00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.12.14 00:23:22 Quartus, I'd like to know one thing, is forth VM able to behave as meta-evaluator? 01:16:58 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:19:44 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-69-149-62-12.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #retro 04:37:59 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 05:45:33 --- join: _timlarson (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #retro 06:15:32 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #retro 06:16:11 Good morning, good friends. 06:22:36 morn' 06:28:54 Daily Forth affermation ( stolen and adapted from Joel Osteen - paster of LakeWood Church Houston, the largest church in the U.S.) "This is my Compiler/Interpreter. I am what it says I am, I have what it says I have, I can do what it says I can do. Today I'll be taught a Word in Forth. I boldly confess my interpreter is alert, my compiler is receptive, I'll never be the same, in Chuck's name." 06:28:58 good morning. 06:43:24 are you religious? 06:48:37 No, not really. But I have to say, I do like to watch Joel speak, and oftern catch an episode of his TVChurchSession, whatever that's called. 06:48:52 He's good at motivational. 06:49:23 There's a reason he's _that_ popular. 06:51:46 uh huh 08:25:24 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #retro 08:31:08 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 09:23:42 virl :) 09:23:55 virl : you had a question yesterday... 09:24:09 virl: why ! and @... 09:24:19 I believe I have an answer. 09:25:44 As you might imaging, if you have a way to address memory then a very basic way to boot up a forth would be to use a store function and a fetch function. You have to store something before you can fetch it. ! is the 1 key and @ is the 2 key, each shifted. Make sence? 09:32:35 hehe 09:33:43 If that were the way Chuck was booting up Forth systems when he came up with @ and !, it might be remotely plausible. 09:33:47 It wasn't, though. 09:46:11 You know better then I. It was a theory. I stuck out my neck to help someone. :) 09:46:26 Heh. 09:46:42 If the theory held, # and $ would be the next two most common words. 09:47:58 If they were used to pre/suf-fix a number, they just might be. 09:48:04 They weren't. 09:48:57 Again, I defer to your greater experiance. 09:54:07 @ is 'at', and '!' is right next to it, and that may have been the rationale in BCPL. 09:56:11 In the hardware syntax for the Burroughs B5x00-series BCPL, rather. 10:20:58 Excellent. 10:21:19 http://www.colorforth.com/HOPL.html <-- should also help. 10:27:25 the 1 key? 10:27:36 you mean number '1' shifted? 10:28:19 note that ! came first, after his exposure to the b5500. Fetching was automatic at that time; when he added 'fetch', it was @, again from the b5500. 10:32:23 I haven't had a chance to read this yet... 10:32:30 but sure. 10:34:55 I believe forth is primarily a child of the B5500 stack architecture, and BCPL, with a few other lesser influences. 10:35:22 BCPL was quite influential. 10:41:40 * Ray_work makes note of that in private window to research BCPL later 10:41:47 thanks Quartus! :) 10:57:41 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-188-165.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 11:05:54 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 11:05:57 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 13:21:51 no problemo 13:23:28 bcpl was typeless and portable, both of which Forth also inherited. 13:24:26 b was derived from bcpl, and b went on to become C. 13:47:31 --- quit: _timlarson ("Leaving") 14:06:10 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 14:51:06 you know, I did know that. 14:51:22 Oh yeah, I believe I read that in the K&R 14:51:26 Maybe not. 14:51:42 Might have been ESR's site, or K's or R's site. 14:52:09 Some history of C, at any rate. 14:57:31 digital mars 14:57:51 * absentia is a language junky. 14:58:05 as in D, as in 'hahahahahahahah one more than C is D'. 14:59:22 you know what the name for the unix command "dd" ... is? like "ls" is "list" files. 14:59:50 it's "convert and copy" .. but,seems... "cc" was already taken. 15:00:22 (can't do dc -- calc took it, can't do cd, change dir took it...) 15:00:39 and heaven forfend more than two characters be used. 15:00:49 yup 15:00:59 I think 1 and 2 char commands are dangerous 15:01:06 too easy to FF (fat-finger) them 15:01:27 especially as they were doubtless motivated by poor typing skills. 15:02:11 dunno... back when I was at the uni -- whenever the secretaries got behind in their work -- the unix geeks would be called in to type in the stuff 15:02:13 :-> 15:02:51 Never encounterd a sysadmin who could type. 15:02:58 really? ha. 15:03:10 * absentia points at his das keyboard. 15:03:18 two-fingered, back-ass typists who would laboriously highlight & paste from scrollback rather than retype. 15:03:49 a previous co worker of mine.. shared a unique/uncommon past-time.. when we were bored (at the computer) -- we'd do typing tutors to relax. 15:04:03 Maybe you were just overly fond of Mavis Beacon. :) 15:04:06 word invaders, etc.... you can do 90wpm to relax... 130-150 to be focused. 15:04:29 I use to practice by transcribbing lyrics as I listened to music. 15:04:44 yup. got plenty of the beacon. 15:05:50 I remember I was going in to some templ agency a while back.... and they wanted me to take a typing test (on a real type writer! how quaint) .. so one of the ladies gave me a piece of paper to warm up on... I asked for a second sheet a short while later -- she said use the back, I said I already did..... she said I didn't have to take the typing test. 15:06:13 Last time I took a typing test it was on a selectric. 15:06:22 type writers are difficult to use 15:06:33 but the typing tests that don't allow you to backup to correct are annoying as hell. 15:07:33 now if I could just think and input forth code at that rate 15:07:58 I've had quite a few newcomers to Quartus Forth worry that graffiti input would be too slow for them to write code. 15:08:15 ya, I could never get into graffiti 15:08:28 or that zomming letter one, or the quarter/8ths one... etc. 15:08:47 That wasn't the issue, they were fine with it, but they thought they could code at the speed of typing. 15:08:57 ah 15:08:57 Which is pretty tough and probably a very bad idea. :) 15:09:17 I use to tell people that when I am editing code, I'm painting with letters. 15:09:30 Did you? Did they back away slowly with a worried look? :) 15:09:46 actually, non tech people seem to nuderstand that. 15:10:03 I think you're reading into their polite but tense smiles. :) 15:10:09 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-69-149-62-12.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #retro 15:10:11 Like mine here :) 15:10:14 hmm. perhaps. 15:24:59 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 15:26:21 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:26:26 Going home, bye. :) 15:26:34 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:22:58 --- join: swalters (n=swalters@169.139.217.100) joined #retro 16:23:26 --- quit: swalters (Client Quit) 17:50:31 --- quit: nighty (Client Quit) 17:50:49 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend") 17:59:21 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #retro 18:53:29 --- join: thinfu (n=wunderwa@bespin.org) joined #retro 18:53:51 --- part: thinfu left #retro 19:24:58 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 23:11:42 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-188-165.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 23:19:52 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 23:20:01 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/06.12.14