00:00:00 --- log: started retro/09.10.11
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07:29:27 <crc> good morning
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10:15:47 <retro-commit> retro10: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-73e8d24
10:15:47 <retro-commit> start building javascript version of image
10:15:47 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/2FSz61
10:15:48 <retro-commit> retro10: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-d8a0b68
10:15:50 <retro-commit> add midp export
10:15:52 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/VC9D7
10:15:54 <retro-commit> retro10: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-94f47f0
10:15:56 <retro-commit> fix image to midp
10:15:58 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/lMQ9j
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10:23:30 <retro-commit> ngaro: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-a16c276
10:23:30 <retro-commit> update manifest, jad file
10:23:30 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/gzyWb
10:23:31 <retro-commit> ngaro: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-c34bb79
10:23:33 <retro-commit> use the manatee for an icon for the midp
10:23:35 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/17LxhJ
10:23:37 <retro-commit> ngaro: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-64a5722
10:23:39 <retro-commit> add back the initial image for midp since its required for building
10:23:41 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/4x27Dr
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10:24:09 <crc> the midp port builds again, and works with the current image (including the editor, once you set the number of blocks)
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11:26:23 <Raystm2> Hi. I've been up all night and my consentration is dotty at best. 
11:26:44 <Raystm2> I've had the pastes your've sent open for the last two days and have still to read much of it.
11:26:59 * Raystm2 are = to truly useless sometime.
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11:48:06 <crc> ray, that's ok
11:52:16 <Raystm2> lol thx. I'm out of meds til my dr appointment.
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11:52:56 <Raystm2> I might not beable to trust what I say. what else is new ;) 
11:53:06 <crc> I was able to get most of my prescriptions refilled
11:53:17 <Raystm2> Most?
11:53:24 <crc> still two that aren't until wednesday, when I get paid again
11:53:35 <Raystm2> I see. yup
11:54:04 <Raystm2> The medical industry and the pharmacuticles have us at their mercy.
11:54:26 <Raystm2> Personally, I like living. :)
11:54:48 <Raystm2> Besides, a new Retroforth comes out in a week or so. :)
11:55:04 <Raystm2> And I wouldn't miss it for the world.
11:55:29 * Raystm2 was thinking that he is a fan of crc and Sam Falvo and Chuck Moore and I sure others.
11:55:39 <Raystm2> I+m
11:56:39 <crc> it'll be longer than a week before 10.3 is released
11:56:44 <Raystm2> :)
11:56:48 <Raystm2> big plans?
11:57:13 <crc> no, but lots of testing remains to be done
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11:57:23 <Raystm2> Oh sure of course. 
11:57:29 <Raystm2> Understand able.
11:57:40 <Raystm2> or understandable that is.
11:58:41 <crc> the metacompiler may have raised small bugs, I need to make sure it's solid before it can replace 10.2
11:59:03 <Raystm2> I see. 
11:59:06 <crc> though I'll be updating the VM binaries in the near future
11:59:18 <Raystm2> good good.
11:59:57 <crc> though, I have not yet found any bugs from the metacompiler, so everything should be ok for normal use
12:00:53 <Raystm2> I'm all for normal usage :)
12:02:18 <Raystm2> when I read the pastes I end up ( this is what takes so long ) going to the code and reading all of the dependancies.
12:02:42 <Raystm2> The includes the .h headers... I try to find the libraries 
12:03:51 <Raystm2> Usually if I can't find a starting point from the code itself like some word I need info about ( ---reveal--- comes to mind ) 
12:04:16 <Raystm2> then I'll start with the make and build commands and aproach it that way. 
12:04:40 <Raystm2> I realize this is irrational, but it's sorta the way I read a book. Cover to cover every word in a row.
12:05:35 <Raystm2> I swear some ghosts ( not really ) jam sowing needles into the soles of my feet on occasion. 
12:07:43 <Raystm2> I was not present when you added ---reveal---- but i recognise this structure you've used in the past. like a local vocab that is amending or prepeding even ... an aliase.
12:07:46 <Raystm2> alias
12:08:06 <Raystm2> I remember extenting your chess game with the method.
12:12:02 <crc> {{ ---reveal--- }} were adapted from code from Quartus
12:12:30 <Raystm2> I seem to have memory of such activity.
12:13:01 <Raystm2> I was a bit thrilled when Neal got suddenly interested in working Retroforth.
12:13:35 <Raystm2> It was fun trying to keep up with both outputs of you gentilemen
12:16:12 <Raystm2> pretty soon I'm going to try out some type-by-voice software and see if I can't use it with some joy or not. I don't give it much of a chance. I would have to be pretty darn good. But it's still a chance I must try.
12:17:03 <Raystm2> it not I would have to be pretty good. well, ya I too.
12:17:08 <crc> neal's code won't work on retro10
12:17:18 <crc> far too much has changed
12:17:27 <Raystm2> I got you.
