00:00:00 --- log: started retro/10.01.31 05:02:20 --- log: started retro/10.01.31 05:02:20 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #retro 05:02:20 --- topic: 'Retro Forth | Logs @ http://tr.im/Kept | http://retroforth.org | Stable Release 10.3.1 | Wiki Key: d98t~3 | http://www.forthcommunity.com' 05:02:20 --- topic: set by crc!~charlesch@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net on [Sat Jan 30 20:38:15 2010] 05:02:20 --- names: list (clog SimonRC virl @ChanServ docl crcz @crc yiyus) 06:42:18 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@pool-173-69-160-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #retro 06:43:14 --- quit: erider (Changing host) 06:43:14 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 06:43:24 hello world 07:22:50 --- quit: virl (Remote host closed the connection) 07:28:55 --- join: Mat2 (~5b40e900@gateway/web/freenode/x-puujqzuaaupfdymw) joined #retro 07:29:32 hello or good morning 07:39:59 good morning 07:40:10 * docl is in pacific time 07:40:16 hi docl 07:40:29 hi 07:40:33 * Mat2 is in west-european time 07:41:12 I want to ask you about the vocab words, how there workin ? 07:41:20 sure 07:42:10 a vocab word holds the fields for three dictionary words 07:43:12 open and shut change the linking between these dictionary words such that an area of the dictionary gets hidden and unhidden 07:43:54 * central-european time 07:44:04 good morning 07:44:33 ok, I define a vocabulary with vocab:, how do I enter it ? 07:44:37 hi crc 07:45:45 vocab test (ok) 07:46:17 (( define some words here )) 07:47:14 test words test words 07:47:40 that will show you the open and shut parts of the dictionary 07:48:43 ok 07:48:45 open and shut work with the address of the vocab word directly. this makes it easier to know what you are doing inside of a definition, as opposed to just toggling the behavior 07:49:11 : foo test open words test shut words ; 07:50:30 docl: not quite... 07:50:36 : foo ['] test open .... 07:51:41 whups 07:51:58 I just tested my example and noticed that. thanks crc 07:53:09 hmm, how can I switch back to the priour vocabulary ? 07:54:37 Mat2: words defined before you created the vocab are still available regardless of if it is open or shut 07:55:06 to make the words you made unavailable, just type the vocab's name 07:55:24 fine, thanks 07:56:01 or if you need to specifically shut it rather than toggle, use ' or ['] with shut after it. 07:57:19 hi guys 07:58:10 hi erider 07:58:23 whats new 07:59:06 erider: I'm starting to fill in the new wiki 07:59:34 what is wrong with the old one 07:59:38 testing subroutine calls in AVM per fibonnaci word 07:59:56 AVM? 08:00:10 http://rapiddatabase.assembla.com/wiki/show/avm/ 08:00:31 a new VM from me for Retroforth and other dynamic languages 08:00:36 erider: it's old, and has some issues with moving it to the main server. (requires a particular, customized retro7 core, which isn't portable or reliable enough) 08:01:52 @crc: a new wiki ? 08:02:00 Mat2: retroforth.org/pages 08:02:29 hey, looks nice ! 08:03:01 interesting 08:07:43 brb 08:07:47 --- quit: erider (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]) 08:07:53 Mat2: thanks 08:08:14 can I add some information about the AVM port of Retroforth if it's finished ? 08:08:20 sure 08:08:24 fine 08:08:34 editing key is d98t~3 08:15:13 thanks 08:15:17 no problem 08:16:43 I've just see that AVM seems to beat LuaJIT 08:17:56 * Mat2 thinks, thats caused by the overhead of regitser based vm's for efficient register allocation 08:18:24 register 08:19:25 brb 08:19:32 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 08:20:11 * crc is intending to move most of the documentation into the wiki 09:07:57 --- quit: SimonRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 09:18:41 --- join: SimonRC (~sc@fof.durge.org) joined #retro 12:16:31 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 12:16:44 hi 12:26:55 hi erider 12:28:14 how is the wiki coming 12:29:53 I'm making headway on merging in some of the docs 12:29:55 the backend stuff is all done, it's now just a matter of adding content 12:30:25 new site goes live later this week 12:41:10 --- join: virl (~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 12:52:58 crc its gong to feature examples in the languages you are working on 12:53:23 yes 12:53:34 cool 12:54:12 forth is a number language. it really handles numbers 12:56:45 forth has numbers and symbols 12:56:54 http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ForthSimplicity 13:04:42 * crc is trying to get a bit of traffic to docl's forum site 13:05:13 I added a link to it from the new site/wiki, a link on the forthfreak wiki, and mentioned it in a tweet 13:09:54 I was reading a good article on forth yesterday 13:10:47 docl: I can't create topics in the retroforth forum or common interests forum 13:11:49 erider: url? 13:12:05 I need to find it again hold on 13:18:13 crc http://www.dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/forth/forth.html#11 13:19:02 crc what does the word postpone do 13:19:13 postpone is tricky 13:19:24 it compiles the compilation semantics of a word into the definition 13:19:43 it was intended to replace COMPILE