00:00:00 --- log: started retro/10.05.06
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08:14:19 <docl> good morning
08:14:34 * docl has only a few minutes before work
08:18:38 <docl> I wonder if a linked list of cells is even a good idea for tables?
08:20:22 <docl> a table tends to always have a 2d structure anyway...
08:21:25 <docl> those are easy to generate, not too different from a blockfile.
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17:26:04 <erider> hi guys 
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17:56:24 <docl> howdy
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18:35:17 <docl> hi sixforty 
18:36:30 <sixforty> hi, docl. not seeing much new on forthcommunity. I'd post, but it'd be bulk and crap right now
18:36:45 <docl> hey it's all good
18:37:18 <docl> I've been playing with tables
18:39:00 <docl> I should post something about that.
18:57:04 <docl> here we go: http://www.forthcommunity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=59
18:57:29 <docl> essentially it is just my last paste with some comments
19:07:15 <sixforty> can't follow it yet, but I like the style. clear, helpful, but not wordy
19:10:03 <docl> :)
19:11:06 <sixforty> I've mentioned jumping into forth at jones. Spent too much time on OS config, and will go straight to retro. Soon now.
19:13:55 <docl> crc's prefixes are really cool to use now.
19:16:39 <sixforty> well, dang . ..
19:16:54 <sixforty> was looking for the red icons to pick out new posts
19:17:17 <sixforty> turns out I wasn't being logged in. now see several
19:18:59 <docl> there were some spammers a while back, but I got rid of them.
19:22:01 <sixforty> you've heard about the successful attack on Network Solutions, and thus GreenArrays?
19:22:54 <sixforty> Greg Bailey's would be open to a quick way to have forth serve pages right about now.
19:23:45 <docl> no, I hadn't heard
19:23:46 <sixforty> I'm sure it'd have to be done via a script language available on a windows server
19:23:51 <docl> what happened?
19:24:25 <sixforty> http://greenarraychips.com/blog1/   it's been cleaned, ignore warnings you may get from ff/google
19:24:50 <sixforty> malware was served :(
19:26:06 <sixforty> he's thinking forth server, I'm thinking retro .net or so in the interim
19:27:08 <sixforty> a way of semi-securing one's own site on a compromised server
19:27:31 <sixforty> or at least fail to serve if while control has been lost
19:27:59 <docl> hmm
19:28:24 <docl> how would he protect if network solutions is the problem? isn't that at the domain name level?
19:29:26 <docl> annoying how there is no "ignore warnings for this page" option in firefox.
19:29:33 <sixforty> check remotely at intervals. Store pages as colorForth, use cf2html. retro to link it to server.
19:29:46 <sixforty> it's there, but it's tiny. look again
19:30:28 <sixforty> check remotely. if the page served doesn't match what you wrote, repoint the dns to a non-address until resolved
19:31:55 <sixforty> oh. you mean store an exception so that the warning won't reappear?
19:32:54 <erider> hi sixforty 
19:33:08 <sixforty> evenin, erider
19:33:14 <docl> not sure I follow, can't hackers just repoint the domain to their own website that serves malware?
19:33:50 <docl> the victim's computer would never reach the server in that case, so having the site hosted in forth wouldn't make a difference...
19:33:57 <sixforty> only change you have to make is to get dns seperately from hosting. good policy anyway
19:34:00 <erider> sure a redirection can happen 
19:34:22 <docl> ahh, so their hosting was hacked?
19:34:28 <sixforty> right.
19:34:44 <sixforty> they've no control over that, so have to take other measures
19:35:04 <sixforty> course, computer cowboys et al have never heard of unix
19:35:18 <sixforty> not since '83, anyway
19:35:37 <docl> yeah there's always linux hosting. I pay like $3.99 a month for mine.
19:36:05 <sixforty> would help, won't solve everything.
19:36:28 <sixforty> greg's right, forth would be much better, but self-hosting is a long way off for them
19:38:12 <sixforty> arrayForth would be very much better, as pages would be stored in what would appear binary form until the moment they're sent across the wire
19:38:56 <sixforty> assuming they shannon-coded the text instead of using ascii (you can forget utf there for now, too)
19:39:34 <docl> hey there's always encryption if security is what you want
19:40:29 <sixforty> how's that done on a hosted site?
