00:00:00 --- log: started retro/09.10.15 02:11:43 * Raystm2 initiates habit of looking at back-post in the log. 02:12:08 Hi crc, reading back-post I see your comment about ' --with 02:12:11 ' parameter 02:13:37 " which would let windows users build the image at last" 02:13:53 very cool. 02:14:03 * Raystm2 looks deeper into the .net vm. 02:28:03 * Raystm2 sees the .net build path. 02:59:51 http://tom.bespin.org/src/low-level/opx86.txt <<-- One of the best descriptions of x86 assembler i've ever found .. Tom Novelii's as you most likely recall . :) 03:02:55 A thought that I was trying to compose earlier : after reading your --with comment... 03:04:00 I am half thinking that a Windows application of RetroForth has to be a few things in general. 03:04:39 It has to allow for the update process to include the vm that is the basis of the program. 03:05:24 It should do this cleanly and with out the vm needing to be windows specific. in any way. 03:07:01 I suppose I mean that the window should provide likely functionality in support of the update and development processes: re development... 03:07:56 well.. I'm getting back to that after a bit more thought. 03:09:14 I suppose my example is PythonWin or the Scintilla that it is based on. 03:09:37 * Raystm2 goes and looks at pythonWin dependacies and files. 03:23:32 * Raystm2 downloads Scintilla's SciTe and see's that it's just a matter of interface into RetroForth. No matter the os, 03:27:08 good morning 03:28:06 * crc will watch the channel on his blackberry, but may not be able to actively chat since it's almost time for work 03:28:26 gm :) 03:28:31 no Prob. 03:28:45 * Raystm2 is establishing a back-log habit. 03:30:08 It might be possible to run a Win32 compiled RetroForthWin image and drive it from some version of stripped or fully functional SciTE editor. 03:30:29 * Raystm2 also notes that 03:31:36 The version of PFE1.01 or Programmers File Editor 32bit version that i've been using for years to write code in every language, tho not supported for lo these many years, is quite capable of doing the image driving as well. 03:32:34 But I think that the SciTE output return pane is better. 04:20:57 I suppose I don't know why the Windows version can't just be a Browser driven version. 04:48:15 --- join: neceve (n=ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 04:55:28 You can't save the image with the browser-based vm. 05:01:57 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:09:36 --- quit: virl (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:09:36 --- quit: Raystm2 (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:09:42 --- quit: SimonRC (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:09:45 --- quit: ChanServ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:09:46 --- quit: crc (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:10:57 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #retro 05:10:57 --- join: Raystm2 (n=rastm2@24.8.232.212) joined #retro 05:10:57 --- join: SimonRC (n=sc@fof.durge.org) joined #retro 05:10:57 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #retro 05:10:57 --- join: virl (n=virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 05:10:57 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 05:38:28 You might look at Motu and Uki for ideas if you want a browser based route. 10:18:13 --- join: neceve (n=ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 11:40:53 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 11:46:28 Tonight I'll begin building updated VMs. I'll also package up a current source snapshot of the entire tree. 11:47:28 one question: should the installer/zipfile include the docs + library? 14:17:15 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:09:28 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 15:22:55 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #retro 15:24:11 --- quit: Raystm2 (Client Quit) 15:24:18 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #retro 15:46:24 --- quit: crc (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:48:53 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #retro 15:50:42 home at last 15:54:01 wb :) 15:54:30 I saw your statement about the browser things to look into. Motu and uk1. 15:54:54 I believe you are correct about the browser Idea, tho I've not looked at those two yet. 15:55:00 Doing so now... 15:55:30 http://retroforth.org/motu - live demo w/server-side storage of code/notes 15:55:47 oh cool :) 15:56:13 not found 15:56:43 something missing in the url? 15:57:15 try this one: http://charleschilders.com/motu/try/ 15:57:22 no server-side storage, but it should work 15:57:32 that's it :) 15:57:33 ty 15:57:33 * crc may have disabled the one on retroforth.org 15:57:39 I see. 16:04:40 crc is Motu something you created? I'm not finding anything with that name that resembles what this is. 16:06:29 yes 16:06:44 Oh kay :) makes sence now. :) 16:06:55 it's one of my subprojects 16:07:04 What I learned about scintilla's SciTE is that 1: 16:07:12 and uki is also mine; it's an object-oriented javascript implementation of the vm 16:07:47 there is already a forth language properties listing that makes SciTE languages sensitive ( coloring words and the like) 16:08:04 2 that SciTE can be driven from an external program. 