00:00:00 --- log: started retro/10.03.27
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07:24:13 <random100> hi
07:25:01 <random100> is there a difference between 'call' and '<call>' ?
07:25:10 <random100> (using the 'see-debugger')
07:51:22 <docl> I don't think there is
07:52:03 <docl> I think the brackets signify that it is implicit rather than having a "call" opcode
08:22:39 <random100> ok
08:23:32 <random100> is there any way to add "custom-content" to a word ?
08:23:38 <random100> like
08:24:11 <random100> s" good-word" judgedword: 2 2 + . ;
08:24:30 <random100> judgedword: foo 2 2 + . ;
08:24:31 <random100> so
08:24:47 <random100> foo "results in printing" 4
08:25:18 <random100> but using " ' foo judgement " prints "good-word"
08:28:37 * random100 gives up
08:28:38 <random100> bye
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10:13:02 <docl> It is possible to add custom content. vectors, for example
10:13:58 <docl> : foo s" first word" ; here ] s" different word" ; is foo foo type
10:15:43 <docl> what this does is replace the two nops at the beginning of foo with a jump to the "here" value that starts the anonymous word that gives the string "different word"
10:18:35 <docl> : judge ['] foo tuck =if ." good-word" drop ;then .word ;
10:19:37 <docl> that would check if the passed value is foo's xt
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11:27:44 <random100> how could I get ":  foo: create ['] .word reclass ` [ 0 , 0 , someWord ;" to compile for example "foo: bar 2 2 + . ;" to the same as ": bar 2 2 + . ;" *plus additional data added by "someWord" at the back* ?
11:28:54 <random100> if "foo:" is defined the way above, someWord is directly executed and the data is not appended, but "in front of the code"
11:33:04 <random100> return-stack magic ?
11:59:27 <crc> random100: <call> is implicit (new in 10.5); whereas 'call' is explicit (with the call opcode preceeding the address)
11:59:39 <random100> crc, ah :)
12:00:07 <crc> 10.5 has vm-level support for direct threading, which is shown as <call> in the decompiler
12:00:10 <random100> : foo 2 . ;    : bar ['] foo push later 3 . ;
12:00:21 <random100> why is the result "2 3" ??
12:01:00 <random100> crc, ok, then it's not the source of my problems
12:01:20 <crc> random100: later does tricky things with the return stack
12:01:36 <random100> thought it just "swaps"
12:01:39 <crc> it does
12:02:02 <crc> but in this case, foo was pushed, so control is given to foo after later returns
12:02:15 <random100> wha ?
12:03:19 <random100> hm, how could I get "3 2" then ?
12:03:39 <crc> : foo later 2 . ;
12:03:42 <crc> : bar foo 3 . ;
12:04:10 <random100> I'm basically thinking the wrong way around then ?
12:04:16 <crc> yes
12:04:33 <random100> ok, thank you :)
12:05:15 <crc> later gives control to whatever appears to be the caller. by pushing the address of foo before calling later, you trick it into thinking that foo was the caller
12:06:50 <random100> hm, I think I actually want it even later
12:07:29 <crc> what are you trying to do?
12:08:34 <random100> trying to create some "type-system"
12:08:41 <random100> http://pastebin.com/N5xbGD4B
12:09:45 <random100> I just want to add some "type-information" ... or whatever
12:09:53 <random100> can't find a clever way to do that though
12:12:07 <random100> basically some information that is not a string and varies in size
12:15:13 <crc> how would you want to retrieve this information?
12:17:02 <random100> that's indeed a problem :)
12:17:28 <random100> adding an address at the front to the information ?
12:17:38 <random100> *pointing to
12:19:07 * random100 hasn't got a clue how to 'really do forth'...
12:19:52 <crc> basically, you want to be able to create some kind of data structure that can be embedded into a definition?
12:20:59 <random100> and I don't know why I want to 'append' it ...
12:21:36 <random100> yes
12:24:32 <crc> maybe something like this?
12:24:33 <crc> : [[ compiler off 8 , here 0 , ; compile-only
12:24:34 <crc> : ]] 0 , compiler on here swap dup 1+ literal, ! ;
12:24:34 <crc> : foo [[ 1 , 2 , 3 , ]] repeat @+ 0; . again ;
12:25:43 <random100> guess I just found a way
12:25:55 <random100> that looks better -- one moment
12:29:16 <random100> I wanted it the other way around, but that looks simpler
12:30:00 <crc> putting the data at the end makes it harder to locate
12:30:42 <random100> yeah
12:33:15 <random100> compiler off 8 , here 0 , "equals" ahead ?
