00:00:00 --- log: started retro/09.10.10
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09:21:08 <retro-commit> retro10: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-5e539b2
09:21:08 <retro-commit> we can now build the retroImage with no additional tools
09:21:08 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/1KjD1o
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09:28:30 <SimonRC> ooh
09:51:53 * SimonRC goes
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10:54:16 <crcx> testing jlIRC on my blackberry
10:54:46 <crc> test 2
10:55:18 <crcx> there's a small lag sending messages, but receiving them is instant.
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12:01:27 <crc> I'll be away from the computer for several hours, but am hoping that my karere client will be able to remain up during that time
12:06:28 <crcx> If anyone has questions on the new metacompiler, I'll do my best to answer them. 
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18:27:22 <crc> back home
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18:31:21 <crc> hi SimonRC 
18:31:26 <crc> *sixforty
18:31:35 <crc> tab completion bug :)
18:32:26 <sixforty> right now I'm too buggy all 'round to see the difference
18:32:33 <sixforty> thx for the greets
18:32:53 <crc> you had good timing. I just got home a few minutes ago
18:49:59 <sixforty> know of a "unix" system that doesn't both "uname -ms" and "grep"?
18:50:48 <crc> not offhand
18:51:42 <sixforty> might be a way around having all users specify os/arch for installer
18:52:08 <crc> makes sense
18:52:13 * crc will look into doing this
18:52:16 <sixforty> although once one starts autohelping, there's no end (like you don't know :P)
18:56:37 <sixforty> I think the same script can autodetect windows and branch.
18:57:20 <sixforty> but nevermind that - I'd do it myself out of curiosity.
18:57:30 <crc> only if the windows users have bash or ksh and such installed
18:57:57 <sixforty> nah. #!/bin/sh would set an errorlevel. Test and branch.
18:58:33 * crc must research this
18:58:34 * sixforty has spent far too much time on "The Friendly Edlin Page">
18:59:36 <sixforty> I suggest just making it work well for *unix. If I can trick it into dos/windows or such without breaking it, fine; if not, fine.
18:59:46 <crc> ok
19:04:18 <crc> what does uname -ms return on your box?
19:04:39 <sixforty> NetBSD i386
19:05:15 <sixforty> (thus "grep" for "86" and grep -v for "64")
19:05:55 <sixforty> this uname also accepts -p, but that's an extension
19:07:12 <sixforty> now I'm curious about what linux uname would return, but I'd have to reboot
19:16:20 <Raystm2> Hi. My running Cygwin retruns
19:16:29 <crc> my linux system returns:
19:16:33 <crc> Linux i686
19:16:37 <crc> and OS X:
19:16:40 <Raystm2> CYGWIN_NT-5.1 i686
19:16:43 <crc> Darwin i386
19:18:41 <sixforty> Raystm2: What does a plain command shell return for uname -ms? (not found?)
19:20:33 <Raystm2> The return is:
19:21:05 <Raystm2> "  'uname' is not recognized as an internal or external comand, operable program or batch file.  "
19:21:28 <Raystm2> command not comand sorry.
19:21:53 <Raystm2> obviously w/o arguments
19:21:54 <sixforty> thus, attempting to run uname would set errorlevel. thx.
19:22:06 <Raystm2> indeed.
19:22:10 <Raystm2> yw
19:26:31 <Raystm2> Command Prompt command VER calls windows system version to type
19:26:39 <Raystm2> C:\>ver
19:27:01 <Raystm2> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.12600]
19:27:57 <sixforty> right. Looking for the simplest test to split win/dos from unix in the same script
19:28:26 <Raystm2> Sounds sound :) like a good idea. 
19:38:45 <crc> new version: http://paste.lisp.org/display/88495
19:49:28 <crcx> No use of grep, but it should work on all supported systems. 
19:54:48 <sixforty> supported == no
19:55:04 <crc> no?
19:55:21 <sixforty> (heh. wait.)
19:55:54 <crc> it should cover all the unix-like systems except iPhoneOS, which I haven't got uname results for yet
19:56:01 <sixforty> if uname and uname -m match up, include supported == "yes" in thenlist
19:56:21 <sixforty> at end, if supported == "no" then, source
19:56:39 <crc> that makes sense
19:56:50 * crc goes back to work on it a bit more
20:01:39 <sixforty> might wanna name "supported" such as "binary_avail" or so
20:02:03 <sixforty> (something this simple to build is "supported" on almost everyting)
20:02:34 <crc> makes sense
20:03:39 <crc> a question arises:
20:03:44 <crc> how to download the source?
20:05:35 <crc> I use wget on haiku and linux, and ftp -a on netbsd and os x
20:06:00 <crc> my linux install won't work with ftp -a for downloads
20:08:46 <sixforty> how'd we get the script in the first place?
20:09:06 <crc> the script has to download the pieces though
20:09:46 <Raystm2> java available?
20:10:04 <Raystm2> http://www.javascripter.com/faq/operatin.htm
20:10:10 <sixforty> Raystm2: sometimes yes, often no
20:10:22 <Raystm2> Right. 
