00:00:00 --- log: started retro/08.10.26 01:55:46 --- join: neceve (n=ncv@dyn-89.136.41.150.tm.upcnet.ro) joined #retro 08:34:43 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend") 08:46:55 --- join: lukeparrish (n=chatzill@74-36-210-33.dr01.hmdl.id.frontiernet.net) joined #retro 08:46:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o lukeparrish 09:19:03 I have an error report for retro 10 (from the binaries). It doesn't respond properly to the enter key. 09:19:24 I'm using windows vista on an amd turion-x2 processor 09:20:10 The first time I press enter (or control-M) it does nothing, but the second time it returns to the beginning of the line without triggering any output. 09:21:56 also, the web version from the retro homepage doesn't recognize the enter key or the backspace key -- it translates them both to gibberish. 09:25:17 oddly, space bar is treated as a return, but with something else added -- it returns "? not found" when I try to use .s 09:25:39 I am suspecting that it may be a unicode issue 09:26:13 --- quit: lukeparrish ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]") 12:28:56 --- join: lukeparrish (n=opera@74-36-210-33.dr01.hmdl.id.frontiernet.net) joined #retro 12:31:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +o lukeparrish 12:40:43 I'm having the same issues I reported earlier under XP, using both Firefox and Opera 9.61. 12:42:33 --- join: virl (n=virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 12:42:43 hi virl :) 12:43:34 hi 12:44:01 * lukeparrish is docl 12:44:14 haven't been here for a while 13:08:02 you probably know that I work on a forth system for games and demos, do you? 13:09:34 I think I remember something like that 13:09:51 how is it going? 13:10:51 fine, I'm modularizing it at the moment and then I'll begin with making it metacompile itself 13:11:16 It's probably been a year since I did anything forth-related... I did pick up some TCL though 13:17:35 does freenode have any cryonics related channels? 13:29:03 there we go, #cryonics 13:30:10 so you wana deep freeze your body? 13:31:06 essentially, yes -- once our current medical science runs out of options for keeping me alive 13:33:11 of course, freezing is not the technically correct term, as water expands when frozen. preventing it from doing so using antifreeze is possible, though. the fluid then becomes a form of "glass" or super-cooled liquid. (glass is actually an extremely slowly flowing liquid.) 13:34:47 the expansion of water when it turns to ice is due to it's unique crystalization properties. most things actually shrink when they get cold, but water expands slightly. 13:37:55 normally metal and other solids are crystaline as well, but they are more dense compared to the molten form. That's one reason we're lucky the oceans are made of water -- otherwise they'd be mostly frozen due to the ice always sinking... 13:39:47 anyway, when you freeze living tissues it ruptures cells as the water expands. So creatures that routinely survive deep-freezing tend to have a sort of antifreeze in their tissues. 13:40:10 the trouble is that antifreeze is poisonous to a living cell 13:41:10 so if you revive someone, you have to quickly get the antifreeze out as soon as you raise the temperature 13:50:25 on the other hand, some people think it would be just as good if you could simply read the memories of your corpse into a computer, then simulate your personality based on that. Reading the data for that purpose may be achievable without ever raising the temperature of the body, since nanomachines can presumably function at super-cold temperatures. 13:54:39 I guess the attractiveness of this option hinges somewhat on your beliefs about the afterlife... 13:55:16 if there is nothing after death but oblivion, it makes sense to try and stay alive... 13:55:54 however, most people I ask about this respond with "I know where I'm going" 13:56:25 implying that since they're going to heaven, they should not try to use cryonics to stay alive longer than they otherwise would. 13:56:48 (most people I know are christians) 13:58:18 but this doesn't make sense to me, since we all go to the doctor to get our life prolonged whenever we get sick. people who don't do so are usually considered nutcases. 13:59:56 (be back in a bit) 14:25:08 ok I'm back 14:27:03 anyway. it's not so much that I want to be deep-frozen, as I can't understand why anyone would want not to be. it's a chance of prolonging life, and no more unnatural than any other medical procedure. 14:32:30 ...not trying to attack or disrespect the opposing opinion. I'm just saying I have a hard time seeing it, logically speaking. 14:36:00 one thing cryonics is NOT: immortality 14:36:33 even provided they cure old age, disease, and most common causes of accident, you can't stop death entirely. 14:37:24 sooner or later (maybe thousands or millions of years later) some kind of accidental death or homicide will occur 14:38:16 it's a mistake to think of something as "not ever going to happen" just because it is statistically millions of years in the future 14:38:47 so if you believe in hell, and think you're going there when you die, you aren't going to get out of it by using cryonics. 14:40:47 I bring this up because some christians have used the argument that it is a bad idea because it reduces people's fear of hell, thus increasing their chance of going there... 14:42:29 presumably, arguments that hellfire is real will work just as well on a rational person who is about to undergo cryonics (if not better, since they are concerned about the future) as on a rational person who thinks of their life as ending in old age 14:45:13 in either case, your life ends at *some* point, so ending up in a state of eternal damnation would be equally tragic. fear of death that is based on fear of hellfire is not going to be alleviated by this method. 14:46:50 another argument used is that it doesn't matter if you can extend your life by this method, because heaven is better than life. 14:50:32 but like I said earlier, that would work just as well against any course of medical treatment that prolongs life. 14:52:04 the other take is the thought that we go to our afterlife (heaven or hell) immediately after death. therefore, any reanimated being would be either a) soulless, or b) taken from their place of bliss/torment. 14:52:28 In either of these instances, we have a very interesting situation from a scientific perspective... 14:53:41 the person with memories of heaven or hell would be able to reveal intricate details of the afterlife. since it would be a repeatable experiment, you could get the stories of multiple revived people and compare their accounts to see if they match. 14:56:20 the other possibility, that the revived person woulf be soulless, would provide something to compare non-revived people against, i.e. determine what constitutes a soul. 15:17:36 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:17:30 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@210.188.173.245) joined #retro 19:56:02 http://www.alcor.org/Library/videos/vitrification.html 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/08.10.26