00:00:00 --- log: started retro/09.09.23
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12:52:35 <Raystm2> Hi crc. I got cygwin, and I'm practicing with it now. 
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15:30:34 <Raystm2> Hi virl! :) I got a cygwin and i'm reading "info info". what are you up to today? anything?
15:31:03 <virl> what do you mean?
15:31:11 <virl> trying to get something done.
15:31:31 <virl> god I fear university, when it starts in two weeks
15:33:06 <Raystm2> I down-loaded a cygwin Unix environment for my Windows box. I'm reading the info file on how to use info. I was asking if you were doing anything that you felt like telling me. Read no malice :)  Where will you go to school, if I might ask?
15:33:52 <Raystm2> ( those are the kinds of questions I tell my daughter not to answer. ) 
15:35:10 <Raystm2> What year are you in at school? What will you study this year?
15:38:36 <crc> hi ray
15:38:46 <crc> cygwin can be useful
15:38:51 <Raystm2> hi Charles. Reading info. 
15:38:55 <crc> do you have git installed in it?
15:39:32 <Raystm2> checking ... what : git --version  \ on command line?
15:39:46 <crc> yes
15:41:43 <Raystm2> info git brings me to the directory so I assume it's not loaded. updating...
15:42:01 * crc is preparing to reduce the number of classes in the core retro back to 3
15:42:05 <crc> git = really good version control system
15:42:22 <Raystm2> ty for putting me on to it. :)
15:42:54 <crc> np
15:44:09 <Raystm2> just thinking here, can't I use ( currently using cygwin website setup.exe running over net ) ... I use wget to update or some such?
15:44:34 * Raystm2 has wyet and looks in info wget
15:44:54 <crc> not sure
15:45:04 <Raystm2> okay, going with website then :)
15:45:04 * crc hasn't used cygwin in a long time
15:46:12 <Raystm2> now I remember distinctly passing over all of the version progs. I assumed you would tell me which would work best in Retro.
15:46:43 <crc> I used darcs for a long time, but eventually switched to git due to issues with darcs under windows
15:49:02 <Raystm2> I see. ty for that. Just now downloading and setting up.
15:49:08 <Raystm2> I remember darcs :)
15:50:13 <Raystm2> Okay git installed. ver 1.6.1.2
15:50:36 <Raystm2> gotta like net-install. sweet.
15:51:13 <Raystm2> You know, when I think back on how far computing has come in my life time... It's a bit awesome to me. 
15:51:21 <crc> now you can clone my retro repositories :)
15:51:33 <Raystm2> excellent!
15:52:03 <crc> git clone git://github.com/crcx/retro10.git
15:52:05 <crc> git clone git://github.com/crcx/ngaro.git
15:52:08 <crc> git clone git://github.com/crcx/wheke.git
15:52:17 <crc> image, ngaro vm, and library
15:55:14 <Raystm2> Oh sweet, the commands lol. I was just at your site wondering if I get the x86/linux Ngaro.
15:55:27 <Raystm2> cool thank you.
15:56:16 <crc> the repo contains all copies of ngaro source that are currently in use, except for Mat's experimental one (more complex, but has goodies like JIT compilation)
15:56:28 <Raystm2> first one done.
15:56:37 <Raystm2> I see.
15:58:19 <Raystm2> cool now I have nagaro retro10 and wheke ( pronunciation?) in my home/owner@Holly file
15:58:43 <Raystm2> gotta like git, that was easy.
16:00:20 <Raystm2> Yikes I suppose I dont have nano yet, getting...
16:07:12 <crc> back to 3 classes :)
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16:07:23 <retro-commit> retro10: 3Charles Childers 07master0 SHA1-6ee7bf9
16:07:23 <retro-commit> drop .compiler and .primitive classes; these can be added via an optimizer if desired
16:07:23 <retro-commit> http://bit.ly/wkSO1
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16:07:24 * crc will make the others part of the optimizer library module
16:13:38 <crc> I also recommend installing "make", "gcc", and "binutils" if you want to do any C coding under cygwin
16:14:09 * crc suggests getting mono if you want to build a windows version of the ngaro vm: http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
16:14:28 * crc notes that it's close to the C version in speed, but tends to be a bit more reliable on windows systems
16:19:50 <Raystm2> so again I can run git command for retro10 and i'm caught up?
