00:00:00 --- log: started retro/10.08.07
07:03:24 --- join: docl (~luke@97-120-241-117.ptld.qwest.net) joined #retro
08:22:33 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:24:31 --- join: crc (~charlesch@184.77.185.20) joined #retro
09:13:31 <docl> think I've found a bug, give me a minute to reproduce
09:14:19 <docl> chain: foo : bar ; ;chain with foo foo words %% words
09:14:37 <docl> note that this does not cause the issue: 
09:14:38 <docl> chain: foo : bar ; ;chain with foo foo %% words
09:14:56 <docl> I'm guessing it is something about <notfound>
10:10:52 --- quit: SimonRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
10:17:06 --- join: SimonRC (~sc@fof.durge.org) joined #retro
11:34:42 <crc> docl: thanks, looking into it
11:35:27 <crc> possibly I should make using the name act the same as invoking 'with'
12:33:06 <crc> docl: I pushed a patch that should fix the bug you found; please let me know if it seems satisfactory
12:34:35 --- join: Mat2 (4d177cf6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.23.124.246) joined #retro
12:34:41 <Mat2> hello
12:34:43 <crc> hi
12:35:17 <Mat2> hi, what's goin on ?
12:35:30 <crc> reworking vocabulary support in retro at the moment
12:36:15 <Mat2> just finishing my diploma thesis
12:36:32 <crc> cool
12:40:13 <Mat2> what is the status of your native port (retro 10), the source i've seen in the git repro long ago ?
12:53:52 <Mat2> ciao
12:53:57 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed)
12:58:39 --- quit: docl (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
13:35:40 --- join: docl (~luke@97-120-241-117.ptld.qwest.net) joined #retro
13:46:39 <crc> wb docl 
14:10:48 <docl> hi crc
15:20:04 --- quit: docl (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
15:22:05 --- join: docl (~luke@97-120-241-117.ptld.qwest.net) joined #retro
15:25:23 --- quit: SimonRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
15:40:24 --- join: SimonRC (~sc@fof.durge.org) joined #retro
16:17:23 --- quit: docl (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:02:29 --- join: docl (~luke@97-120-241-117.ptld.qwest.net) joined #retro
19:46:58 <foucist> howdy folks
19:47:11 <foucist> docl: how's life?
19:47:18 <docl> hi foucist 
19:47:21 <docl> doing pretty good
19:47:39 <foucist> cool
19:47:48 <foucist> what are you doing for work again? i forget
19:47:59 <docl> tech support
19:48:15 <docl> and for a hobby I've been a crynics advocate
19:48:15 <foucist> ah cool
19:48:50 <docl> http://lesswrong.com/user/lsparrish/submitted/
19:49:24 <docl> Less Wrong is really cool, not just for the cryonics stuff.
19:52:41 <docl> And of course I've been doing a little forth here and there. Messing with linked lists and dictionaries mostly.
19:53:58 <docl> I've also looked into some ruby. Some really nice syntax stuff there.
19:54:35 <foucist> yeah i came across lesswrong.com recently a couple weeks ago
19:55:08 <foucist> reading the stuff by the main guy
19:55:16 <foucist> ezekielaizajoadk or whatever his name is
19:55:16 <foucist> heh
19:55:33 <docl> heh, most people just abbreviate to EY
19:55:42 <docl> eliezar yudkowsky
19:55:47 <docl> good writer
19:56:04 <docl> possibly a bit arrogant, but then aren't we all?
19:56:45 <foucist> well AI-interested people have a certain amount of hubris
19:56:51 <foucist> so they probably find themselves in his writing
19:56:52 <docl> it's a nerdtopia. like wikipedia, or say tvtropes.
19:59:08 <docl> rationality for the win :)
19:59:49 <foucist> yep
20:00:22 <foucist> EY is a bit like richard dawkins as well, anti-religious
20:00:26 <foucist> thought you were religious :P
20:00:38 <docl> I'm more agnostic these days.
20:00:51 <foucist> cool
20:02:03 <foucist> congrats
20:02:24 <docl> I don't particularly dislike God, I'm just a tad skeptical that He happens to exist as a point of fact.
20:03:02 <foucist> it's not easy going for the path of rationality, rejecting everything that people around you might assume or accept about reality etc
20:03:13 <foucist> challenging the things that are commonly held
20:03:57 <foucist> i pretty much stopped arguing with anyone back when i was 23 
20:04:02 <foucist> realized it was pointless heh
20:04:26 <foucist> understanding anything ourselves is so complicated
20:04:33 <foucist> it's really hard to even convey that properly to anyone else
20:04:47 <foucist> and any serious argument would require that sort of background information
20:04:50 <docl> yeah. I naturally dislike confrontation, but when I know it is such a sensitive subject I'm even more guarded.
20:05:52 <docl> I had a job as a therapy tech for people with developmental disabilities. we were taught to recognize escalation, and what to do about it.
20:06:00 <docl> it's a kind of interesting hack really.
20:06:19 <foucist> huh, cool
20:06:23 <docl> there's something called a "crisis cycle" which has several stages...
20:06:30 <docl> 1. trigger
20:06:34 <docl> 2. escalation
20:06:39 <docl> 3. crisis
20:06:45 <docl> 4. de-escalarion
20:06:55 <docl> s/r/t
20:06:56 <foucist> and everyone of us probably has that as well
20:07:04 <docl> 5. post-crisis
20:07:07 <docl> exactly
20:07:31 <docl> there's things that trigger the crisis cycle for everyone
20:07:46 <docl> escalation is what happens if the trigger isn't removed
20:08:00 <docl> er maybe the term was stimulus instead of trigger. same idea.