12:18:43 <Raystm2> lol I think that's part of what I like about your Retro style. You have your reason for breaking from software that is currenlty working in previous -- now nearly completely unrelated yet similar Forths.
12:19:48 <Raystm2> And there is method to the madness. It has to feel right. Work right. Flow even.
12:20:18 <Raystm2> Like Chuck says at the .com site. Weighing the options.
12:20:33 <Raystm2> and not being afraid to abandon them.
12:20:45 <Raystm2> even after years of steady growth.
12:21:01 <Raystm2> Forth is sweet. 
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12:21:31 <Raystm2> It's small enough,  in some implementations, that if you know what you are doing, you can see the Forth in any of them :)
12:21:43 <crc> I reached the end of the line for the old codebase; it had too many layers of hacks and design issues to be updated further without a rewrite
12:22:33 <Raystm2> Even better. THere it is. A reason. 
12:26:37 <crc> I took a year off of work on it before I started work on retro10
12:26:48 <Raystm2> I didn't know.
12:26:58 <Raystm2> what did you do in the interim?
12:27:29 <crc> I worked on toka and the original prototype of ent
12:27:40 <Raystm2> ent is new to me.
12:27:58 <crc> ent gets used more than any other application I've released
12:28:18 <Raystm2> I didn't know that as well. :)
12:28:19 <crc> about 50 times per hour
12:28:25 <Raystm2> sweet.
12:28:28 <Raystm2> what's it do?
12:28:47 <crc> provides information, tools, and such via email
12:29:15 <Raystm2> Wow. neat.
12:29:37 <Raystm2> I totally miss that period of your developing.
12:29:44 <Raystm2> miss+ed
12:30:56 <crc> http://stroud.freehostia.com/peek.html lists most of the things ent provides
12:31:14 <Raystm2> ty checking it out..
12:39:54 * Raystm2 is playing with ent. :)
12:42:40 <Raystm2> I remember a document somewhere showing how email is integrated into the web so well that nearly every protocal and be operated by it. Like, searching for tons of web pages when You want a return of several thousand to gather info from and stuff like that there.
12:44:18 <Raystm2> This is pretty neat I have to say :)
12:44:47 <Raystm2> the concordance is great.
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14:04:19 <retro-commit> ngaro: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-b8a4a2f
14:04:19 <retro-commit> no longer need the TODO
14:04:19 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/8ZjG7
14:04:20 <retro-commit> ngaro: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-297eb3d
14:04:22 <retro-commit> drop embedded image from the java port
14:04:24 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/2D67pk
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14:08:44 <crc> this will probably be the last real update I do to the java code
14:59:20 <crc> all tests I've done indicate that the new image is as reliable as the 10.2 image :)
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15:38:54 <SimonRC> crc: shouldn't you do one of those compile-with-self-several-times checks
15:39:08 <crc> SimonRC: I have done so
15:39:09 <SimonRC> like they do with C compilers and stuff?
15:40:09 <SimonRC> if you use algorithms that exactly the same between different compilers, then a compiler conpiled with either compiler should itself produce bit-for-bit identical output either way
15:40:12 <SimonRC> I think
15:40:26 <SimonRC> but you already did that
15:40:29 <SimonRC> cool
15:40:40 <crc> the current image has been rebuilt using the metacompiler about 100 times now
15:40:53 <crc> no differences in the resulting image :)
15:41:10 <SimonRC> how Chuckish is RetroForth supposed to be
15:41:10 <SimonRC> ?
15:42:11 <crc> retro is not intended to be like colorforth, though I have been influenced by cmforth
15:42:30 <SimonRC> I suppose the use of a VM was a bit of a hint
15:42:34 <SimonRC> :-)
15:42:57 <SimonRC> do you know of anyone using Retro for Real Work yet?
15:44:05 <crc> nope
15:46:56 <crc> I've done some web development stuff (prototypes for an online store), but that's the only non-hobby thing I've used it for
15:47:33 <SimonRC> how fast is the VM?
15:47:44 <SimonRC> it doesn't JIT or anything does it?
15:48:07 <crc> no JIT yet, but Mat is working on that with his VM implementation
15:49:47 <crc> my vm is fast enough for my purposes, but Mat's is significantly faster
15:59:04 <crc> a 1000000000 cycle loop takes 2m30s with my vm, and 1.235s with Mat's
16:15:26 <SimonRC> now, off to bed
16:23:30 <crc> have a good night
17:26:54 <sixforty> If building a new display port, is there a reason to prefer building with xlib over xcb?
17:27:22 <sixforty> (other than many will need to add xcb, while having xlib already)
18:24:09 <crc> use anything you like :)
18:30:37 <sixforty> heh. I'm trying to figure out what I like.
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20:11:28 <crcx> time for bed; goodnight 
20:12:52 <sixforty> nite, crcx
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23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/09.10.11