00:00:00 --- log: started retro/10.01.23 00:39:06 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #retro 01:16:42 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:16:35 --- join: Guest98349 (n=carlos@201.250.158.153) joined #retro 08:17:59 hi, all, just a newbie question: is it possible to get readline like behavior at the console vm? 08:54:47 --- join: foucist (n=foucist@69.93.127.31) joined #retro 08:54:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o foucist 08:54:56 --- part: foucist left #retro 09:03:33 --- join: bardamu (n=carlos@201.250.153.84) joined #retro 09:18:11 --- quit: Guest98349 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:44:05 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #retro 10:44:47 --- quit: Raystm2 (Client Quit) 10:44:49 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #retro 10:53:00 hi Raystm2 10:57:48 Hey hey docl! how ya been!? 11:09:52 hi 11:10:10 i'm very new to retroforth and forth in general 11:10:46 i'm still trying to understand how can i use the simple block editor that comes with the image 11:11:29 suppose i enter 1 i 2 2 +, should that load "2 2 +" into the first line of the block? 11:12:28 i guess so, but then v is always showing something like +---:---+---:---+---:---+---:---+---:---+---:---+---:---+---:--- 11:12:37 which seems an empty block to me 11:13:43 what am i doing wrong? sorry, i know this is too basic, but i'm starting to feel frustrated 11:25:35 mh, if i download the linux binary and image here http://retro.tunes.org/grab/binaries/ 11:25:49 it works exactly as i expected it to do 11:26:49 the above issue was happening just for a custom vm/console build from sources, any ideas? 11:30:03 more precisely, it seems to be the image that comes with the source bundle, cause the vm i built works fine with the image at grab/binaries/ too 12:07:40 bardamu hi Ray here... give a sec 12:09:19 okay, you got it working and may have discovered an issue. great going. :) crc will like to know. and he'll mostlikely show soon. 12:10:34 i have rebuilt the bundled image with my own build of retro and it fixed the issue also 12:11:34 what do you use to write your retroforth code? the vanilla block editor? another one like rem? an external editor? 12:12:13 i'm a bit lost about how the development process would be 12:51:38 I have used in the past "Programmers File Editor" in Windows, and mostly Nano in *nixes. 12:52:43 I have not written a lot of RetroForth from inside the editor, unfortunately. Seems like a sound program. 14:34:19 Raystm2: I've been pretty good 14:35:44 bardamu: the problem is that the block editor contains uninitialized memory. type new to create a blank blockfile 14:35:50 what have you been up too? 14:36:04 I'm working in Salem now 14:36:14 Ma.? 14:36:53 Witchtrial Salem? 14:37:29 I grew up not too-too far from there. Closer to Conneticut border. 14:38:34 Oregon, actually 14:40:04 I am getting signed up for cryonics. 14:41:02 lemme think, what else... 14:41:14 I got married a while back, I think I probably told you 14:41:41 Congrats!. :) 14:42:05 :) 14:43:36 have you considered cryonics at all? 14:45:33 just did. cryed on it till I slept. :) 14:45:45 lol 14:45:48 um, not really. 14:46:03 I know about it. but I never really gave it the attention it may deserve. 14:46:15 you're probably aware of the basic principles, right? 14:46:32 freeze now, reanimate later when we get the technology to do so 14:47:16 freeze me with out letting the water in my system turn into razorblades in order for possible later resusitation of the tissues and hopely the person. 14:47:38 hopefully.. gosh. 14:47:41 actually there's a process called vitrification that helps a bit 14:47:57 it prevents ice crystals from forming 14:48:11 that would need to happen. :) 14:48:13 so instead of a proper solid, you're a glass (supercooled liquid) 14:48:22 sweet 14:49:02 lol what if at super cooled temps your brain was that much more efficient and you had to experience decades waiting resus. 14:49:03 :) 14:49:33 the world you would re-invent might not be worth leaving. 14:50:11 there are limitations as to how much of your brain will get perfused, realistically, at present. so some of your tissues do get turned to ice, just not all of therm. 14:50:40 hmm, trouble with that is the mammal brain stops working arount 9 C. 14:50:48 I suppose one of the cures one will be waiting for is mush-recovery. 14:51:01 if you could switch to silicon you might have that option... 