00:00:00 --- log: started retro/10.02.09 00:02:17 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00:06:58 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00:14:05 --- join: crc2 (~charlesch@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #retro 02:17:29 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 03:13:31 --- join: virl (~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 03:23:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc2 03:23:56 --- nick: crc2 -> crc 04:54:43 --- join: crcx_ (~d8012b82@gateway/web/freenode/x-ybjfsoiybdxqetsc) joined #retro 04:55:27 --- nick: crcx_ -> crc_work 06:18:28 --- join: sixforty (~sixforty@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 07:12:05 --- quit: crc_work (Quit: Page closed) 07:29:13 you awake, docl? 09:52:41 --- quit: sixforty (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:58:34 --- join: sixforty (~sixforty@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 10:40:39 --- join: Mat2 (~5b43e0d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-bmdnmzuhkgofpves) joined #retro 10:40:52 G'Day 10:41:23 @crc: thanks for the test on ypur iPhone 10:41:25 your 10:45:46 --- quit: Mat2 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:48:16 --- quit: sixforty (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:51:01 --- join: Mat___ (~5b43e0d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-cbotcjqukcpgxcmc) joined #retro 10:51:10 --- quit: Mat___ (Client Quit) 10:51:17 --- join: Mat2 (~5b43e0d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-qqjegqbxjzklplqi) joined #retro 10:51:39 one system crash later ... 10:57:53 no problem 11:00:16 --- join: sixforty (~sixforty@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #retro 11:12:37 hi crc, sixforty 11:15:22 hi, mat 11:15:41 where can info and files be found for your vm's? 11:16:36 http://rapiddatabase.assembla.com/wiki/show/avm 11:16:45 not much information yet 11:17:00 thank you 11:18:41 my exetnded-ngaro vm can be found at: 11:18:44 http://github.com/Mat2/extended-ngaro 11:18:51 extended 11:19:16 why the switch to assembla? 11:19:39 problems qith github and my preference for mercurial 11:19:46 with 11:21:31 you will find a new retro this night for navm (an avm version with builtin support for direct and indirect threading) 11:39:18 have someone read something from docl this day ? 11:44:40 I haven't seen docl post anything today 11:47:10 I've mailed with Helmar this week 11:48:47 he's interessted in the forum 11:49:36 cool 11:52:28 docl should create an entry for 4p 11:55:45 he will if helmar wants one 11:56:16 :) 11:56:42 ok, i'm post him he should get contact him directly 11:57:44 I can also create it if desired 12:03:23 brb 13:15:51 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 13:30:54 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@pool-173-69-160-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #retro 13:31:07 --- quit: erider (Changing host) 13:31:07 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 13:31:35 hi 13:36:20 --- join: rubknob (~rubknob@rrcs-24-129-162-10.se.biz.rr.com) joined #retro 13:36:22 --- part: rubknob left #retro 13:46:07 hi erider 13:46:18 'll be home in ~30 min 13:46:22 *I'll 13:46:50 ok 13:49:15 crcz hey I want to redone that word with the value word 13:53:15 crcz http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1950 14:08:47 --- quit: SimonRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 14:10:10 crcz: nevermind on last link it was half baked 14:19:20 --- join: SimonRC (~sc@fof.durge.org) joined #retro 14:36:46 dup @ index =if drop cell+ @ execute ;then 14:54:14 --- join: Mat2 (~5b43e0d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-cegaabgappauzeow) joined #retro 14:54:42 crc here is my new version http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1951 14:54:46 hi Mat2 14:54:55 hi erider 14:55:35 whats new 14:56:39 erider: you creatin a dtc interpreter ? 