19:41:35 <sixforty> it's been 10 years since I posted a web page
19:42:14 <docl> hmm. I'm thinking of ssl, but that isn't storage it is communication.
19:42:23 <docl> pgp does encryption for storage
19:42:46 <sixforty> right, and the ssl and more had to be gotten around for them to break in in the first place ;-)
19:42:56 <docl> you could use an encrypted database to store the info
19:43:50 <docl> http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/see.html
19:44:17 <docl> I'm a big fan of sqlite these days
19:45:02 <sixforty> hasn't someone done retro on ruby?
19:45:50 <sixforty> and turns out Network Solutions is unix
19:46:19 <docl> I don't think there's a ruby implementation yet
19:47:05 <docl> the biggest problem is that security is generally so darned inconvenient
19:47:14 <sixforty> nope, it's unix _or_ windows. betcha they chose windows
19:47:17 <docl> who wants to remember a dozen strong passphrases?
19:47:21 <docl> haha
19:47:26 <docl> probably
19:48:10 <sixforty> retro in : php, python, .net, perl?
19:48:17 <docl> windows is very easy to get frustrated with the security features to the point where you just turn it all off.
19:48:28 <docl> there's a .net version
19:49:00 <sixforty> MySQL is an option with NS unix hosting --- no, wait, it's standard
19:49:27 <sixforty> both have cron jobs
19:51:36 <sixforty> heard from crc tonight?
19:55:58 <docl> not so far
19:56:23 <docl> I think he was sick last night :(
19:56:52 <sixforty> sorry to hear it
20:05:56 <erider> hey how hard is it to create a webpage in flash 
20:09:51 <sixforty> erider: I've heard it's easy. Until you get to the part where six stomps on you and burns the remainder.
20:10:18 <sixforty> put another way, why would you?
20:11:24 <erider> My friend wants picture show 
20:11:59 <docl> I've never tried to learn flash.
20:12:02 <sixforty> motion video or slideshow?
20:12:13 <erider> both 
20:12:33 <erider> I am thinking this can be done in ruby rails? 
20:12:51 <docl> likely
20:12:52 <sixforty> is copyrighted material involved?
20:13:08 <erider> no 
20:13:55 <sixforty> you can set a timer in html for the slideshow, and just serve the mp4 or whatever for the vids
20:14:07 <erider> She is trying to promote her salon and sale panties and bras 
20:17:38 <sixforty> there are several ways to do this, but if you're going to use flash, use an open version.
20:17:59 * sixforty is a veteran of the six-year pdfspec.pdf war
20:18:40 <erider> sixforty: whats available 
20:19:29 <sixforty> can be done in html. others, I'm unfamiliar with but know at least a few will work
20:20:20 <sixforty> usual reason for using flash is either the author's familiar with it, or copyright holders are under the impression that flash protects their property
20:21:38 <sixforty> if you'll take a deeper look at the tools you're already familiar with, you'll probably find two or three options among them.
20:22:42 <sixforty> erider: what OS you have, what OS is server?
20:23:01 <erider> linux 
20:23:09 <sixforty> distro?
20:23:19 <sixforty> yours
20:24:14 <erider> its on linode 
20:24:58 * sixforty nods. What specific OS will you be using to create the pages?
20:25:40 <erider> I am not sure what OS it is, 
20:25:53 <erider> meaning distro 
20:26:17 <sixforty> ah. Ubuntu, Mint, SuSe, slack . . .
20:26:44 <erider> nah its not those 
20:27:09 <erider> I have to look at the list of linodes again 
20:27:13 <erider> hold one 
20:27:33 <sixforty> What linux are you running on your computer?
20:28:41 <docl> archlinux is what I run. on colinux, on windows 7 at the moment.
20:29:14 <erider> I think it is CentOS 5.3
20:35:40 <sixforty> see if  http://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/i686/mtasc/    helps
20:41:09 <sixforty> http://mtasc.org/  has a version for windows
20:42:33 <sixforty> in any case, check to be sure gnash can play what you write. if not, you're stuck with whatever changes @d0be wants to make from now on.
20:53:02 <docl> any questions about the table code?
20:54:43 * docl is revising it now
20:55:05 <docl> one thing I am planning to add is arrow-key support for ijkl
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