14:51:08 right 14:51:43 the key idea is that if the information isn't seriously scrambled up, it is still *there* 14:51:52 ya, but now one knows what temp it could possiblly start working again. It's a structure. as a chrystaline structure it might still work. okay fiction over. 14:52:12 most of your body's information is stored in the DNA anyway... it's just the part that you developed in your lifetime that we're worried about preserving. 14:52:49 well. the you. The you you experience now. No one knows if that is preserved. 14:53:00 it's presumed. 14:53:16 true, but can you prove "you" actually woke up this morning? 14:53:31 but transfer to silly-con. I've heard talk of that. 14:54:16 As far as I can tell, everything outside the experience of my brain, including my own body and thoughts... right. it could all be fiction. 14:54:44 I don't think the transfer to digital is possible in the next 100 years... I don't feel like I'd be as much "me" after the transfer. I might with if the process was *really* well researched though. 14:55:15 give it 1000 years and ask me again ;) 14:55:17 Well, you become what -- Spock-like for want of words. 14:55:23 hmm 14:55:30 You become OS dependant. 14:55:32 maybe there could be emotion circuits 14:55:42 why? what reason? 14:55:44 Humanity? 14:56:08 hmm 14:56:19 is it too a fiction? and what if it is or could be? is that better? when the needs of the human are reduced to power cycles. 14:57:02 V-ger with hands and a better sence of purpose. 14:57:38 if continuity of life is a fiction I'm content to believe it is a good one. 14:57:54 there are different things responsible for that sense though... 14:58:10 the fact that we have the same atoms from one second to the next 14:58:29 but from one year to the next, we don't 14:58:41 do we? are they the same or do they have parts that pop in and out of universes or existance. 14:58:54 hmm 14:58:54 you are right. 14:59:14 maybe not the same atoms, maybe just the same cells? 14:59:28 we are composite of something cumulatively different from moment to moment, from ideas to waste materials to frenchfries. 14:59:34 Not even. 14:59:38 or similar enough cells that we think they are the same 15:00:26 even the cells, which you are made waste by the millions each moment, not to forget the multitudes of colonies of other beings that go into constructing you. You too are a universe. 15:00:47 A colony, each one of us. 15:00:50 it's like we're streams of information, continuously passed from one moment to the next 15:01:15 right, and in whole, that info is different from nanosec or less -- on. 15:01:30 we are not the same from moment to moment. 15:01:56 children bare this out best. fastest examples we relate to. 15:02:29 right, but the information isn't ever totally lost -- it just transforms in a smooth, humanlike manner 15:02:38 Literally a contract to resusitate is void by definition. You will not be you. 15:03:05 but "you" isn't meaningful in that sense to begin with... 15:03:27 hmm 15:03:46 the smoothness of the manner the information is passed in is interrupted 15:03:56 kind of like if you pass out 15:04:08 or go into a coma for 10 years 15:04:12 I suppose you try to make a case for the fact that you remember the you you were from time to time as being consistant. But I've changed you forever just a few minutes ago, and now you are not that you you woke up with this morning, and thought you were the same yesterday. 15:04:37 darn! :P 15:04:47 You have those kinds of experiences EVERy moment 15:04:59 but the experience of constant change is also you. 15:05:08 but the changes you've made aren't erasing all that massive amounts of who I was before 15:05:14 you see it as CONSISTant change. 15:05:16 not all at once, anyway 15:05:22 augmenting. 15:05:26 right 15:05:49 so as long as your information isn't deleted completely, you are still in existence in some sense of the word 15:06:08 maybe nobody really dies... the information is subtly stored in the environment for eternity 15:06:25 but each augment takes the place of a wrong set of thoughts you used as a platform to get to the right thoughts so you don't really notice the dumping of the 'bad-worn' cells per se. 15:06:57 true 15:07:00 there is continuity 15:07:02 you are constantly wasting and hopfully replacing. 15:07:12 not of the single cells but of the group as a whole 15:07:35 yes. that is what is perceived as a time-slice and it only exists in our heads as we have defined it as best as we think we experience time. 15:08:29 so... if living is desireable, and seeing the future is desireable, is it desireable to cryopreserve yourself? assuming you've run out of other medical options, of course. 