16:20:00 <Raystm2> make -- going for make ...
16:20:02 <Raystm2> ty
16:20:11 <Raystm2> gcc binutils
16:20:14 <Raystm2> yup
16:20:15 <Raystm2> going
16:20:15 <crc> cd retro10
16:20:17 <crc> git pull
16:20:29 <Raystm2> Ah111 sweet.
16:21:35 <Raystm2> that's cool.
16:23:10 <Raystm2> You use nano for everything or do you have another editor ( that's what took so long -- I kept looking under text rather then editor catagory. D'oh. ) 
16:23:49 <crc> mostly nano
16:24:32 <crc> I occasionally work on my own editor (see http://github.com/crcx/rune/blob/master/source/te.c), but nano is more stable
16:25:13 <Raystm2> automake?
16:25:16 <Raystm2> oh okay cool.
16:25:26 * crc doesn't use automake
16:25:38 <Raystm2> cool.
16:25:41 <crc> a lot of GPL'd source trees do though
16:26:05 <Raystm2> okay your te.c i s loaded in opera for digestion when I go to read tonight. :)
16:26:22 <Raystm2> Good to know. ty
16:26:23 <crc> I use make + build (http://github.com/crcx/build) for handling dependencies, etc
16:28:39 <Raystm2> Oh-kay I see.  that's neat.
16:28:49 <Raystm2> had binutils getting rest now.
16:30:59 <Raystm2> So, I should wrte a little script that pulls those three directories you gave me. I will teach myself how to do that very soon.
16:34:51 <Raystm2> gnu make 3.81 installed gcc 3.4.4 ( has a c++ compiler i see ) and binutils ( no version given ) 
16:35:12 <crc> you should be able to build things now :)
16:37:29 <Raystm2> mono -- on it's way down.
16:37:57 <Raystm2> Ya, that's cool. I've not written any code other then colorForth in a while and I can't wait to do "other" stuff. 
16:38:30 <crc> I'm going to have the web-based colorRetro running by monday
16:38:47 <Raystm2> Really thinking about Retro-fy-ing that BUSI-PACK forth business packate I once told you about.
16:38:55 <crc> complete with canvas support, so graphics are possible with it
16:38:58 <Raystm2> neat, I'll test it for you. 
16:39:10 <Raystm2> Oh! well, that's neat, too.
16:39:44 <Raystm2> installing Mono, 2.4.2.3 with gtk#2.12.9
16:40:00 <Raystm2> I'm thinking this one might require a restart when It's done. 
16:41:44 <Raystm2> So, mono is a way to write compliant code for many OS's ?
16:42:04 <crc> mono = open source implementation of microsoft .NET
16:42:07 <crc> yes
16:42:18 <crc> one binary, runs on any system with .NET or mono installed
16:42:19 <Raystm2> Oh okay. got you now. 
16:42:25 <Raystm2> sweet.
16:42:36 <crc> like java, but faster and easier for console developers like me :)
16:42:50 <Raystm2> water is getting muddy over in the oS pool. 
16:42:51 <Raystm2> Sweet.
16:43:22 <crc> I mostly target ngaro now :)
16:43:34 <Raystm2> right. I understand.
16:43:46 <Raystm2> still getting mono...
16:44:00 <Raystm2> windows programs are always so HUGE. 
16:44:23 <Raystm2> oh no restart after all, I was wrong.
16:44:32 <crc> good :)
16:44:53 <crc> cd ngaro/dotnet
16:44:56 <crc> gmcs retro.cs
16:45:08 <crc> that should leave a retro.exe that you can run
16:45:44 <Raystm2> really? cool cus I don't understand a word of it. lol but I'm doing it.
16:45:54 <Raystm2> well, I know cd :)
16:46:14 <crc> gmcs = mono c# compiler
16:47:16 <Raystm2> cool. I guess I need to create the ngaro/dotnet folder, or wait is that something I do with the mono some how?
