00:00:00 --- log: started retro/10.02.12 00:26:23 --- join: virl (~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 03:00:11 --- join: crc2 (~charlesch@71.23.210.149) joined #retro 03:01:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc2 03:01:46 --- nick: crc2 -> crc 04:23:26 --- join: crc_work (~Administr@216.1.43.130) joined #retro 05:35:26 --- quit: virl (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 05:37:21 --- join: virl (~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 07:06:51 good morning 07:07:09 etherpad looks really nice! 07:18:34 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 07:24:04 --- join: crc2 (~charlesch@71.23.210.149) joined #retro 07:43:22 looks like connection issues on my home machine... 07:48:32 hi crc_work 08:10:30 hi docl 08:41:02 hello guys 09:13:28 --- join: crc2_ (~charlesch@71.23.210.149) joined #retro 09:14:06 --- quit: crc2 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 09:15:59 --- quit: virl (Remote host closed the connection) 09:22:20 --- quit: crc2_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 09:46:30 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@pool-173-69-160-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #retro 09:46:37 --- quit: erider (Changing host) 09:46:37 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 09:58:03 the wimax connection doesn't seem as reliable as the borrowed wifi 09:59:56 --- join: crc2 (~charlesch@71.23.210.149) joined #retro 10:04:44 crc2 I am going to slowdown on the project because I think I may write my own socket lib from scratch I am still investigating this 10:12:32 crc_work: The task is trivial and it is something I can do in C but in forth it is a little hard for me because I don't have a good grasp of the language but I am learning forth with this project which is the ultimate goal 10:22:05 but I think I have a pretty good start 10:22:41 --- quit: crc2 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 10:25:21 later I think I want to work on a portable library. I was thinking about some how creating a interface into another language the is on most platforms and use their socket library with a thin forth wrapper to get the low level stuff hidden 10:25:59 --- join: crc2 (~charlesch@71.23.210.149) joined #retro 10:26:23 crc2 looks like you are having connection issues 10:26:42 well I talk to you guys later caio 10:31:21 --- quit: erider (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 10:52:25 --- join: crc2_ (~charlesch@71.23.210.149) joined #retro 10:54:48 --- quit: crc2 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 11:21:13 --- quit: crc2_ (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 11:43:56 --- quit: SimonRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:54:27 --- join: SimonRC (~sc@fof.durge.org) joined #retro 12:26:50 --- join: Mat2 (~4d177d93@gateway/web/freenode/x-hsurhhkwlgnyshcm) joined #retro 12:27:10 good afternoon 12:35:18 hi mat2 12:44:52 --- join: crc2 (~charlesch@71.23.210.149) joined #retro 12:54:19 --- join: crc2_ (~charlesch@71.23.210.149) joined #retro 12:55:09 --- quit: crc2 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:58:14 hi crc 12:58:49 I hope the snow doesn't limit your way to work 12:58:58 had doesn't 13:45:08 time for work, ciao 13:45:12 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 15:19:16 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@pool-173-69-160-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #retro 15:19:24 --- quit: erider (Changing host) 15:19:24 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 15:49:15 --- join: virl (~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 15:58:32 hi 16:15:20 --- join: nizchka_ (~nizchka@h59237.upc-h.chello.nl) joined #retro 16:17:10 --- quit: crc2_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 16:42:38 --- join: crc2 (~charlesch@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #retro 16:42:58 back 16:43:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc2 16:43:11 --- nick: crc2 -> crc 16:45:35 --- quit: nizchka_ (Quit: Leaving) 16:47:07 --- join: nizchka_ (~nizchka@h59237.upc-h.chello.nl) joined #retro 16:50:21 hi nizchka_ 16:57:08 --- quit: nizchka_ (Remote host closed the connection) 17:02:55 crc ping 17:02:59 hi erider 17:03:49 crc hey do you know why recv keeps returning 16 no matter what I put send from the remote side 17:03:55 no 17:04:07 * crc still can't get the socket lib working on his mac 17:04:59 ok thanks 17:05:49 * crc is trying the 9.0.9 release... 