20:08:31 <foucist> so what's the hack? remove the stimulus or pre-empt the escalation somehow?
20:08:40 <docl> anyway, if you get to the escalation step the action to take is set limits and offer choices
20:08:54 <foucist> hmm
20:09:22 <docl> actually, stage 0 is baseline, forgot that. you want to keep the person at baseline if possible.
20:10:11 <docl> people in the baseline state are more open minded, creative, and willing to learn 
20:10:19 <foucist> right
20:10:30 <foucist> till you bring up a touchy subject like religion ;)
20:10:31 <docl> there's a sort of arc, with crisis at the top
20:10:34 <docl> exactly
20:10:42 <docl> that's a trigger
20:11:01 <foucist> so what's an example of setting limits and offering choices
20:11:07 <docl> once the person is in the crisis state they won't listen no matter what you tell them.
20:11:44 <docl> ok so let me conjure a scenario first
20:13:19 <docl> grr, can't think of one
20:13:50 <foucist> :P
20:14:21 <docl> I must be too escalated :P
20:17:47 <foucist> heh
20:17:56 <foucist> don't worry i'm super tired
20:18:04 <foucist> been working too much lately building a house heh
20:18:14 <foucist> and dealing with some mega carpal tunnel :(
20:18:23 <docl> darn
20:18:32 <docl> where you located these days?
20:18:35 <foucist> something with the gripping of things while working is giving me major CTS
20:18:41 <foucist> i'm in campbell river, vancouver island, canada :P
20:18:55 <foucist> came back to help my dad on his first house as a home builder
20:18:58 <docl> cool
20:20:14 <docl> http://healthcare.utah.edu/home/resources/Summer2007_CrisisCycle.pdf
20:24:37 <foucist> ah
20:27:53 <docl> how is your web biz going?
20:28:08 <foucist> so so
20:28:19 <foucist> honestly, i want to make a bunch of websites/webapps
20:28:33 <foucist> useful things
20:28:39 <foucist> maybe subscription services
20:28:48 <foucist> haven't really completed one though he :P
20:28:49 <foucist> heh*
20:28:58 <foucist> still the same ole procrastinator
20:29:20 <docl> yeah, seems a lot of us are like that
20:29:32 <docl> on lesswrong they call it akrasia
20:31:25 <foucist> yeah i noticed that term 
20:32:47 <docl> yay, fancier word for what's wrong with me :)
20:33:18 <docl> seems like a lot of the battle is settling on one specific thing that you want to do.
20:34:04 <foucist> honestly i'll never settle on one specific thing
20:34:06 <foucist> never ever
20:34:06 <foucist> :P
20:34:23 <docl> hahaha
20:35:55 <docl> so, someone is working on a vaccine for stress
20:36:01 <docl> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/07/ff_stress_cure/all/1
20:36:51 <docl> basically it's a modified herpes virus that is set to go off when you are stressed, and releases neuroprotectants.
20:38:52 <foucist> hmm
20:39:01 <foucist> there's a lot of different stress hormones though
20:39:30 <foucist> did you know stretch marks are caused by glucocorticoids (a stress hormone) that intereferes with skin formation
20:39:49 <docl> iiinteresting.
20:39:56 <foucist> green tea is aparently quite effective at reducing glucocorticoids
20:40:37 <foucist> green tea pills for your pregnant missus.. or she'll be getting ripped
20:43:58 <docl> the article mentions glucocorticoids. I guess that is a pretty important category of stress hormones.
20:45:45 <docl> the article also talks about low status as a main cause of stress. I've been trying to work on my status aspects a bit.
20:46:08 <docl> my wife is younger, which I suspect helps. she'd probably walk all over me otherwise.
20:46:43 <docl> and I have a fairly laid back employer (met him through cryonics, which is pretty cool)
20:47:26 <docl> but it is still a call center job. there is a randomness element involved, and sometimes the customers are pretty stressed.
20:51:44 <foucist> do you feel stressed?
20:52:03 <docl> at times.
20:52:13 <docl> this week, definitely
20:52:18 <foucist> richer people are happier, especially if they're richer than their neighbors/peers
20:52:32 <docl> I've been moving to a nicer neighborhood.
20:52:48 <foucist> cool
20:52:48 <docl> moving is stressful. living in a nicer neighborhood should reduce that somewhat.
20:53:01 <docl> also it's slightly lower rent
20:53:17 <docl> the street names around it are all classy sounding
20:53:35 <docl> oxford, nob hill, superior, and high street.
20:56:27 <docl> I don't know, but I suspect that would have a subtle status boosting effect
20:56:43 <docl> like kids with certain names are more likely to be successful
20:57:06 <docl> I suppose I could have my name changed, if I want to go to extremes :P
20:58:06 <foucist> :P
20:58:37 <docl> http://www.goodtoknow.co.uk/family/200016/Successful-boys--names
20:58:42 <docl> apparently yours is a top name
20:59:20 <docl> wonder if there's a study behind that list
20:59:38 <foucist> that might be more for uk
20:59:41 <foucist> than usa
20:59:45 <foucist> itvaries regionally
20:59:51 <foucist> and annually
20:59:55 <foucist> the popularity of names
21:00:02 <foucist> well, at least for baby names
21:00:48 <docl> hmm. I've heard the color red causes teams to win at basketball. perhaps I should start wearing red. (not aboard a starship, however.)
21:02:42 <foucist> why not?
21:03:03 <foucist> anyways gonna crash
21:03:04 <foucist> good night
21:03:59 <docl> ok
21:04:02 <docl> see ya later
21:36:01 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
21:36:22 --- join: crc (~charlesch@184.77.185.20) joined #retro
23:41:41 --- quit: docl (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/10.08.07