15:09:00 (note that cryonics is practiced only on legally dead patients.) 15:09:16 time is not really real. we live so very very quickly by comparison... and we have all of these events that we measure with time. but its all a 'local event" if you will. One lives so very breifly as if to not have existed at all. But you know you are here and you own a clock. 15:10:21 We go from No Where to Now Here to Now Where and no one can tell if it all really happened or not. 15:10:40 but I know you and you know me and we are real. 15:11:04 Now, THAT's a canundrum -- how ever that's spelled. 15:11:32 If you want to go about re-waking every few centries to see how it all goes... Personally, I love the idea. 15:12:27 :) 15:12:39 I don't like the idea of not existing anymore. 15:12:49 nostalga is typically the fiction writers tool to ruin such plans. 15:12:56 despite the fact that it's probably happening to me all the time in a sense. 15:13:23 I'd still like to exist in *some* sense 15:13:24 friends/family -- things and doing things the way you remember... now all doesn't make sense. that kind of thing. 15:13:44 hopefully with the same neurons and the same memories 15:13:46 docl I don't like that idea of not existing anymore either. 15:14:08 neurons can come and go and do by the billions. I want ME. :) 15:14:11 but I'd settle for just the same memories if it was really the only option. 15:15:02 You know... i've discovered how all of the 5 senses are developed directly from the first, the sense of touch. This is why we Feel. Touch is everything. 15:15:32 whether that thing we touch is real or a thought, same same. 15:15:48 or a humanly made up idea-gram called the heart. all touch. 15:15:56 Ben Franklin said something in a letter to a friend about how he was considering immersing himself in a cask of wine with some good friends, so that they might bring him back in a few centuries and tell him how the whole democracy experiment of his worked out :) 15:16:09 so, i suppose we all just want to keep in touch. 15:16:21 hehe. 15:16:48 there are some brains in jars from back then, which may actually be revivable some day... 15:17:03 if the essential information is still there, why not? 15:17:14 I agree. 15:17:31 I'd like to pop in from time to time. see how the forth is going. :) 15:17:41 Charles Babbage, for example, is immersed in glycerol in the british national museum 15:17:43 people will speak for then. :) 15:18:04 like a canned ham. 15:18:14 I be he'd be thrilled to see what came of the "thinking machines" 15:18:31 true that. 15:18:46 well, what makes a neuron hold its information? 15:18:50 you know. DNA has a special interest for me. 15:18:59 is it an electrical charge, like RAM? 15:19:02 its connection to the rest. 15:19:14 it's in the connections and NOT in the matter. 15:19:23 it's a side effect of the structure. 15:19:33 is it a chemical component, say how some enzymes are tangled together? 15:19:44 or is it the structure? 15:19:48 probably the structure 15:19:58 like you say, the connections between the neurons 15:20:15 you are not your body but some electrical signals you are used to feeling on this constantly changing structure. 15:21:04 you are literally a side effect of a side effect ( and that repeats till we get to BIG bang the ultimate side effect of .. WHat? we don't know ) 15:21:22 people have been cooled to nearly zero degrees, but the brain stops having electical signals at a higher temperature. so it's most likely not necessary to have ongoing electrical activity to survive 15:22:05 that's the hope, I believe. 15:22:43 0 is still pretty high temp in the scheme of things. 15:23:08 true 15:23:26 but at 17 degrees there's no electrical activity in the brain 15:23:30 17 No electrical activity in brain. 15:23:30 14.4 Lowest known accidental hypothermic patient with recovery. 15:23:33 0 celcius, I'm sure you are saying. 15:23:37 9 Lowest artificially cooled hypothermic patient with recovery. 