17:05:57 (which has a broken help system) 17:06:20 socket example works. 17:07:15 erider: there's apparently an easy way to make the socket connection: look at 'init' in examples/sockets.f 17:08:40 erider: what url is your current code at? 17:08:43 ok hold one 17:08:45 * crc will try with 9.0.9 17:09:08 http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1963 17:09:29 that is the last on line but I have made some updates since that one 17:09:48 listener is not defined 17:13:40 I defined it in the lib 17:13:52 pastebin your lib too 17:14:39 ok 17:16:56 http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1964 17:18:03 sockaddr not defined 17:18:30 crc put that word in net/sockets 17:18:44 the sockaddr is hidden 17:18:55 the use a hide on it 17:19:14 crc wait 17:19:53 --- quit: virl (Remote host closed the connection) 17:20:14 crc http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1965 17:20:58 how do you connect to it? 17:21:02 telnet doesn't work 17:21:13 I use netcat 17:21:24 what commands? 17:21:39 nc 127.0.0.1 5001 17:24:57 same thing. connects, then disconnects immediately 17:25:47 comment out closesocket 17:26:53 now I don't get disconnected 17:27:55 yeah I am trying to work out a echoserver 17:28:20 but the recv doesn't seems to be working 17:29:15 --- join: Raystm2 (rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #retro 17:32:10 --- join: zachk (~geisthaus@pool-71-240-243-4.syr.east.verizon.net) joined #retro 17:33:15 crc reva is real sensitive on how to access structures 17:33:35 --- join: nizchka (~nizchka@h59237.upc-h.chello.nl) joined #retro 17:33:44 erider: how so? 17:33:59 hi. :) 17:34:07 Exception: C0000096 at: 0061BA00 17:34:27 howdy 17:34:31 hi 17:35:38 erider: what did you do to trigger the execption? 17:35:44 erider: Do know what that Exception is refering to, or how it was created? 17:35:49 yea, trigger? 17:35:54 hi ray, docl, zachk, and nizchka 17:36:16 its the structure that accept is trying to access 17:36:25 hello 17:36:38 the correction is lsock 0 0 accept 17:36:39 hi crc 17:36:41 hi zachk 17:36:45 hi nizchka 17:36:54 hi erider :) 17:36:57 hi Raystm2 17:37:01 hi 17:37:20 crc the example should work as a echo server 17:38:17 obviously I haven't done all the testing of return values but that is later once a get something working 17:39:48 connections are fine it data transfer where I am getting stumped 17:40:15 Oh hey erider, did you get a server up then? 17:40:25 Obviously. 17:40:35 say something else obvious, Ray. 17:41:21 In Reva, no less. Cool. Is there a paste of the code somewhere? 17:41:33 Raystm2: http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1963 17:41:39 Raystm2: yeah its ok but I don't have functionality like I should have 17:41:44 Sweet, thank you crc. :0 17:42:10 understood. in development. I am advised. 17:43:22 http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1965 17:43:57 that is the current version but I removed sizeof and hard coded the size 17:44:32 ERROR: unknown word: sizeof 17:44:33 Raystm2: do you have a version of reva 17:45:05 crc you need alg/structs 17:45:16 but I removed sizeof 17:45:39 crc let me give you the most current version 17:46:40 crc http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1966 17:48:12 I don't know the first thing about Reva, or why it is. Readable though. I see some things I recognise like a semi-colon that does return/jump. Don't know what in the first example there was a SEND function with a word i'm not familure -- zt. 17:48:29 Raystm2: do you see any reason why this thing will not work 17:48:31 Raystm2: SEND is part of the sockets lib 17:48:51 That makes sense. 