14:57:54 i'm workin on an extension to avm (called navm) for supporting fast subroutine, dtc and itc threading 14:58:21 Mat2: I am thinking about making a proxy and then later use that vocabulary to make a firewall 14:59:04 so you want to create a web server I think 14:59:33 no it is going to be more like a redirector like socat 14:59:41 ah ok 14:59:48 nice project 15:00:04 port manipulate 15:01:11 Mat2: I haven't decided if I want to go low or stay at the user level and use API/libraries for sockets 15:11:17 I think using existing API's is simplier 15:15:47 true 15:24:25 Google's bot is registered and currently online at the forum :) 15:24:54 cool 15:25:17 hi sixforty 15:25:36 hello again, Mat 15:25:43 *Mat don't see a googling bot* 15:26:41 * sixforty hits refresh ya, gone now. Gotta put more relevant stuff there so it'll take the booger longer :P 15:28:09 back 15:29:32 crc wb 15:30:02 wb 15:32:11 sixforty: Google bot's are a greate chance for widespreading useful informations such as:" Pinguins protest against tomate-souces in hering conserves" 15:33:21 wow! got a link to that, Mat2? 15:33:46 www.heise.de 15:34:08 you must search for something like leopard forelle *grin* 15:35:58 --- join: revabot (~blah@pool-173-69-160-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #retro 15:35:58 Hi! reva rocks! 15:36:16 hello 15:36:46 --- quit: revabot (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:36:54 sorry about that 15:37:05 I was testing socket library 15:37:07 nice bot 15:37:47 its not complete but I can use some of the words to help 15:37:53 I saw "reva" and "bot" ; was just about to /msg it help 15:38:19 sixforty: its not ready for that yet :) 15:39:05 maybe after the port forwarder I will work on it some more 15:41:00 some interagations shoud be nice 15:41:57 *Mat2 thinks about an eliza like bot* 15:42:59 Mat2: will your irc client let you do /me some text here ? 15:43:06 * sixforty some text here? 15:43:30 no 15:44:45 crc I didn't realize that reva ships with a arm compiler. So I can write programs in reva and put them on my phone 15:45:16 hmm, arm cross compiler 15:45:27 wait 15:45:40 I need to look at the source again 15:47:04 --- join: Mat2_ (~5b43e0d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-iwuxxwizlzjeaved) joined #retro 15:47:16 --- quit: Mat2_ (Client Quit) 15:47:23 --- join: Mat2_ (~5b43e0d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-afyanznvlcdsatyw) joined #retro 15:47:36 crc the program is call arming.exe 15:47:39 --- quit: Mat2 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:47:50 erider: it uses an external assembler 15:47:52 --- nick: Mat2_ -> mat2 15:48:40 crc it looks like it should run native on the device 15:48:57 erider: apps it builds will run native on the device 15:49:10 erider: but it won't let you run reva on the device 15:50:21 crc it will not run in windows 15:50:49 the cross-compiler is intended to be used from within reva for windows 15:50:56 though not necessarily the current reva... 15:51:21 I don't see any docs on how to use it 15:52:12 examples/arm/armapp.f 15:53:02 looks like you also need a copy of fasmarm.exe 15:54:52 crc: do you know if fasmarm is usable ? 15:55:50 I think it's fairly complete 15:58:22 * erider is downloading it now 15:59:23 --- quit: mat2 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:59:33 --- join: Mat2 (~5b43e0d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-mbxiywcseivshouc) joined #retro 16:00:47 *Mat thinks about porting his native code compiler as third option to avm* 16:01:19 fine, I will nedd an arm assembler soon 16:01:23 need 16:03:02 crc did you look at my update 16:03:23 i'm go to sleep, ciao all togeteher 16:03:37 together 16:03:44 --- quit: Mat2 (Client Quit) 16:21:05 crc well it compiles but the example didn't do anything on the device 16:21:52 but it did run but it didn't render anything 16:26:14 nah its not ready for prime time 16:33:28 erider: your update looks ok 16:34:02 erider: does 'to' parse in reva, or does it set a flag? 16:34:12 crc I did it that way so I did not have to play with the stack the much 16:34:57 to Sets the value 16:35:08 but does it parse, or set a flag. 16:35:10 e.g., 16:35:14 to 100 foo 16:35:20 would this work to set foo to 100? 16:36:18 nope, so it's a parsing implementation 16:36:21 I don't now 16:36:23 know 16:36:33 ok> to 100 foo 16:36:34 "100" not class: 'value 16:36:34 Caught: -1 16:36:40 I use 0 value foo the to foo 16:36:44 then* 16:37:11 * crc was just curious about the implementation. retro's implementation doesn't parse, but sets a hidden flag 16:37:33 ok> 0 value foo 16:37:34 ok> 100 to foo 16:37:36 ok> foo . 