16:47:43 <crc> that should have been created when you did "git clone git://github.com/crcx/ngaro.git"
16:47:55 <Raystm2> do it again?
16:48:00 <crc> no
16:48:08 <Raystm2> okay. ls to be sure on my end...
16:48:13 <crc> it should already be there
16:49:08 <Raystm2> bone head is still in the /retro10 D'oh! 
16:49:14 <crc> cd ..
16:49:16 <crc> cd ngaro/dotnet
16:49:17 <crc> :)
16:50:13 <Raystm2> going for gmcs...
16:57:18 <crc> any luck?
16:57:58 <Raystm2> yes. created retro.exe
16:58:03 <Raystm2> executing
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16:58:26 <crc> it'll give an error
16:59:38 <crc> wget retroforth.org/binaries/Images/crc.gz
16:59:38 <Raystm2> sure unable to find image. 
16:59:43 <crc> gunzip crc.gz
16:59:57 <Raystm2> in the nagaro/dotnet file?
16:59:58 <crc> mv crc retroImage
17:00:02 <crc> sure
17:00:06 <Raystm2> okay cool.
17:00:24 <crc> (this is my current image as of today, so it's what I'm using here)
17:01:56 <Raystm2> cool. cool -- retroImage now exists.
17:02:14 <crc> now run retro.exe
17:02:44 <Raystm2> running in a mono command prompt in windows.
17:03:17 <crc> good :)
17:03:42 <Raystm2> ( words -- list of words )   :)
17:05:22 <Raystm2> dinner! ;) 
17:05:33 * crc is going to be going soon
17:05:33 <Raystm2> brb
17:05:54 <Raystm2> okay good coz i got TUNS and tons of reading to do. 
17:06:13 <Raystm2> see ya when you see me seeing you.
17:07:13 <Raystm2> backspace leaves 
17:07:18 <Raystm2> aaaaa
17:07:32 <crc> backspace should work, normally
17:07:33 <Raystm2> for a five letter word backspace over.
17:07:54 <crc> try not to backspace too far... ;)
17:08:08 <crc> retro crashes easily, but restarts quickly
17:08:08 <Raystm2> :)
17:08:55 <Raystm2> I bet. I bet! it's the mono command line editor and I prob'ly need to turn on some functionality somewhere. Windows used to have DOSkey.
17:09:44 <Raystm2> DOSkey would remember typed lines and give you cursor access in a line. I don't seem to hvae any of that here just yet.
17:10:13 <Raystm2> bye exits normally
17:12:04 <crc> you can save the image
17:12:06 <crc> so you could do:
17:12:09 <crc> : hello ." hello, world!" cr ;
17:12:11 <crc> save
17:12:29 <crc> and the 'hello' word will be there when you start retro again
17:12:32 <Raystm2> Trying that :)
17:12:44 <Raystm2> just tried 'e'
17:12:52 <Raystm2> am I now in an editor
17:12:56 <crc> e = evaluate block
17:13:01 <Raystm2> lol sorry. :)
17:13:17 <crc> same editor from retro 7.x days and earlier ;)
17:13:29 * crc has used this editor (in various forms) for years
17:14:01 <crc> you can use 'forget' to remove words from the dictionary
17:14:07 <crc> e.g.,
17:14:09 <crc> forget hello
17:14:25 <crc> removes hello, and anything defined after it. 
17:21:31 <Raystm2> I've crashed it twice trying to enter ( I make a mistake linke   ---  ."hello,    <-- and it crashed after spacebar. )  I should have exited then but I didn't. trying again.
17:22:43 <crc> that shouldn't have crashed it
17:25:07 <Raystm2> Okay, indeed I'm having some sort of trouble getting text entered. 
17:25:18 * crc wonders if mono is less stable on windows than on os x :(
17:25:19 <Raystm2> after definiton I hit enter...
17:25:34 <Raystm2> no cr no ok
17:26:03 <Raystm2> goes to begining of the line that should have cr-ed and is blank.
17:26:22 <Raystm2> no exit now. or no bye now.
