00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.12.07 00:09:14 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 02:22:19 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:39:30 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-70-110-168-177.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #retro 02:39:41 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:39:50 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-70-110-168-177.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #retro 02:40:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 02:40:28 Raystm2, Tammie is doing quite well. She can now walk without crutches or a walker, but still needs the base 03:03:17 Ne0N_Pulse ask 03:03:51 --- quit: Hegzolomonga ("Leaving") 04:07:27 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #retro 04:34:22 --- quit: erider ("I don't sleep because sleep is the cousin of death!") 04:58:29 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend") 05:01:20 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 05:48:55 --- join: _timlarson (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #retro 05:50:29 --- nick: _timlarson -> timlarson_ 05:59:43 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 06:13:02 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #retro 06:15:52 Good morning 06:45:03 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 07:35:48 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend") 07:51:19 --- quit: timlarson_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:51:20 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #retro 09:00:44 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 09:12:33 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=Miranda@136.160.196.114) joined #retro 09:56:42 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:59:48 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 10:04:10 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #retro 11:10:04 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 11:10:10 --- join: Snoopy42_ (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-174-043.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 11:17:42 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 11:17:51 --- nick: Snoopy42_ -> Snoopy42 11:52:44 --- join: swalters (n=swalters@169.139.217.100) joined #retro 11:53:35 --- quit: swalters (Client Quit) 12:15:52 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-514d7663.l2.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #retro 13:36:17 --- quit: timlarson_ ("Leaving") 13:45:32 --- join: futhin (n=wunderwa@bespin.org) joined #retro 13:45:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:47:36 thin! 13:47:46 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 13:48:26 futhin! a guy came into sitepoint yesterday and wondered why no-one every says anything. :) 13:48:44 heh 13:48:53 because they're forthers! 13:48:58 :P 13:49:12 I told him I was only in there for you. So I wouldn't lose contact. 13:49:14 forthin idlers! 13:49:16 ah 13:49:26 that I didn't know the first thing about sitepoint. 13:49:35 heh 13:49:37 what was his nick? 13:49:47 ummmm 13:50:15 I have it in the log at home, if you wish I'll make a note in my personal chat and fetch it for you later, maybe to your email? 13:51:01 nah not that important :P 13:51:12 Kynlem 13:51:17 sorry, I had it here. :) 13:51:23 ah ok 13:51:54 so what's up? 13:52:06 what's with the existentialist editing key? 13:52:08 i have a g3 ibook now 13:52:11 did you know that kc5tja got hired at Google? 13:52:23 oh neat! /me looks that up on google. 13:52:27 600mhz/384mb ram, got it off ebay for $300 :) 13:52:39 very cool, nice snag! 13:52:41 its fast enough that i've got the latest mac os running on it (10.4 Tiger) 13:52:46 12" 13:52:54 portable ;) 13:53:20 http://www.ltrebing.de/misc/ibook/ibook.jpeg 13:53:44 half the reason i got it is because of textmate (an editor) 13:54:15 apparently its really useful for ruby on rails development 13:54:21 thats awesome 13:54:24 zpg? I'm not sure i know what an existentialist editing key is? :) 13:54:25 that kc5tja got a google job 13:54:47 an existentialist editing key is a gun! 13:54:50 oh heck ya, that's nice. 13:54:56 hahaha. 13:55:01 Ray_work: he's refering to the topic "the editing key is 'despair'" 13:55:40 --- topic: set to 'RetroForth | Pastebin @ http://retroforth.net/paste | The editing key is 'make love not war, be merry, sing along'' by futhin 13:55:41 --- quit: rabbitwhite (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:55:46 ya k is a ... what Ray... oh a programmer now for google making 2wice what he asked for and you know that's good. 13:55:56 niiiice 13:55:59 thats freaking great 13:56:02 he deserves it 13:56:09 oh oh oh 13:56:11 zpg 13:56:58 zpg if you wish to edit things like crc's retroforth wiki or the retroforth paste bin ( tho I think it's disabled for that now ) you need the password 'dispair'. 13:57:09 keeps the noise of spam down. 13:57:24 i remember kc5tja was applying for a google job for quality assurance, so did he end up with a different job then? 13:57:41 no I think you are right. 13:57:59 --- topic: set to 'RetroForth | Pastebin @ http://retroforth.net/paste | The wiki editing key is 'despair', please spam us' by futhin 13:58:28 --- topic: set to 'RetroForth | Pastebin @ http://retroforth.net/paste | The wiki & paste bin editing key is 'despair', please spam us' by futhin 13:58:29 he's in c4th-ot 30 or so minutes ago if you wanna update. 13:58:47 i PM'd him 13:58:53 cool. 13:59:29 yikes bz be back when i can . ;) 14:09:13 --- nick: nanstm -> tiff 14:19:06 good evening 14:20:08 hey 14:20:09 hi crc. 14:20:14 How's Tammy? 