15:23:50 whoa! that's cool. 15:23:50 http://www.answers.com/topic/hypothermia 15:23:55 ty :) 15:24:22 not 0 kelvin, of course :) 15:24:46 now, liquid nitrogen is actually a little colder than we'd like... 15:25:34 vitrification at -136C is better, as that is when everything "stops" (i.e. is vitrified) 15:25:48 liquid nitrogen is -196C 15:26:20 it's just easier and chaper to use liquid nitrogen than run your own freezer at -136C 15:26:48 but that's partly because we're doing it on such a tiny scale 15:27:04 there's only a few hundred people in suspension. less than 200, iirc. 15:27:13 100,000 people die per day 15:28:11 now, if you're familiar with the square-cube law, if we were freezing 100,000 people per day it would be way cheaper as well as easier to maintain -136C 15:28:23 :) 15:28:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square-cube_law 15:29:14 as volume increases at a cube rate, area increases at a square rate 15:29:26 take a refrigerator for example 15:29:30 now... if you could preserve the body fine... but there is no reason the brain has to be preserved. It can, well nurished and cared for, go on operating litterally endlessly. that's what you really want. No nasty "time out". 15:29:45 at 1 cubic meter, it has 6 square meters of exposed area... 15:29:46 I am familure. :) 15:30:26 multiply that volume by 8 and the surface only goes up by 4... 15:30:45 8 cubic meters fits in a 2*2*2 cube 15:31:14 the body is just a somewhat decent platform for developing a brain but if you could replace it... the brain should be fine for many centeries on its own, well cared fore. 15:31:17 for that is. 15:31:52 the surface is 6 2*2 squares... you've basically doubled the efficiency without changing anything about the insulation 15:32:11 hmm 15:32:17 keeping the brain going in a jar? 15:32:21 and it takes about 3 centeries to make a well educated human, in my estimation. Takes that long just to learn the talents one should have for a longish life. 15:32:21 that would rock 15:32:43 I mean, later they could make me a prosthetic body or grow a cloned one. 15:32:43 robotic/bionic body. 15:32:51 right. 15:33:12 constant clone relplacement of some of the finest human specimens ... 15:33:17 even if I had to sit in a jar dreaming for a few centuries, it would be worth it 15:33:20 perfect even. 15:33:44 why? I don't think it will take that long. I think we are on the brink of such things. 15:33:56 but I don't think keeping a brain alive is that realistic (at present), for a couple of reasons 15:34:25 but it already has been tryed. On chicken tissues. 15:34:31 1. you'd need a blood supply, all the nutrients and hormones necessary. 15:34:45 It is more realistic to realize that if you are alive and well now... 15:34:49 maybe if they can transmute cow's blood into human blood or something 15:35:04 you can fully expect that medical science will improve. 15:35:18 or perhaps you could run the human blood through a transgenic pig 15:35:19 hmm 15:35:23 Don't forget, that your grand parents and great grandparents.. 15:35:27 that would be a good replacement for cryonics 15:35:31 in that time period of thier lives.... 15:35:47 life has already more then doubled.. expectancy that is. 15:35:51 2. neurosenescence. the brain seems to age... alzheimer's, stroke, etc. 15:36:03 a re-doubleing takes you to 160. 15:36:14 and in that time there will me many re-doublings. 15:36:24 maybe we can cure neurosenescence sooner than other kinds of aging though? 15:36:50 now that's a good point 15:36:54 You have the potential now, with just modern science that is just emerging, of living for atleast several centuries. This is realisitc. 15:37:32 if we can double the lifespan now, then double it *before* we run out of time, and keep doing so, we would have indefinitely long lives. 15:37:47 In that time, you will find that there will be people that are moving to the opposite idea... kill me now. I'm done. please! 15:37:48 hmm 15:37:51 I'm not so sure 15:37:56 right. 15:38:02 already in the works 15:38:13 there are huge technical obstacles to curing aging. it's a really complicated problem. 15:38:40 what cant' be cured can be replaced. 15:38:47 hmm 15:38:50 cancer, we will see it's end. 15:38:53 not if it is in the brain 15:39:15 replacing the brain deletes the (acquired) personality 15:39:24 makes you less you, more just another identical twin 15:39:42 given enough time, even the brain. and what about a brain that has enough time to work on the solution, rather then passing it down from generation to generation. 15:39:47 which is great if you're talking about genetic selfishness, but not regular selfishness 15:40:07 hmm 15:40:19 replacing part of the brain at a time might be ok 15:40:28 the information might naturally copy to the next piece 15:40:34 that's the idea behind the silicon transfer. 