00:00:00 --- log: started retro/09.09.21 08:23:02 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 09:27:37 --- join: cavva (i=d461382a@gateway/web/freenode/x-atqxntgodwmpeehh) joined #retro 09:27:46 hi all 09:28:34 just courios on how to build a custom image for the ngrao vm .... 09:28:47 where to start from? 10:09:37 --- quit: cavva ("Page closed") 12:25:40 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@24.8.232.212) joined #retro 13:42:20 --- join: cavva (i=5895f58b@gateway/web/freenode/x-zdwtqcpgvewcaawj) joined #retro 13:42:36 hi 13:45:32 Hi cavva, how are you today :) 13:46:00 fine thanks 13:46:11 good. 13:47:10 i'm just making my first steps with forth 13:47:18 OH! very cool. 13:48:32 crc the owner of this chat is very knowledgable, and I try to be as helpful as possible, so -- Welcome. :) 13:48:49 thanks 13:49:10 yw -- Have you chosen a forth that you can learn with, yet? 13:49:59 i'm reading "Starting Forth" and for now i'm using retro to test some things 13:51:17 and alse reading this http://www.annexia.org/forth 13:51:28 Cool, starting forth. :) 13:52:40 lol that's a new one on me, but, there just might be a few less total Forth's in there world a there are experianced users. 13:52:51 there=the 13:53:12 a+s man my typing today. 13:53:47 Oh wait ive seen this before. 13:54:01 ? 13:54:11 the jonesForth. 13:54:44 i've got it while reading some specs about the tamarin project 13:55:31 they talk about forth, a rapid search on google and i've found his forth implementation 13:55:43 I was just looking over jonesForth word list and it's fairly close to a standard forth so I don't see any problem with you using that to learn on. 13:55:49 my "forth adventure" starts here 13:55:58 I see cool, YES! indeed. hehe 13:57:13 but retro has the ngaro vm, it's really interesting too 13:57:52 I should tell you that there is also a #forth channel, a ##forth, and a #concatenative, ( the catagory that forth falls under in relation to other prog-langs comparison ) 13:57:53 when i saw a vm implemented in JS i've said "wow" 13:58:07 Ya, crc is quite prolific. 13:58:39 That retro runs on EVERYTHING. phones, web pages, in nearly every os... I think it even runs native still. 13:59:05 concatenative... i've heard this term about a web fremework... 13:59:33 The #concatenative it usually used by Slava Pestov -- the creator of the Factor language, and his development team and users. 14:00:10 yes, factor, you're right 14:00:12 #forth is fairly religous ( sp? ) ( as in church ) and the ##forth is usually not . 14:00:54 factor is fascinating, indeed. 14:01:06 and slava, just like crc, is a pretty great guy. 14:01:39 personally i'm into minimalist programming so I usually use forths that are operating systems themselves. 14:03:02 this term, the forth as operating system, is something that for now i can't full understand ... 14:03:17 and it's used many time in the book 14:05:43 Because Forth is usually based on chip operations, just like assembler, it uses the very same chip operations that a tradional operating system, sort of like Windows, or Linux. What we are talking about is operating the frame buffer for the display directly, the HDDisks directly, more... 14:06:32 Is that helpful or can I tell you more? 14:07:03 helpful thanks 14:07:24 yw. 14:07:46 Many forths drive the BIOS directly. 14:07:51 so you are not for ANS forth? or is something not related .... 14:08:04 I believe that is Retroforth model. BIOS. 14:08:56 I actually like the idea of a standard because it sells projects to worried managers, but I typically use any forth I want and that includes NON standard forths like retro. 14:09:21 retro versions usually end up with a standard set that you can included. 14:09:46 I don't know where crc is at this point with standard words for retro10, newest version. 14:10:04 Have to ask him when he gets "home", if you will. :) 14:10:30 but ANS forth is only a set of "unified" words? 14:11:34 If you mean that unified is as set of words designed well to work together, indeed it is. If you mean that unified is that users of ANS agree on the word set... for the most part yes. 14:13:32 SwiftForth, by Forth INC. ( started by Chuck Moore, and Elizabeth Rather, ( and one other person, name escapes me )) is prob'ly the defacto industrial forth. But there are other forths that are standard like Gforth, win32Forth, and others. 