14:20:40 hi crc, how are you doing 14:20:53 --- topic: set to 'RetroForth | Pastebin @ http://retroforth.net/paste | The wiki & paste bin editing key is 'despair'' by crc 14:21:19 tammie is doing pretty good, though the kids are being kind of annoying 14:21:51 futhin, I'm keeping quite busy 14:21:52 Kids? Surely not! :) 14:28:47 if you want something done, give it to a busy person! 14:30:39 anyway 14:31:04 i was looking at bashforth 14:31:07 but its 78k 14:31:26 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 14:31:45 i wonder if speuler did a minimal version of bashforth 14:31:59 hi all 14:32:07 hey erider, how goes it 14:32:18 going well 14:32:33 had a test 14:32:58 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #retro 14:36:42 i was looking at bashforth for a 'portable' forth across all unix platforms cuz i have g3 ibook too, but its 78k, i want something more like 5k 14:36:45 heh 14:37:34 futhin: do you use vim 14:37:38 * crc has been working on a forth-like language in C... 14:37:52 erider: yup 14:37:56 I was just going to say, it seems like crc's forth VM thingy is coming along well... :) 14:37:59 tested on x86, x86-64, and MIPS, under the common unixes 14:38:01 cool! is it look good crc 14:38:13 oops 14:38:16 ok nice, how small is that? 14:38:20 its looks good :) 14:38:36 about 18k on a 32-bit system 14:38:50 though I've not done size optimizations 14:39:31 how many words defined? 14:39:57 62 14:40:13 143 with the standard bootstrap (3k, including comments and whitespace) 14:40:16 hmm, that seems like a lot for a VM? 14:40:51 it is a little more than a barebones vm. I have a small decompiler, file I/O, ffi built in as well 14:41:25 what makes it a VM and not a forth? 14:41:46 I was the one who said VM, actually 14:42:10 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 14:42:15 it started as a vm 14:42:17 tathi: crc mentioned to me he was going for a VM a few weeks ago 14:42:17 which it was back in August when I looked at it last :) 14:42:26 or few months* 14:42:43 strip out ffi and decompiler and it's ~10k, plus 3k for the bootstrap 14:42:49 looks like it's more similar to ATLAST now, though I haven't gotten time to read through it carefully since I got back from the farm. 14:43:38 mainly i was thinking of creating an interactive version of the todo.sh from todotxt.com which is 13k in size 14:43:52 so i feel compelled to keep my version under 13k 14:44:22 there's a screencast you can check out if you care ;) 14:44:41 my language could be simplified further too 14:45:07 * crc has been exploring various implementation ideas with it, not all of which will matter for specific uses 14:46:11 helmar has a version of HelFORTH in C, but it's about 50k after stripping 14:47:50 Doubtless containing text messages, etc. 14:50:25 about 30k is source compiled on startup (including help strings for most words) 14:50:53 There's six times as much other stuff as there is kernel code in Quartus Forth, and the lion's share of that is heavily compressed. 14:51:05 The kernel is under 20k. 14:57:01 futhin: you can't count the size of the core language in your script, unless you add the size of bash to todo.sh. :P 14:57:19 That's with floating-point, etc. Could be taken down to 16K or lower; all a question of what gets left out. 15:00:17 tathi: yeah :) 15:00:29 i guess i could aim for 20k or something 15:00:49 Is bashforth useable? I imagine it's amazingly slow. 15:05:24 Quartus: slow for what purpose? 15:05:31 its probably faster than ruby ;P 15:05:58 Don't know. 15:07:49 i mean bashforth seems fast enough for general forthing, farting around in the interface etc ;P 15:08:48 alot of the time i load up retroforth for calculations or if i want to find out the line & column width of my terminal 15:14:54 --- quit: erider (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:15:13 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 15:16:15 I have a floating-point module that runs atop the ANS layer for rf. 15:21:00 myself, when I use Forth for quick calculations, I'm inclined to use floats rather than scaled integers. 15:22:49 yeah thats a good point 15:23:38 definitely annoying working with integers for a quick calculation 15:33:18 I'll even use an infix translator if I'm just quickly entering an expression that's already in infix. 15:34:48 Baden's OPG, I like. 15:35:45 BYE 15:35:53 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:50:21 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 16:16:28 Quartus_: Baden's OPG? 16:22:28 Operator Precedence Grammar. You can type let a=3+5-(9/6)+sin(2): 16:26:10 let 4*atan(1): f. -> 3.14159265358979 16:26:37 In debug mode: 16:26:47 let 4*atan(1): -> 4E 1E Fatan F* 16:26:54 So it's an infix translator. 16:27:32 neat, do you have a URL 16:27:59 oops 16:28:00 http://home.earthlink.net/~neilbawd/opg.txt 16:28:48 Neat stuff. 16:28:52 Quite a long file :) 16:30:24 about 20K. Verbose, lots of comments, etc. 16:30:36 it ships with Quartus Forth. 16:31:02 so you already have it :) 16:31:49 Oh, good stuff! 16:31:55 Shall check that out soon. 16:33:44 --- join: swalters (n=swalters@169.139.217.100) joined #retro 16:35:13 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #retro 16:57:10 --- nick: erider -> i 16:57:37 --- nick: i -> erider 17:18:09 --- join: Snoopy42_ (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-178-112.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 17:24:37 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 17:24:49 --- nick: Snoopy42_ -> Snoopy42 18:14:30 --- quit: swalters (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:00:33 --- quit: zpg (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:09:23 --- quit: nighty_ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 19:54:58 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/06.12.07