16:37:38 100 16:37:39 ok> 16:37:48 in retro, I can also do: 16:37:51 to 100 foo 16:38:20 reva's implementation is parsing, like the ans implementation. Not a big deal, I was just curious 16:38:26 no not in reva it just complained at me 16:40:48 crc I haven't figure out how to use the ~ words 16:40:59 context 16:42:28 I suspect that they are vocabulary 16:42:52 the forth word VOCABULARY 16:43:50 contexts are similar to vocabularies, but bind additional functionality 16:48:00 crc hey what would you call an adjective in forth 16:48:07 retro-style 'value' and 'to' for reva: http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1952 16:49:08 erider: I have no idea 16:49:39 forth is not english 16:54:25 crc reva has a lot of nuances that I don't fully understand shut forth has stuff I don't understand still! 16:55:19 but reva has got me interested in forth again 16:56:20 * crc has no regrets about the direction he's taken in his forth 16:57:27 reva is very different than it was originally 16:57:42 really 16:58:15 erider: it started as an all-assembly rewrite of retro 7.x 16:59:01 hmm interesting 16:59:05 erider: ron's rewritten so much that I'm no longer able to quickly remember how things work 17:00:28 crc I guess when his ability to write code in assembly grew reva changed 17:02:40 I think it's more of a narrow focus 17:03:17 at the time, Retro had ports on 9+ OSes, all of which shared some code, and had different I/O layers and FFI/syscall interfaces 17:03:27 he only had two OSes, so was able to test/evolve faster 17:04:47 I see 17:06:56 crc I think you are remove retro from the low level nature of forth 17:07:05 not really 17:07:16 I just defined a custom platform. 17:08:03 this was in the works for a long time. I've been experimenting with a predecessar to ngaro for many years 17:09:04 done anything interesting with ngaro that's not retro? 17:09:17 crc I like that forth handles pointers and numbers but with a big window for abstraction hmm that is what draws me to it 17:09:31 sixforty: I've experimented with porting small-c to target it 17:09:34 and it is kind of weird :) 17:09:44 sixforty: I'll eventually get that to a releasable state 17:10:20 crc you got small-c to run on ngaro? 17:10:31 erider: not on ngaro, but to build binaries ngaro could run 17:10:38 erider: it's only partially working 17:11:04 so a backend 17:11:07 compiler 17:12:14 yes 17:13:30 cool 17:18:53 hmm so I am going need socket, bind, listen 17:21:32 hmm and connect and maybe select 17:21:46 well we see 17:41:28 hi guys 17:41:56 sixforty: do you have posting privileges? 17:43:37 no, docl 17:43:59 oops 17:46:38 hi docl 17:47:44 you asking for testing purposes? Is it supposed to be automatic, or did you forget to do something? 17:47:46 sorry, isp wanted money 17:47:46 last thing I got was 08:42:11 PM) docl: oops 17:49:44 * docl fixed it 17:49:51 yeah it was supposed to be automatic 17:50:15 registered users should be able to post in the forums 17:50:44 yeah, I was wondering why I registered *g* 17:51:14 not much point registering if you can't post, eh? :) 17:51:56 hey, it did get me one of your email addresses for one of mine 17:52:25 guess you saw where google's bot registered 17:52:49 I think google bot is automatically registered in phpbb 17:53:46 ah. well it was in there looking around earlier :-) 17:54:01 nice 17:54:19 I haven't posted anything today, unfortunately. 17:56:08 oddly enough, the google bot is listed as having visited on feb 10th, at 1:34 am 17:57:27 they had to do something with those underused chinese servers 17:58:03 perhaps it is going by greenwich mean time 17:58:56 --- quit: virl (Remote host closed the connection) 19:26:27 * crc is starting to get the current stack comments + descriptions added to the wiki 19:26:54 docl: can you describe the functionality of (( and )) ? 19:28:14 ok 19:43:24 crc well a have something that will bind and listen on a port but no real functionality yet 19:45:57 that's a start 19:46:52 yeah I have to figure out how to transfer ports 19:47:13 then after that I will work on the user interface 19:51:38 crc here is my start http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=1953 19:52:48 erider: stack comments for the words? 