17:49:13 Raystm2: http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1966 17:49:20 erider, I don't believe I have enough info to make a determination either way. So far, so good, I would say. 17:49:35 ty erider, linked in. 17:49:58 np 17:50:53 Raystm2: so you only use colorforth and retro 17:51:06 I only use cf. 17:51:23 erider: 1966 works for me 17:51:49 Treebeard:~ charleschilders$ nc 0.0.0.0 5001 17:51:49 this is a test of the echo server 17:51:49 this is a test of the echo server 17:51:50 Treebeard:~ charleschilders$ 17:51:53 I like retro, have used it, have used 18 programming languages, all abandoned in terms of my "scientific" research. Only use other stuff for convenience and lazyness anymore. :) 17:53:32 lol from my working point of view, Retroforth is bloated. lol sorry, crc, I get to say that because cf is so dang sparce. 17:53:34 Raystm2: so what are you using for day to day tinkering 17:53:40 colorForth. 17:54:07 Raystm2: how many words does cf ship with 17:54:36 crc it should but I am not getting the same results :( 17:54:49 maybe it is my version of reva 17:54:59 several, I've not counted. stars with extreamly few and immediately loads something you might recognize as a very tiny forth just to help get you started. 17:55:33 Before the bytecode compiler loads the only words available are.... 17:55:34 erider: and I can't move on to the task without a working version on my end 17:56:05 boot, warm, then, begin, here, ?dup, the comma ops 1, 2, 3, and , ... 17:56:15 semi-colon... 17:56:20 jump... 17:56:54 no create> 17:56:54 mark, empt,... 17:56:57 no need. 17:57:00 create? 17:57:02 red == creat 17:57:05 +e 17:57:19 but you have : 17:57:27 no, red 17:57:36 ok 17:57:38 colorForth, right? 17:57:43 do you have tick 17:57:59 now we actually do, but not the same as the one you might recognize. 17:58:14 afterthougth, helper for working on the commandline. 17:58:21 so you have about 10 words 17:58:48 well, that's not entirely accurate either... remember it immediatly starts the forth compiler. 17:58:51 you don't have ! and @ which is weird 17:59:02 That provides a whole host of words. 17:59:30 part of the colorForth compiler, defined more efficiently in it's OWN language then in the assembler. 18:00:27 ! and @ are defined first but only pre-ceded by the words it depends on like SWAP, 0, IF, A, and A! 18:00:48 and one that is not a macro... 2* 18:00:52 doH! 18:00:54 yes it is 18:01:31 a is the not a macro and defind by 2* 18:01:33 interesting 18:02:20 * erider figures that you don't need a lot of words 18:02:37 before the compiler is compiled a sort of PREcompiler is run that is capable of booting the rest of the language from the languages own implementation. sort of an Oroboros situation. 18:02:43 thats right. 18:02:47 you really don't. 18:03:05 yeah I am learning that 18:03:33 you have to have a lot of interface knowledge to work with the remaining world of wonderful programs and programmers, but your tool box can be quite small and efficient. 18:04:02 not all colorforths are small 18:04:17 This gets easier every day as OTHER programmers depend on things like XML to interface their world. 18:04:18 * crc used to have a fairly large herkforth system at one time 18:04:22 That's also true. 18:05:28 We find that programmers like to depend on simplicity when they can, and text file descriptions of XML is very popular, I am finding. 18:06:21 I don't need much if there is a good infrastructure 18:06:48 It all comes to education. The more you have the less you need. lol :) 18:06:50 crc maybe its my version of netcat 18:08:02 I hope that is the issue 18:08:19 then I will be done with the project 18:08:38 The difficult part comes trying to penetrate that membrane of popular knowledge vs. something a bit less popular, less convenient but none the less powerful and even possibly more powerful. 18:09:47 Programmers have said to me, "Why should we go down paths that we've passed, ideas that have matured, and moved on?" 18:10:06 erider: try telnet 18:10:12 "Haven't we done all that?" 18:10:13 telnet 127.0.0.1 5001 18:10:48 * crc has netcat 0.7.1 18:11:17 win7 doesn't have telnet 18:11:32 --- quit: nizchka (Quit: Leaving) 18:11:39 and I am always reminded of what my electronics instructor said, that solid-state electronics ( at the time ) was miniturizing so fast, technology changing so fast, that many ideas never get the proper chance to be exploited correctly. 