and [COMPILE] with a single word 13:19:45 lol everything in forth is sort tricky 13:20:00 postpone, like does>, is extra tricky :) 13:20:09 sort of* 13:20:37 postpone is like {COMPILE} 13:20:41 [ ] 13:21:00 * crc has a new one-line summary of create/does> -- it creates a single parameter continuation 13:22:07 huh 13:22:29 crc: I'll look into what's causing that 13:22:31 a continuation is a function+data, bound together 13:23:05 create/does> makes a new continuation, with a single parameter pushed to the stack whenever the continuation is called 13:23:14 (the paratemeter being the address of the data) 13:23:27 erider: for postpone, see http://forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/dpansa6.htm#A.6.1.2033 13:23:59 erider: also http://forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/dpans6.htm#6.1.2033 13:24:43 * crc has no postpone in retro, though ` fills a related role 13:25:17 crc postpone compiles words that are immediate 13:25:32 postpone cna compile immediate or non-immediate words 13:25:59 docl: thanks 13:26:46 should work now, I think 13:27:05 looks better 13:27:36 any other forums you think I should add? 13:28:14 the only other forths I routinely see in use are win32forth, reva, gforth, and pforth 13:28:28 reva has its own forums though 13:30:02 yes it does 13:39:19 docl: perhaps the best option is to do what mobileread does; and create new forums as the number of posts for particular systems increases 13:40:21 that works 13:41:39 * docl is looking at styles at http://www.phpbb.com/styles/db/ 13:42:43 sabah_siyah looks halfway decent 13:42:47 http://www.phpbb.com/styles/demo/3.0/index.php?style_id=495 13:43:56 nice. clean, and minimimalistic feel :) 13:52:34 --- join: Mat2 (~5b40e900@gateway/web/freenode/x-ujkepwoawoucvtlu) joined #retro 13:52:59 hi 13:53:04 hi mat 13:53:28 hi crc 13:59:53 hi Mat2 14:00:03 hi erider 14:00:21 Mat2: how is the porting going 14:03:15 I've corrected some bugs in the interpreter and work at current on the threading model 14:05:38 the good thing is: I can mix C and vm-code without restrictions 14:09:48 erider: have you read http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/moving1.htm ? I found it a good introduction into forth 14:11:49 thanks Mat2 I will have a look 14:12:30 moving forth was helpful to me a long time back 14:15:43 yes, it has helped me to understand how threading works (specially for a very special FIG/F79? forth my father own a decade ago) 14:26:09 the forum looks better now 14:26:30 hi docl 14:26:45 hi Mat2 14:26:55 hmm, a new forum for retroforth ? 14:27:21 for any forth 14:27:29 sounds good 14:27:39 it is a general forth forum, but I'm sort of starting with retro 14:28:08 ForthCommunity.com 14:28:56 you should post the link in CLF and other forth related forums to gain traffic too 14:29:30 the layout looks very nice 14:30:01 yup 14:31:25 :) 14:32:50 ok, i'm registered 14:38:25 ok, you should be part of the administrator group now 14:43:19 thaks 14:43:21 thanks 14:43:40 quickly add an entry about MinForth 14:44:19 nice! 14:52:39 @docl: i've just seen that code markups doesn't display 14:53:01 Mat2: interesting article about the different type of threading techniques in forth 14:55:50 @erider: and some nice optimation tricks for 6809 class cpu's 15:01:59 hmm 15:02:04 I'll take a look 15:04:31 there's no css rules for codecontent in the stylesheet 15:07:32 I wonder if I'm supposed to add the bbcodes manually 15:24:11 * crc is currently switching everything to the new site templates 15:24:47 docl: add a space after the [*] in you cyronics post 15:31:23 I think I figured it out 15:33:04 all content should be using the new templates (including the pastebin and old wiki) 15:33:06 bbcode works fine, I was just using it wrong. [link] does not use a title like [url] does 15:33:33 cool 15:38:54 ok, so it way my mistake 15:48:33 -> [code] 15:56:06 mat, the css style for [code] is missing 15:59:07 is there supposed to be a css style for code? 15:59:13 yes 16:00:00 code gets wrapped in a div with a css class of "codecontent" 16:00:07 so in the css, there should be a class: 16:00:14 .codecontent { .... } 16:00:14 ahh 16:00:36 and it should ideally specify a monospace font for the code 16:01:40 .codecontent { font-family: "Monaco", monospace; } 16:01:47 would do, I think 16:03:11 ok, let's make a short css test 16:04:21 * docl will enter that 16:06:53 it now has monospace 16:08:42 @crc: Monaco as font is problematic for Windows because a font with this name is likely not installed and some standard Windows font's display badly monospaced 16:12:01 I seldom use windows 16:12:39 so I don't know what all fonts should be spec'd for windows users 16:12:55 http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/sampler-Monospace.shtml 16:12:59 Terminus is a nice font, not sure how widely available it would be 16:14:09 looks like courier new is most widely supported 16:14:25 .codecontent { font-family: "Monaco", "Lucida Console", "Courier New", monospace; } 16:14:29 should work then 16:14:50 :) 16:15:55 done :) 16:16:01 monaco for macs, lucida console otherwise, if installed, with fallbacks to courier new and then whatever's left 16:17:57 it's far after midnight (local time), time for some sleep, ciao 16:18:05 goodnight mat2 16:18:16 dito 16:18:25 7:17pm here, so I'll be on for a while 16:18:26 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Page closed) 16:22:56 --- join: memeplex (~carlos@201.250.180.53) joined #retro 17:01:13 docl: one more useful forum would be a "code samples" one 17:04:42 ok 17:26:09 --- quit: SimonRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:28:12 --- quit: memeplex (Quit: Lost terminal) 17:32:25 crc have you every seen the within word? 17:32:33 yes 17:32:48 what does it do 17:32:53 erider: it's good for checking bounds 17:33:05 e.g., is this value within a specific range? 