15:40:39 preserving the individual's continuity 15:40:46 you could do it veeerry slowly 15:40:55 replace the structure a piece at a time and test. 15:41:02 should be portable. 15:41:26 people have strokes and re-train new pathways. 15:41:41 they have brain damage and many are still the same person. 15:41:52 now, the demographic of people who are aware and enthusiastic about things like silicon transfer, life extension, etc... is a LOT smaller than the group of people actually signed up for cryonics. 15:42:05 hehe. 15:42:19 no wait, the other way around 15:42:32 "strike that, reverse it" 15:42:50 there's a huge demographic of geeky transhumanists 15:42:52 oh! is that so? 15:42:56 yep 15:43:00 cool. 15:43:08 makes better sense if you ask me. 15:43:10 there's maybe 1000 people signed up for cryonics in the whole world 15:43:19 that many? 15:43:21 right now it is a tiny club, very exclusive 15:43:32 Gosh I coulda been a sales man. :) 15:43:55 possibly 2000 counting all of CI members (not all of which are actually funded for it) 15:44:08 Often, the rich buy things others can't have preciecly for that reason. 15:44:08 there are two organizations that do it 15:44:25 that many? hehe :) 15:44:29 http://cryonics.org/ 15:44:35 http://alcor.org/ 15:44:42 ALCOR I found that one 15:44:49 both nonprofit, but with very different philosophies 15:44:55 I see. 15:45:06 has to be a marketable difference. 15:45:16 alcor requires more agressive funding, i.e. setting aside more than enough for the future 15:45:33 CI lets you fund barely enough if that's all you can afford -- something is better than nothing 15:46:07 not everyone who buys it is rich. it isn't that expensive for most westerners 15:46:17 risk failure for customer count to get more customer. called a "loss Leader" technically. 15:46:25 we're talking 300-1200 per year 15:46:44 cheaper if you are younger of course 15:46:47 sure. 15:47:12 it's life insurance cost + membership dues 15:47:25 http://www.rudihoffman.com/ 15:47:30 If you can get some people to do it, it looks better to prospects to see someone acutally doing it. Those future prospects are your funding and current customers are your loss leader. 15:48:15 Rudi Hoffman is the only person I know who sells life insurance policies specifically for this purpose. 15:48:16 Its a wholey bankable concept. 15:48:43 you know someone that services such a policy? 15:48:48 that's cool. 15:49:03 (know of) 15:49:16 I haven't met him, although I probably will sooner or later 15:49:23 that many? lol sorry, hehe :) 15:49:24 the cryonics world is a small world 15:49:34 I am gathering. 15:49:54 js4 is a cryonicist though, signed up for 15 years. I just found that out a week or two ago. 15:50:13 js4? 15:50:47 he is a guy who just started contributing to retroforth 15:50:54 Jay Skeer 15:51:08 he's cool 15:51:43 Oh? that's cool. 15:51:47 I've missed out. :( 15:52:13 yeah, I've been away for months too... just recently got more active 15:52:17 I've had a bit of a project of my own going, and it's been complicated by a program update. 15:52:48 --- join: foucist (n=foucist@69.93.127.31) joined #retro 15:52:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +o foucist 15:53:00 hey thinfu 15:53:08 just before, I started to do a gui for a more modern retro. 15:53:10 hola 15:53:16 is that thinfu! 15:53:19 yep 15:53:20 :P 15:53:31 how was China? last i heard... 15:53:38 ah it was good 15:53:42 i stayed there for 1 month 15:53:48 i'm actually living in the philippines now 15:53:52 been here almost 5 months 15:53:54 great! I have about that much time there too, over all. 15:54:05 and that too. :) 15:54:19 Raystm2: you're in china or going ? 15:54:20 I liked the Philippines. 15:54:25 been. 15:54:36 I'm in Denver now. moved from Fort Worth-less 15:54:37 ah right, as part of your military tour 15:54:42 ah cool 15:54:44 yeah. 15:55:02 everyone I know has moved since you left. Everyone with-out exception. 15:55:13 Everyone. 15:55:15 docl. 15:55:18 crc 15:55:36 just ask anyone, they moved. :) 15:55:55 What are you doing in the Philippines? 15:55:57 nice :P 15:56:03 i'm saving money ;) 15:56:06 cost of living is so much cheaper 15:56:13 i rent a 4 bedroom hours for $220/mo 15:56:14 I know _THAT's_ right. 15:56:18 and i have a maid for $110/mo 15:56:22 sweet. 15:56:31 homecooked meals ftw 15:56:39 does the maid um -- cum with the room? mine did. 15:56:45 Raystm2: have you heard of "four hour work week" 15:56:48 Raystm2: haha 15:57:01 ;) 15:57:06 lol foucist that's a long week. 15:57:36 I'm with George Jetson, these three hour work weeks gotta stop. :) 15:58:05 always pushing that button. 