17:26:27 <crc> wget http://retroforth.org/binaries/x86/windows.exe
17:26:31 <crc> try this binary
17:26:38 <Raystm2> okay. :)
17:26:57 <crc> that's a native (C) implementation rather than a .NET implementation; it may work better
17:27:16 * crc will investigate this tomorrow when he's at his windows system
17:27:56 <Raystm2> on board ... starting...
17:29:38 <Raystm2> access denied. 
17:29:58 <crc> ?
17:30:23 <Raystm2> I thought it might be a name conflict with windows so then I renamed to winRetro.exe -- tried again and then still Access denied. 
17:30:34 <crc> that's really odd
17:30:53 <crc> do:
17:30:54 <crc> ls -l
17:31:01 <crc> and paste the line for the winRetro.exe
17:32:20 <Raystm2> -rw-r--r-- 1 Owner None   110368 Aug 26 08:13 winRetro.exe
17:32:30 <crc> so it downloaded correctly...
17:32:35 <crc> odd that it won't work
17:32:59 * Raystm2 getting plate of dinner brb
17:33:18 * crc will have to do some research on this :(
17:33:37 * crc is going to go to bed. I'll see if I can have a solution for you tomorrow
17:34:36 <Raystm2> gn :)
17:34:43 <Raystm2> time to read....
17:34:45 <crc> goodnight
17:36:32 * Raystm2 is going to read up a bit on mono and be sure that I've got nothing more to set up.
17:40:35 <crc> one other idea: install microsoft's .NET framework and try running retro.exe again
17:41:06 <crc> (microsoft's doesn't include the gmcs compiler; but having mono and microsoft .net installed won't cause any conflicts)
17:41:19 <Raystm2> cool
17:41:36 <Raystm2> I'm pretty sure I have it but check....
17:42:02 <crc> the current version is 3.5 SP1
17:42:11 <crc> http://www.microsoft.com/NET/
17:42:35 <crc> I'm using mono on the mac, but microsoft's on the windows box at work
17:43:36 <Raystm2> newest .net framework 3.5 sp1  that I have.
17:43:52 <Raystm2> 1.1 and 2.0 and 3.0 ...
17:43:53 <Raystm2> :)
17:44:13 <crc> mono retro.exe
17:44:39 <crc> would force it to run under mono instead of the microsoft .net framework
17:44:52 <crc> or just retro.exe to run under microsoft's framework
17:45:04 <Raystm2> wow I can't type in it . 
17:45:15 <Raystm2> now the letter is staying in one place 
17:45:26 <crc> odd :(
17:45:27 <Raystm2> I get an ok prompt and a linefeed
17:45:31 * crc will see tomorrow then
17:45:49 <Raystm2> :) see ya then
17:46:34 <Raystm2> I'm going to update at windows too. See if any of this stuff I downloaded yesterday and today triggers any updates.
17:55:08 <Raystm2> mono can't open assembly 'winRetro.exe' : File does not contain a valid CIL image.   <--- after typing  at the prompt *:\mono winRetro.exe
17:56:11 <crc> mono retro.exe
17:56:16 <crc> not winretro.exe
17:56:19 <Raystm2> ya :)
17:56:23 <Raystm2>  I did both
17:56:39 * Raystm2 set up a couple helpful bat files
17:57:01 <Raystm2> looks like mono retro.exe works on first execution. 
17:57:12 <Raystm2> checking for sure.
17:58:03 <Raystm2> first execution of a new mono window. but that didnt' just now work so trying again. 
17:59:10 <Raystm2> okay!
17:59:12 <Raystm2> success
17:59:26 <Raystm2> with out mono -- retro.exe by itself works.
17:59:47 <Raystm2> with mono bad keyboard. :(
18:00:42 * Raystm2 ran retro.exe did helloworld and forgot it. that after having tried bye successfully three times.
18:00:50 <Raystm2> and then endfig with bye 
18:00:51 <Raystm2> worked
18:01:04 <Raystm2> but not with mono, so I got some reading to do.
18:03:58 <crc> so it's working with microsoft .net, not with mono
18:04:14 * crc wonders if there is a bug in the console support under windows + mono
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19:20:09 * Raystm2 trying to "repair" his .net Framework files
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23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/09.09.23