00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.11.23 00:10:34 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 00:29:15 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 05:00:50 happy turkey day! 08:27:45 --- join: crc (i=crc@AC87544F.ipt.aol.com) joined #retro 08:27:56 good morning 08:28:10 * crc will be here for about 30-45 minutes 08:33:13 happy turkey day! 08:33:29 --- join: lukeparrish (n=docl@74-36-211-202.dr01.hmdl.id.frontiernet.net) joined #retro 08:33:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o lukeparrish 08:33:49 hi lukeparrish and crc 08:34:02 good morning erider 08:34:40 cool, crc is back :) 08:34:56 crc, lukeparrish the power of forth come from being able to interact with address of Objects? 08:35:05 happy turkey day! 08:35:22 erider: yes that's one powerful aspect :) 08:35:35 happy thanksgiving to you too 08:35:56 lukeparrish: I will be on for short periods until I can get my DSL issues resolved 08:36:08 ah, ok 08:36:22 crc: thanks for the update on toka 08:36:41 erider: no problem 08:36:49 you had us worried for a while... what would happen to retro if you dropped dead? 08:37:04 hopefully someone would take over... 08:37:59 I would certainly volunteer. 08:38:07 crc: here is my issue with learning forth. I'm not should what I can use it for on day to day admin stuff ie. deleting files, move files etc.. 08:38:52 also what words should I focus my efforts 08:39:46 although I'm not nearly as competent of a coder :| 08:40:56 hmm, it could be technically used for those purposes. to make it easy will take some work though. 08:42:04 really an admin tool in forth is a seperate thing from the main forth 08:42:40 the easy answer is to use FFI to import relevant functions from existing libraries and just use those 08:42:45 ok lukeparrish then what would you say the main usage of forth is? 08:43:11 erider: it's a very general-purpose tool, whereas admining is more specific in nature 08:43:47 the main usage of forth is writing tight code for specific purposes 08:45:21 purpose? 08:45:38 the latest toka that I sent out has experimental FFI support. read doc/FFI for details on enabling it 08:45:44 nice 08:46:12 cool! 08:46:14 erider: I use it to write small tools, mostly for my own use 08:46:59 small tools such as? 08:47:01 I also have a habit of embedding it as an extension language into the occasional programs I write for others 08:47:40 crc what words should I focuses my efforts 08:47:46 I've written a small version control program, the irc client, a handful of linux tools 08:48:08 crc: you don't count you can wield many languages 08:48:26 in retro, learn the basic stack words, the classes, then the system interface (whether syscall or the ffi words from/import) 08:49:36 I guess ffi is probably best as it's cross-platform 08:49:42 erider: I tend to develop in whatever's easiest. I will often write a small library in C to wrap standard C functions in a cleaner manner, then use those functions in a forth program. 08:49:42 words like in> confuse the heck out me 08:49:56 normally you don't need to mess with them 08:51:00 I'm trying to learn these words such as parse and lparse 08:51:03 I only do when extending the internals, such as when I added prefixes 08:51:58 parse ( --
) 08:52:33 it parses until it finds that character or the end of the line, then returns the address/count of the resulting string 08:52:41 and when I see ( u_addr a -- ) what is u_addr? 08:52:46 parses the input stream 08:58:40 I'm not familiar with the u_addr aform 08:58:47 crc: ok and with toka sense your word list is small? What words are most important to do useful things and I will assume that the other words are syntactics sugar 08:58:48 *u_addr a form 08:59:18 toka is the basic building blocks for most other things 08:59:51 it probably still needs a couple of minor things, but has less than 50 words that are needed for most purposes 09:01:29 ok thanks 09:01:35 some of the ones provided are just useful for testing (e.g., "see", ".gc", ".words"), others are not needed in most code I've written with Toka so far ("keep", "gc") 09:02:17 crc: did you fix the stack issue 09:02:34 what stack issue? 09:02:38 you can go into negative stack 09:02:51 that has not been fixed yet 09:03:09 ok just asking :) 09:03:34 it will be soon; I have a branch with stack checks enabled in vm.c but I'm still working on it 09:04:36 :) 09:05:29 I really want to get excite with forth like you guys 09:10:56 crc what should one need to know about ones OS to be effective with forth 09:11:16 the programming interfaces + standard libraries 09:11:56 I recommend using an ffi equipped forth over a syscall one now, since it is much easier to learn, work with, and tends to apply to more systems 09:13:10 for me, becoming more familiar with the standard libc functionality has been a big help 09:21:02 * crc will try to return tonight 09:21:04 --- quit: crc () 10:51:47 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 10:55:13 --- join: Snoopy42_ (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-179-076.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 11:01:40 http://mureakuha.com/paste/?abab15d3488e33a063ebdd1cc358214e 11:01:43 useful! 11:03:21 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 11:03:29 --- nick: Snoopy42_ -> Snoopy42 11:23:56 useful? what does that show? 11:24:31 oh, word frequencies? for what is that useful? 11:33:30 for language design. 11:34:12 you notice how often do I type : and ; ? 11:34:20 :) 11:36:03 Cheery: you are not using rot that much 11:36:31 yep. 11:36:38 neither >r or r> 11:36:39 :) 11:37:12 actually, the words which I find most and which are in rxforth dictionary: 11:37:13 ; : @ ! dup variable + swap drop 11:42:21 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 11:43:21 Cheery: interesting 11:45:59 Today or tomorrow I could do my X86 assembler extension and... hmm. would I apply this info in building my assembler? 11:47:43 how are you moving address around Cheery with five words :) 12:06:23 --- quit: erider (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:07:08 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 13:48:50 check out the sources and you see. :) 13:53:23 I'm not actually doing it with only five words. 13:53:37 those things are most common in my system. 13:53:40 The reason: 13:53:58 They are practically simplest, most durable words forth has. 14:08:05 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 15:13:00 --- join: Snoopy42_ (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-179-076.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 15:17:52 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 15:17:59 --- nick: Snoopy42_ -> Snoopy42 15:39:35 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #retro 19:17:43 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 22:05:23 --- quit: nighty (Remote closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/06.11.23