14:14:42 Gforth is one forth that happens to works in Windows as well as *NIX. 14:17:25 i've tried it, but i prefer retro for its small, and some time when i'm curious i start digging it's sources to see how something is implemented 14:18:14 I suppose, I don't know for sure, but I am willing to bet that most people that write forth that they hope others will use, may use words found in Starting Forth in order to make a new convert. But this doesn't have to be the case. 14:18:25 Yes, I agree. 14:18:42 I like the "little" forths so I can keep it in my twinkie head. lol :) 14:18:54 :) 14:19:01 Win32forth has more then 10000 words! 14:19:14 most used to interface with windows. 14:19:23 the windows api that is. 14:19:43 really a lot of words 14:20:14 my focus now is on the ngaro js implementation 14:20:33 very cool :) 14:20:59 in minutes you will know more about it then I do, but crc will be glad to help, i'm certain. :) 14:21:22 lol :) 14:23:18 there is a point in the sources where he use the term "MachineForth", it's something the i've see in other "forth talk", do you know what is MachineForth? 14:24:20 (as you see i've also some problem in typing) 14:25:19 Indeed. The class of forths that are considered machineForths, ( cmForth, others ) are based directly on the computer chip operating codes like assembler. Every word in the system will eventually work it's way down to a chip op. All words in the system are either a chip op or created from words that are. 14:26:48 MachineForths are used to run computers that do things. 14:27:08 like many of the devices used in space. 14:27:18 satelites and the like. 14:28:28 They usually are reduced ( eventually -- before deployment ) to a dictionary that is made up of just the machineCode and all of the forth dictionary headers will be removed, for space savings as they are not needed by the machine, but by the human. 14:29:38 ah, ok, the last paragraph was really clear. thanks 14:29:40 These systems are usually created on a development computer ( like yours ) and the sent to a target ( the satelite ) stripped and ready to go. Durning development the target is run by the dev machine. 14:30:04 yu 14:30:04 yw even lol 14:33:30 in such a system the headers usually only exist on the dev machine and not in the target. -- clarity 14:34:56 Raystm2 thanks for your help, now i'm going to shutdow the pc, and thinking some other questions for the next time :) 14:35:33 you are very welcome, please come back at your convenience. :) bye 14:35:40 bye 14:35:48 --- quit: cavva ("Page closed") 15:06:36 --- join: Raystm2_ (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #retro 15:06:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Raystm2_ 15:14:28 --- nick: Raystm2_ -> Rasytm2 15:15:21 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 15:26:36 Ray: still having problems? 15:32:06 I made some updates: use \ instead of ` and see if that works 15:38:14 will do. ty. :) 15:38:19 going now... 15:38:46 lol you get home an hour earlier for me now because I live an hour later from you now. Sweet> :) 15:39:00 also: to forward email to your gmail: 15:39:03 nano .forward 15:39:10 enter your gmail address 15:39:13 and save, then quit 15:39:25 OH! sweat. 15:39:26 future messages will be passed to gmail rather than stick around on the server 15:39:28 sweet even 15:39:38 * crc deleted the spam while you were offline 15:39:47 .forward is something you wrote. :) 15:40:01 no, it's a part of exim, the mail software I'm using 15:40:23 you did a nice job re spam cuz I only found one. lol it was huge. 15:40:27 ty 15:41:02 I did check it a few times a long time ago but then I wasn't getting any mail yet because the site was too young. 15:41:19 Then I stopped checking. D'oh! 15:42:11 I get my mail forwarded to my blackberry now :) 15:42:31 The mail I did get said stuff like " cool site -- like it" and "can you help me with my OLPC OX in colorforth" and the like. 15:42:41 that is really Sweet indeed. 15:42:45 I want a blackberry. 