16:10:45 * Raystm2 gets coffee brb 16:14:30 goals of the windows project should help direct the effort. 16:14:57 1 has to be easy for a windows user to understand, even if they have no forth experiance yet. 16:15:25 should be easy for a Forth user that happens to be stuck on windows to adjust the way the want it. 16:15:40 the+y 16:17:05 DOS would have made this an easier project. 16:18:01 If we were still win95 ( even win98) then a dos commandline version would be the idea for a windows version to GUI-fy. 16:18:42 I suppose that's what I had in mind to begin with. 16:19:10 A gui driven commandline windows RetroForth. 16:19:45 Barring that... 16:23:18 i've downloaded the major win32 forths, Gforth and Win32Forth. The latter, I've spent some time following the way everything is created. 16:24:02 A quick one off of an official RetroForthWin, could be just providing the RetroForth subset of forth to a win32forth config file. 16:26:00 Once that is reliable or compatable to the output of a more typical RetroForth, then all of the depencencies can be stripped from the Win32Forth, leaving the basis of a RetroWin, that itself can be encapsulated into it's own dedicated GUI. 16:27:19 that would be difficult to keep in sync though, since it'd have to be a fully separate project (win32forth's internals are incompatible with retro10) 16:27:31 True that. 16:30:34 the vm technically doesn't care what the end user interface looks like 16:30:47 it just provides the opcode interpreter, and basic i/o to the image 16:30:57 I did spend a tiny bit of time following the build of the javaVM. Being that most ( all? no prob'ly no better then most) windows installations could drive that. 16:31:23 hence, in motu, selected code is passed as input to the "keyboard" device 16:31:42 in uki, input comes from strings, and output is passed back as a string 16:31:54 * crc would recommend the .net port over the java port 16:32:07 it's cleaner and faster 16:32:51 yes. sorry, meant .net. was looking at how it built with the retro-image in 3 initial peices, front/or/top bottom and middle. 16:33:38 that's no longer done 16:33:43 no more embedded images ;) 16:33:43 Oh? 16:33:49 Oh? 16:34:15 current source at http://github.com/crcx/ngaro/blob/master/dotnet/retro.cs 16:34:24 thx :) 16:34:55 415 lines, fully compatible with the original C implementation 16:35:15 * Raystm2 needs a new ( to him) trac-ball -- or take this one apart again and find the line-break in the cord. 16:35:54 oh, heck then this can be compiled into a windows program, in c, most likely. I assume. 16:36:07 it should be doable 16:36:16 there's a c implementation that's designed as a library 16:36:33 sweet! ( all in caps and several 10's of exclamation points) 16:36:34 http://github.com/crcx/ngaro/tree/master/libretro/ 16:36:59 I'll get a demo of using the library (under os x/linux/bsd) this weekend 16:41:00 very cool. 16:42:05 hmmm... 16:42:51 sorry, no thought to follow. hmmm. ;) 16:51:11 stupid opera brower hang ... :( 16:54:52 * Raystm2 added a first version of 'add' to his cfMIXsim... has decided that throwing away the last version was productive afterall. 17:10:20 it often is 17:16:02 * Raystm2 figures out that Opera can't view entire libretro/devices.c ag github, loads it in explorer and finds that even explorer has to be set to a compatability mode to see the end of retro_internal_dev_getch()'s first IF line. 17:17:02 the compatability mode ads a slider bar at the bottom of the page that allows me to pan over to the end of that line. 17:21:35 and then I typed cntl-+ and the navigation bars disappeared and everything fits on the page. whoa. 17:47:06 does ie8 support the web demos on retroforth.org? 17:49:10 * crc wonders if they've fixed their javascript interpreter yet 18:09:02 * Raystm2 checks 18:12:26 error= no Canvas support, for each of the 4 demos 18:12:45 even in compatability mode. 18:59:42 ok 20:36:47 --- join: HaruHaru (n=chatzill@c-98-252-69-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #retro 20:36:55 --- part: HaruHaru left #retro 21:16:54 --- join: virl (n=virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 23:03:50 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 23:40:57 * Raystm2 is back 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/09.10.15