17:33:31 is it hard to implement 17:34:00 : within ( xul-f ) rot dup push > pop swap push < pop + -2 = ; 17:34:18 that's the retro implementation 17:35:05 what is xul 17:35:38 --- join: SimonRC (~sc@fof.durge.org) joined #retro 17:35:39 x = value to check 17:35:42 u = upper limit 17:35:45 l = lower limit 17:36:02 f = flag 17:36:32 so 0 9 1+ within 17:36:36 no 17:36:58 you'd need a third parameter 17:37:28 0 9 1+ is the same as "0 10", so you'd need one additional value 17:42:51 'D 'A 'Z within 17:43:25 that would work, if the forth supports ' prefix 17:45:21 reva 17:45:25 : within ( x upper lower-f ) rot dup >r > r> swap >r < r> + -2 = ; 17:45:38 that should work on reva 18:06:25 --- join: probonono (~User@ppp103-111.static.internode.on.net) joined #retro 18:06:25 --- quit: probonono (Changing host) 18:06:25 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 18:10:36 crc I think it is working 18:26:58 crc http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/crenshaw/tiny.html this would be neat to place on your wiki 18:33:09 I can't. copyright issues. 18:39:31 any contributions to the wiki have to be licensable under CC0 terms. The crenshaw stuff can't be 18:40:13 I was mainly talking about the info it provides 18:40:35 I'd still have to be careful 18:52:08 understood 18:54:22 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 18:55:18 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 18:56:14 crc its a interesting thing how a compiler is being built with forth 18:56:37 nothing shaking but interesting 19:03:52 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 19:04:46 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 19:09:03 --- quit: erider (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]) 19:09:40 * docl is trying f.lux 19:14:00 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 19:15:07 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 19:21:39 it works well on the mac 19:24:08 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 19:24:59 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 19:32:10 I'm on linux, so we'll see how it goes. 19:33:46 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 19:34:48 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 19:44:24 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 19:45:10 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 19:47:23 * docl just added a bbcode tag to link to wikipedia 19:53:54 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 19:54:44 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 20:02:11 --- join: jsfb (~jon@pool-96-231-114-178.washdc.east.verizon.net) joined #retro 20:04:02 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:04:59 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 20:08:06 --- part: jsfb left #retro 20:14:10 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:15:08 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 20:24:18 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:24:38 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 20:34:26 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:34:53 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 20:43:56 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:44:43 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 20:53:46 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 20:54:38 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 21:03:44 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 21:04:42 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 21:13:30 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:14:30 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 21:23:50 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 21:24:53 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 21:33:58 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 21:34:35 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 21:43:22 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 21:44:55 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 21:53:36 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 21:54:39 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 22:03:44 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 22:04:46 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 22:13:26 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22:14:43 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #retro 22:15:00 --- quit: probonono (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/10.01.31