18:11:43 I am getting ready to test it in linux mint 18:13:49 just remember, erider, it's your kink of curiosity that is good to have. To push what you don't know into what you do. 18:13:54 kink=kind 18:14:22 --- quit: zachk (Quit: Leaving.) 18:14:58 crc yeah I was my netcat version 18:15:07 it was* 18:15:27 cool 18:17:58 I wish I had confidence in my last version of code and tested it in linux 18:18:01 * crc is working on more editor extensions 18:18:16 but that is cool the rewrite is cleaner 18:20:34 crc did acceptparams work for you 18:20:47 erider: paste 1966 worked, without changes 18:20:51 erider: the others did not 18:21:00 ok 18:21:30 crc, new colorForth is bloadted as well with newer words like WHILE ( [if] swap ). When one realizes that just about every swap can be eliminated from a program, while becomes colorForth bloat. 18:22:02 Raystm2: do you have any projects going in cf 18:22:22 hey Raystm2 does cf have a socket lib 18:22:45 erider: no 18:22:55 erider: cf is basically running at the hardware level 18:23:03 erider: no abstractions like sockets AFAIK 18:23:18 Many, my most "famous" if you will is my movie project http://youTube.com/Raystm2 the playlist cMooreMath where you can see some of the first few demos I have posted. 18:23:27 but you use it to write drivers right 18:24:25 yes, cf comes with a way to communicate with the outside world thru the ports, serial, parrallel, or even the network ports. 18:24:39 but not something you might consider a library as you know it. 18:25:35 it drives printers, testbeds, and typically networks thru a connection with a netserver on another host. 18:25:50 is that pacman 18:26:08 no that's Karel the Robot. from Pascal fame 18:26:16 I call it ChuckBot the Cursor. 18:26:35 It represents my attempt to prove 1% the code. 18:27:02 Python programmers know it as Guido von Robot. 18:27:43 hmm 18:29:10 chip designers will recognise that I can display all of the requirments, as ChuckBot can be seen as a chip simulation or a robot world or what have you. I have turned him into a programmable cursor that you can create a neat editor with. 18:29:19 I'm makeing movies of all of that. 18:29:56 Raystm2: you play with drivers 18:31:02 I drive with playas foo.... lol Some, I don't have very many requirments to do so. I have to tweek in displays sometimes, for colorForth. 18:32:06 most of what I need to do, and this is the case in just about every programming language you find unless it's esoteric or possibly your own, that most of the work has been done for me already. 18:32:29 I usually only have to make minor adjustments. 18:33:48 by the way, chuckBot is very nearly Pacman, don't you think? 18:34:02 I mean, it wouldn't take much... 18:35:49 an earlier "white paper" if you will i did about chuckBot exists somewhere on the web, but I'm coding a new one for the newest things i've learned about colorForth and to be used in the newest releases. 18:44:48 yup 18:48:19 I'm embarrased to ask, but did you enjoy the song that went with the testmovie? I'm trying to get a feel if it is appropriate. 18:48:56 I was watching the actions 18:49:05 np, ty :) 18:50:37 lol I sound like a survey service, sorry. :) 18:50:51 no worries 18:51:00 I was interested in the forth 18:51:17 hey crc how is the rem coming for reva 18:51:31 I get precious little feedback and so I suppose I tend to press the issue, I'll say no more. 18:51:37 erider: very slowly 18:51:53 erider: I'm hoping to have the core rem functionality working tomorrow 18:52:08 --- join: nizchka (~nizchka@h59237.upc-h.chello.nl) joined #retro 18:52:21 it worked for me the current version you have 18:52:38 you can download and use putty 18:52:47 I didn't post rem for reva yet 18:52:56 erider: *red* works on reva 18:53:07 erider: but *rem* doesn't (yet) 18:53:08 ah rem is the extension 18:53:13 yes 18:53:14 wb, nizchka. Putty? 18:53:20 sorry about the confusion 18:53:22 rem adds navigation via keyboard, better editing, etc 18:53:50 I take it rem is the editor? 