12:33:39 <crc> 8 , here 0 ,  =  ahead
12:34:00 <crc> the 'compiler off' would be separate
12:35:37 <random100> ah
12:35:39 <random100> of course
12:37:57 <random100> though I wonder what 'foo' is supposed to do
12:38:09 <crc> foo just displays the values in the data structure
12:41:33 <random100> : ]] 0 , compiler on here 1+ swap ! ;
12:41:51 <random100> : foo [[ 1 , 2 , ]] 33 . ;
12:42:04 <random100> I expected "33" to be the output
12:42:38 <random100> your swap is at a different position ... hm
12:43:00 <crc> drop the 1+
12:43:11 <random100> yep, works
12:48:13 <random100> no, it does not :(
12:48:44 <crc> : [[ compiler off ahead ; compile-only
12:48:44 <crc> : ]] 0 , compiler on here swap ! ;
12:48:44 <crc> : foo [[ 1 , 2 , ]] 33 . ;
12:48:51 <crc> works for me on 10.5
12:49:43 <random100> yep, that works
12:49:45 <random100> sorry
12:50:07 <random100> : foo [[ 1 , 2 , 3 , ]] ['] foo repeat @+ 0; . again ; <-- does not
12:50:30 <crc> : >data 4 + ;
12:50:44 <crc> : foo [[ 1 , 2 , 3 , ]] ['] foo >data repeat @+ 0; . again ;
12:51:13 <crc> you need to skip over the nop's (for vectors) and jump (over the data) to get to the start of the data
12:51:17 <random100> ['] foo <-- adress of foo ?
12:51:21 <crc> yess
12:51:26 <random100> ah
12:54:18 <random100> that leaves the address of foo on the stack though
12:55:00 <random100> repeat @+ 0 =if drop ;then again ; <-- does not work
12:55:57 <crc> that will exit, but not display
12:56:10 <random100> yeah
12:56:32 <crc> repeat @+ dup 0 =if 2drop ;then . again
12:56:51 <random100> ah :)
12:57:01 <random100> of course, =if "consumes"
12:58:05 <random100> great, thank you
12:58:21 <crc> no problem
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15:49:37 <Mat2> hello
16:15:10 <Mat2> ciao
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16:38:21 <crc> hi erider
16:41:23 <erider> hi crc 
16:45:33 <erider> crc, what is the name of your ruby server 
16:45:49 <crc> rails.rx-core.org is my installation
16:46:24 <crc> rails.erider.rx-core.org for your account on my server
16:47:30 <erider> ok thanks 
16:47:46 <erider> hey what new with the new release 
16:47:52 <crc> (if you log in with ssh, your rails files are in ~/app)
16:47:59 <crc> 10.5 is out
16:48:15 <crc> 10.6 isn't started yet
16:48:59 <erider> crc, how did you handle the socket module 
16:49:32 <crc> erider: C code in the vm, and mapped via the port i/o interface
16:50:22 <erider> cool so you got to use your interface 
16:50:51 <crc> yup
16:51:01 <erider> neat
16:51:02 <crc> same thing with handling files
16:52:16 <erider> is it slow 
16:52:31 <crc> all i/o is slow
16:52:40 <erider> what is the over head to handle things through the interface 
16:52:59 <crc> I've not done any performance comparisons
16:55:29 <crc> takes 0.026s to read in a 512k file on my mac mini
16:56:18 <erider> hey did mat's vm come out too 
16:57:04 <crc> which one? he has several varients now
16:57:18 <crc> his latest one is still being rewritten due to a drive failure
16:57:39 <erider> hmm 
16:57:55 <erider> I didn't know that it was working 
16:58:18 <crc> I don't know the current state
16:58:51 <crc> (being incompatible with ngaro means that I have no tools to use with it until he develops/releases something)
17:04:02 <erider> ok 
17:05:16 <erider> crc, didn't you say that mail can't be send from the rx-core server right? 
17:05:56 <crc> you can send, but receiving requires a separate login
17:06:11 <crc> (webmail only; via google domain apps)
17:08:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc
17:08:59 <erider> I see 
17:10:25 <crc> did I provide the email data when I setup everything else?
17:11:40 <erider> I don't think so but I do remember that you were saying that it wasn't working 
17:17:28 <crc> I'm doing some non-forth stuff currently (work on patengi)
17:20:47 <erider> what is patengi 
17:22:16 <crc> a webapp to manage a library of ebooks
17:22:21 <crc> http://rx-core.org/patengi
17:23:28 <crc> (this is a demo installation; my private installation has over 850 books at present)
17:23:34 <erider> that is one of you js projects 
17:23:39 <crc> no
17:23:44 <crc> php/sqlite
17:23:49 <erider> ahj 
17:24:14 <crc> the only js used is in epubjs for reading the books, but I didn't write that part of patengi
17:30:35 <crc> I rewrote a lot of it yesterday; most of the stuff is handled by a single template; and the styling is mostly css controlled now
17:30:42 <crc> looks *much* nicer IMO
17:31:31 <erider> crc, have you every played on a vms node 
17:31:40 <crc> no
17:31:48 <crc> I've never used VMS
17:33:36 <erider> its wierd 
17:33:45 <erider> but I am getting use to it 
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17:50:28 <erider> crc, do you use irssi 
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18:09:34 <crc> erider: macirssi
18:09:54 <crc> and regular irssi
18:10:18 <crc> (regular when using ssh (at work, car, etc), macirssi when at home)
18:36:53 <erider> how is that mac working out for you 
18:43:22 <crc> very well
18:44:49 <erider> I want a mac but I don't have the cash to do it 
18:47:17 <crc> this one is about two years old now
18:47:26 <crc> i can't afford to upgrade :(
18:48:30 <erider> do you have solid state 
18:48:41 <crc> no
18:50:55 <erider> hmm that is to bad 
18:51:33 <crc> why?
18:53:39 <erider> speed 
18:54:36 <crc> adding ssd would have raised the price too much to be worth it
18:59:01 <erider> yeah I can imagine 
19:40:50 <erider> good night 
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23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/10.03.27