15:43:28 they're costly, but work nicely 15:43:28 Hell i'll take a blueberry. strawberry. wait Nan got me some cranberry / rasing combo pack, now where is that ... :) 15:43:43 rasin 15:44:12 * crc has http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/blackberrycurve8900/ 15:44:30 and my wife is getting http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/blackberrypearl8200/ soon 15:45:21 We should build the 'Rasin' RetroForth Application Systems Internet Network. " lol 15:45:27 checking out _berries 15:48:58 Camera (3.2 MP) 15:48:59 Wi-Fi® Support 15:48:59 Built-in GPS 15:48:59 Enhanced Media Player 15:48:59 Video Recording 15:48:59 BlackBerry® Maps 15:49:01 Wireless Email 15:49:03 Organizer 15:49:05 Browser 15:49:07 Phone 15:49:09 Corporate Data Access 15:49:11 SMS/MMS 15:49:13 Wow! 15:50:17 when will they ad TV remote and vehicle keyless entry and start? 15:50:31 not sure :) 15:50:45 * crc runs retro on his, along with an irc client and ssh client 15:52:01 That might be a worthwhile retroforth project. Sweet. does the thing have microwave 'tween blackberry comms like did the palm? 15:52:23 no 15:52:25 ok 15:52:44 but it doesn't need IR, since you can just use email/sms to transfer data 15:53:06 right. make a phone call, I get it. 15:53:25 phone in quotes, meaning network. 15:54:48 yup 15:55:39 I like your wifes screen size and the clock on the outside is cool. folds. 15:55:50 very nice. 15:55:58 You like the bigger keyboard? 15:56:01 yup. I need the full keyboard though 15:56:04 yeah 15:56:09 makes admin work via ssh easier 15:56:28 understood. 15:59:00 Lol a competent retroforth programmer could run an entire busness by themselves ( small oviously ) as they could run the business sw from the phone and spend all day arranging for shipping you possibly tangible warehoused product. ( better product would be software but oh well. either would work. ) 16:00:34 I've recently seen an old forth program Busy-Pack. Inventory and Invoiceing, and mailing list. 16:00:43 What more? 16:01:28 Mailing list is the customer list and can create lables and is linked into invoicing which is linked into inventory and some on the ML can be vendors to you. 16:01:58 yup 16:02:22 * crc would migrate it to a web-based setup, and optimize for the blackberry browser 16:04:00 There of course is bookkeeping that needs to be done for state/local and US taxes, but you can send your inventory and Invoicing ( purchasing is reverse invoicing into inventory) and get a cpa to do all of that. a busness always needs an accountant, a lawyer, and a banker and suppliers. 16:05:22 indeed crc, that's a great idea for a project as well. could be worth something and once it's done a variable size of helpers could be trained to answer questions from a databaseKnowledge base like MicroSoft and everybody else... that based in India. :) 16:05:42 The business that is the business that makes a business a business. 16:05:50 software. 16:06:10 GOOD software, functional software. 16:07:13 * crc will do this someday 16:07:24 lol please append to list AlwaysNeeds ( customers! most importantly) 16:08:44 You can do it from anywhere. everywhere, all the time any time. 16:08:50 lol 16:08:57 i'm a dang commercial. sorry. 16:09:59 not a problem 16:10:19 I get excited... like a puppy. 16:10:39 but i don't have a puppies energy anymore and I soon crash. 16:11:14 This is why I want to beable to run a software business, because if I have to I can do it as an invalid in bed, and if "I" can anyone can. 16:12:56 daughter wants computer so I will quickly test retro, do the .forward thing and transfer the controls. leave you email about the colorRetro. Gn :) 16:16:32 night ray 16:16:55 wow would you believe I can't type the \ in there either?!? weird. 16:17:07 odd, try this: 16:17:12 key \ . 16:17:22 and tell me what code shows 16:17:56 I locked up, re -- log in. 16:18:22 cd colors 16:18:23 ./retro 16:18:25 key not installed. 16:18:26 key \ . 16:18:39 okay trying that... 16:20:20 ok: key | then I try to hit the \ and it does an enter rather then print the key but I can... 16:20:32 ok: \ | and that works 16:20:50 key should pause until a key is pressed. 16:20:55 * crc will do some tests later 16:21:07 cool. :) 16:21:15 we'll get this working :) 16:21:28 .forword next 16:21:37 yes! indeed! fun for all! 16:22:14 * crc will try a different tactic: web based colorRetro 16:22:22 done checking possible recent mail... 16:22:23 (soon) 16:22:27 cool! 16:22:43 No mail for raystm2 16:22:46 gn :) 16:22:51 goodnight 16:24:23 logout 16:24:50 --- quit: Rasytm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 23:12:07 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #retro 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/09.09.21