20:11:01 <Raystm2> I can't seem to find anything better then uname
20:11:26 <Raystm2> ( the search itself is not turning up much )
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20:13:29 <retro-commit> ngaro: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-f74ce87
20:13:29 <retro-commit> text
20:13:29 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/3BW02Q
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20:18:30 <crc> http://paste.lisp.org/display/88495#1
20:18:39 <crc> with support for building from source
20:24:07 <sixforty> so it's make, and no longer "build"?
20:24:44 <Raystm2> Something has to make build :)
20:24:58 <crc> sixforty: make uses build
20:26:01 <Raystm2> I'm stumped, and so apparently are the people at MONO. They don't seem to have any better solution to determining the OS then stated here. 
20:26:28 <Raystm2> Best advice I found was to NOT look for the OS but to look for the features required instead. 
20:26:48 <crc> I can put together a windows installer package (.msi) for windows users
20:26:49 <Raystm2> This keeps your code running when the OS is running on something other than you test for.
20:27:40 <Raystm2> If anybody needs and auto-install it's us Windows users :)
20:27:47 <Raystm2> and-d
20:28:46 * crc will work on it then
20:28:51 <Raystm2> lol 
20:30:05 <Raystm2> How deep can the Retro dependancy go?
20:30:27 <Raystm2> I mean, what's it really really need. 
20:30:37 <crc> retro has two distinct parts: the vm and the image
20:30:39 <crc> the only part specific to an os is the image
20:31:56 <Raystm2> I'm so undereducated here...
20:32:07 <Raystm2> because one is what ELF and the other is an exe?
20:32:32 <crc> that, and libraries being linked, etc
20:32:42 <Raystm2> I see, ty
20:32:47 <crc> no problem
20:34:32 <sixforty> test and record command exit status (which I've not yet learned to do correctly in unix)
20:34:50 <sixforty> if errorlevel gt 0 (fetch the windows installer)
20:35:23 <Raystm2> lol will a bat file run in linux?
20:35:46 <sixforty> restore command exit status ("errorlevel" created a non-harmful error for unix)
20:37:11 <sixforty> so, as soon as you've got it installing correctly on .*, some wiseacre ports it to dos and plan 9. Now what? :P
20:37:23 <crc> cry :)
20:37:39 <Raystm2> hehe
20:38:32 <sixforty> If only as an exercise, I'm going to port either retro (perhaps only ngaro) or cF to dos.
20:38:49 <sixforty> that's dos-16. 32 wouldn't be near as much fun.
20:39:16 <crc> if you port ngaro, I should be able to build you a 16-bit retro system to go with it
20:40:08 <sixforty> nah. I think it should use the same system.
20:40:42 <crc> the retro image assumes 32-bit cells
20:40:48 <sixforty> Part of the idea is to be flexible as to "cell size".
20:40:48 <crc> so you'd have to account for that
20:40:55 <sixforty> right. thus the fun.
20:41:00 <Raystm2> trying to run a "bye.bat" ( which only calls exit ) in my Cygwin/CygwinDrive/C  <--- same as windows --->C:\  retruns bash: bye: command not found.  <-- this means you can run the windows installer first and when it fails you can continue with the regular installer.
20:41:00 <crc> ok
20:41:48 * crc would probably just keep the windows installer as a separate piece to avoid confusing windows users
20:42:04 <Raystm2> cool. good thinking, I'm sure :)
20:42:41 <sixforty> Raystm2: up to reading #c4th, or should I re-post here? :)
20:43:13 <Raystm2> I'm in the room, no need for re-print, thank you for the heads up :)
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21:02:39 <crc> hi virl
21:03:14 <virl> hi, how are you doing?
21:04:33 <crc> pretty well, all things considered
21:06:16 <Raystm2> hello virl :)
21:07:19 <virl> finally I'm involved in a forthy project. A 4k demo which uses forth
21:07:50 <crc> cool
21:07:59 * crc has finally written a metacompiler for retro
21:26:35 <Raystm2> yeah!
21:38:42 <Raystm2> "Resistance is useless" <-- Doug Addams HHGG.
23:11:57 <virl> cool a metacompiler? 
23:12:04 <virl> can I get it somewhere?
23:12:25 <Raystm2> Yes I believe there is a link in the log.... checking for you.....
23:12:28 <Raystm2> please hold...
23:13:03 <Raystm2> http://paste.lisp.org/display/88495#1   <---- link in log :)
23:13:22 <Raystm2> also commit retro http://bit.ly/3BW02Q
23:14:21 <sixforty> 3 the pastebin is a proposed unix install script, wip
23:14:38 <Raystm2> D'oh, ty
23:14:57 <Raystm2> and so it is... reading...
23:15:36 <Raystm2> I meant to read this when crc posted but I was facsinated by the porting problem from earlier.
23:45:37 <sixforty> might be http://github.com/crcx/retro10/blob/master/source/meta.retro
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