18:54:05 rem is an optional extension to the ditor 18:54:07 *editor 18:54:26 ray: retro has a block editor (red) included; it's line oriented and pretty minimal 18:54:31 lol the remainder of the editor? sorry for pun if not punny. 18:54:41 I recall that. 18:54:53 ray: *rem* extends it to allow moving a cursor around, editing more freely, etc 18:55:13 --- part: nizchka left #retro 18:55:17 I ported the core editor to reva recently 18:55:22 I see, thank you. 18:55:26 but haven't finished porting rem to it yet 18:55:33 lots of little issues :) 18:55:35 Oh, okay, I see. :) 18:56:29 --- join: nizchka (~nizchka@h59237.upc-h.chello.nl) joined #retro 18:56:43 --- part: nizchka left #retro 19:15:59 erider: http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1967 19:16:06 it's not working for me on my mac 19:16:39 change : edit ... to: 19:16:54 : edit ( - ) repeat rem.display rem.key edit? match again ; 19:17:23 crc I will give it a go in a minute 19:17:51 it might work on other oses; the mac port of reva is buggy :( 19:23:53 what makes it crash 19:24:23 well I would say stay away from ( ) and use | 19:24:29 no. 19:24:49 ( ) works in my reva 19:24:57 ( ) seems to give me issues 19:25:08 * crc wants to make as few changes to the original as possible 19:25:17 ok 19:25:20 less changes = easier maintenance :) 19:26:57 yup 19:37:07 crc ok now I have a working version of the port forwarder 19:37:46 communication is one way right now 19:37:51 http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1968 (rem.f) and http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1969 (red.f) 19:37:55 working at last :) 19:38:02 ./bin/reva red.f rem.f 19:38:11 and then 'edit' to start the editor :) 19:38:21 none of the xkeys stuff yet though 19:39:47 cool 19:40:14 I got one time text 19:43:35 crc I have two way communication now 19:43:40 cool 19:45:51 I need to add conditions but I will do that later but what I need right now is to close sockets 19:54:47 crc this is the new version but I still have some things to workout http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1970 19:55:24 I want to use bind with the remote connection 20:10:36 I think I am going to have to make the bind happen in the lib itself 20:11:19 the hardcoded is a hack and it is cluegy 20:12:51 the hardcoded form is a hack 20:13:07 and it is not a clean way to do it 20:15:33 crc the HandleTcpClient is going to have to be a little more robust 20:15:45 I will work on it tomorrow 20:15:50 ok 20:16:06 * crc will cleanup rem for reva tomorrow 20:16:37 * erider is going to change the words names as well 20:17:08 word 20:17:47 lol erider, you know, I think it reads correctly in both cases. Sweet example that one. 20:19:20 Raystm2: the stack diagrams are not accurate at the moment due to leaving things on the stack to try things out 20:19:34 * erider will clean that up as well 20:19:36 ty for heads up. 20:20:27 Raystm2: the ultimate goal is to make a firewall in forth 20:20:41 user-level firewall 20:21:38 that is why I am thinking about building on top of the current socket lib or rewrite it completely 20:22:20 the ULTIMATE goal is to live long and be happy doing so for as long as possible. I can see where are Forth Firewall could help to achieve that goal. sorry, I'm in smart-ass mode. quitting. ;P 20:22:54 I see. that's truly cool. 20:23:12 there is a ftp client lib that should be added to the lib I don't think it should be separate well at least the words should be exposed to the socket context 20:24:19 I like exposure idea. 20:24:55 it would be need to use just a small set of words that can be portable 20:26:52 will I have to go 20:27:12 I am going to do some forth on paper before going to sleep 20:27:30 before I go to sleep 20:27:30 :) gn 20:40:00 --- quit: erider (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 23:00:41 I remember rem. Looking at the linked paste I recall what you have done. 23:00:44 Okay, gn :) 23:00:56 --- quit: Raystm2 (Quit: User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby) 23:59:40 --- join: foucist (~foucist@69.93.127.31) joined #retro 23:59:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +v foucist 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/10.02.12