomly mutate the names... but would that really work? 21:12:00 what would you do, randomly substitute dictionary words? 21:12:37 maybe start with totally random letters and let them evolve into whatever works with the user the best 21:12:40 docl: maybe not purely random, maybe brainstorm a number of alternate naming schemes 21:13:05 or a number of alternate words for each dictionary word 21:13:29 well i guess that's not so much evolving as it is more about split testing 21:13:48 the main prob is how to test it for readability etc 21:14:15 ideally it would be regular non-coders or something like that 21:14:16 there's not really a way other than having the person read it, is there? 21:14:38 well a forth coder would get too comfortable with certain names etc 21:15:04 well same for any language 21:15:17 each language has it's own unique vocab that doesn't really make any sense until you actually know it 21:15:27 and then after that it's normal to you 21:15:52 here's a thought. make a game. start with random character strings and have the programmer deduce the name as they go, attempting to select it into real words that make sense. 21:16:13 hmm interesting concept, making a game out of it 21:18:54 altho i don't see how random strings + deducing the name .. 21:19:17 docl: like you're saying show some code as gibberish and then asking the programmer to name certain parts based on the context as he understands it? 21:19:20 er deduce a good name based on its behavior 21:19:30 yeah 21:19:32 yeah i dunno, that's a pretty tough one, unless you tested it multiple ways 21:19:40 you might need it to be a restricted set of words 21:19:53 you don't want to get stuck in a sub-optimal naming scheme 21:20:00 hmm 21:20:08 so would have to come at it from multiple ways over multiple times 21:20:20 every time you make a mistake, it mutates the word closest to what you typed 21:20:30 a synonym or some such 21:20:59 hmm 21:21:19 synonyms are real tough, most synonyms aren't really written down in a thesaurus 21:21:22 lots of coding words that is 21:21:51 even stuff like 'tag' 'key could be synonyms in coding context but a thesaurus would never tell you 21:22:04 true 21:22:26 almost would have to have a coding corpus 21:22:31 and grab the words from that 21:23:05 yeah. thesaurus might make more sense for a textbook or sales letter. 21:24:00 well we can generate our own thesaurus perhaps from coding texts/source code/ etc 21:24:31 docl: anyways i love the idea of a game-like interface 21:25:13 it's called interactive evolutionary computation btw 21:25:21 when humans are included into the loop 21:25:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_evolutionary_computation 21:26:43 ah, problems with user fatigue 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/10.10.22