19:53:36 I haven't placed them because I think that reva has a problem with ( ) 19:53:49 1) bind-port: use ;then instead of ;; then 19:53:59 I started with them but kept getting errors 19:54:02 2) listen-to-port: the 'else' isn't needed there 19:54:21 ok 19:54:39 the else if a place hold for more to come 19:54:59 I don't know why reva doesn't handle ( ) 19:55:02 you'd need an exit~ to close the context when the time comes 19:55:05 ok 19:55:55 I commented out context: to expose more of the words due to definition issues 19:56:42 * crc had forgotton that reva uses | for comments too 19:56:47 * crc only uses ( ) now 19:56:53 I placed | stack: to replace the ( -- ) 19:57:16 but I have not refilled them sorry about that 19:57:26 not a big problem at this point 19:57:57 crc yeah I am still working with it 19:58:16 does reva do tail call elimination? 19:58:22 I would a ruff draft that I can test then I will refine it 19:58:41 yeah 19:58:45 ok 19:59:16 the recursions in reva are just as good as repeat again 19:59:51 : fac ( n -- n ) dup 0 <> if dup 1 <> if dup 1 - fac * then then ; 20:00:06 this works well as a recursion 20:00:54 fac is recursing 20:00:56 and I don't need nothing to break it the condition will handle that for me 20:01:26 the tail call elimination is basically the same as repeat/again, not truely recursive :) 20:01:52 it look like it thou :) 20:02:18 And it is easy to understand 20:02:35 crc do you have tail call elimination 20:02:38 in retro 20:02:53 I wonder if the vocab words are nestable? 20:03:08 no 20:03:16 why would you want it to be 20:03:17 docl: vocabs aren't nestable, I tried :) 20:03:24 evidently not 20:03:38 * docl can fix that 20:03:48 its the context of the group of words defined underneath it right 20:03:49 the variables need to be lists 20:04:03 I'm fine with non-nestable 20:04:24 seems logical not to nest it 20:04:44 hmm... the elements would need to be allocated as multiple groups of three 20:04:55 docl: but it's up to you :) 20:06:00 crc the ruff draft should bind and listen on a port if you try it 20:06:17 I still have some words to define 20:07:02 erider: It won't run on my mac 20:07:24 erider: there's no os/process supported yet :( 20:07:29 linux/wind 20:07:57 it should run without that library 20:08:18 I haven't use the words in that lib yet 20:08:41 won't init 20:08:50 ok> init 20:08:50 error while listening on socket 0 20:08:51 terminating 20:09:10 hmmm 20:09:38 the is weird maybe it is the socket library 20:11:00 crc you should be able to use the socket library on the mac right? 20:11:08 erider: in theory, yes 20:11:19 erider: but the mac port of reva is still new and likely buggy 20:12:11 yeah that is why I was thinking about writing driver 20:12:21 in forth 20:13:01 or a user level wrapper 20:13:11 drivers are OS-specific 20:13:23 hmm let me think on it because, yeah I know 20:14:02 are you good with embedded devices? 20:14:15 NIT card and such 20:14:25 I've not messed with anything like that in the last few years 20:15:16 I want to get into driver stuff but I think that is way over my head 20:15:53 but I will talk to you later I want to do some programming on paper 20:16:18 ok 20:16:28 I love forth and scheme whews language you can still program without a computer 20:16:37 languages 20:18:57 * crc expects to have the wordlist current by saturday afternoon 20:21:26 --- quit: erider (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 20:45:40 hmm, I made it nestable. but the trouble is if you do "vocab foo (( vocab bar (( ... )) ))" it tries to use foo as bar's "before" which is altered after the final )) 20:47:59 "vocab foo (( stub bar vocab baz (( stub moo )) ))" works fine though. the trouble only arises when the word being linked to is moved to a later part of the dictionary. 20:53:00 --- quit: sixforty (Quit: Leaving.) 21:26:52 (( and )) described 22:39:21 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 22:40:56 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 22:46:30 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22:47:19 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/10.02.09