15:58:27 --- join: erider (n=chatzill@pool-173-69-160-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #retro 15:58:35 haha 15:58:38 nah it's a good book 15:58:46 It's old home week! there's erider too. 15:58:53 hi 15:58:59 it's about having a higher standard of living by freeing up the when and where ;) 15:59:01 No, sorry, no familiarity of the book. 15:59:07 i'm engaging in a bit of geo-arbitrage 15:59:14 philippine living, american earning 15:59:18 relatively 15:59:23 sweet. 15:59:28 i do some marketing on my own stuff to make the money.. when i'm not too lazy 15:59:31 great plan for a single man. 15:59:38 yeah 15:59:46 28 years old and still single, whee ;) 15:59:55 unlike docl and crc 15:59:57 well 16:00:01 Well done! I'm starting to feel a tad jealous, me thinks. 16:00:41 well i'm basically atheist/agnostic or whatever, i don't actually believe in marriage as someone once pointed out to me ;) 16:00:50 you got that drive attitude when it kicks in good. I don't see you having too much trouble doing as you will. 16:01:39 Gosh, I'm with you, for a married man. I might not have done it, given the chance today. But, kids are grown and it's almost like freedom again. 16:01:49 that's good 16:01:50 hey Ray 16:01:58 how have you been 16:02:22 I'm well.thanks. Yourself? 16:02:24 Raystm2: btw, last night i was reading some stuff about this awesome task management system 16:02:35 Raystm2: and i started wondering about your folendar system 16:02:40 I like organizers... shoot! 16:02:47 i want to figure out the dang thing once and for all 16:02:48 you did? 16:03:04 gosh wait to you see the details i've gone to. 16:03:05 i still don't know how it works or how to use it etc 16:03:18 you've never actually explained it to my comprehension 16:03:19 * docl still has no kids... plan to wait til I can get to the asteroid belt. planetside is too crowded to raise a family. 16:03:38 docl: haha, kids happen accidentally without contraceptives 16:03:47 and humans are typically too lazy for contraceptives! 16:04:13 I've started a series of colorForth tutorial videos, 13 currently, at http://youTube.com/Raystm2 , but I have every intention of getting the folendar on tape and uploaded as well. pretty soon. 16:04:21 aint that the truth. 16:04:37 I didn't plan to have kids or get married. it all came out of bad habits. 16:04:39 foucist: well my wife takes them to control her periods, and I'm fine with monogamy 16:04:59 docl: i'm behind you on the asteroid idea though ;) 16:05:07 definitel want to get a girl and go to the asteroid and populate it ;) 16:05:20 or a couple.. 16:05:32 King of your own domain. 16:05:36 haha 16:05:56 yeah polygyny has its attractions, gotta say 16:05:59 Raystm2: you used to have a folendar.com site, do you still have the content? 16:06:02 Http://Thin-F-U.world.asteriod.com 16:06:09 Raystm2: maybe you can dcc me some of your folendar writing or something 16:07:18 I never really had a site but no, everything I once had on computer, besides my colorForth work which was for the most part saved... was lost on a hard disc two years ago. Moving to dry denver has been hard on ALL of my electronics. 16:07:55 oh dang 16:08:23 If you can be patient, I will be doing movies of it's usage. 16:10:10 Raystm2: have you been following the ngaro vm stuff crc has been working on? 16:10:31 it's like a really minimal set of cpu instructions 16:10:39 lol the only thing that survived that crash, from FolE-Ndar was the picture I did draw for you and Sam Falvo, a paint that I saved into a colorForth folder that survived. 16:11:39 docl. No. And I'm sore asshamed. I really am impressed by the work that crc does, and often very amazed at his output and the organization of if all. 16:12:51 But, that being said, things can change quite quickly and I suppose I like to 'keep-up' to crc thru chunks of discovery every couple of months or so. 16:13:42 Raystm2: that's how I do it. and I agree, very impressively organized. 16:13:53 I have a deep desire to build POS/back-office openSores(pun intended) software based on crc's work. 16:14:22 http://code.assembla.com/retro/git/nodes?rev=master 16:14:26 that was the reason for the gui interface I was going to mention that I started a few months back. 16:14:38 ok cool ty. linking... 16:15:12 this is where he's moving it to. it is also at github, as linked from the main retroforth.net page. 16:16:05