00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.11.13
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06:05:48 <Ray_work> Good morning.
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09:49:01 <Ray_work> Hey rabbitwhite. How are you. I think my wife said you were on the other day?
09:49:21 <Ray_work> yikes swap them punctuations there.
09:49:34 <rabbitwhite> hey, yeah
09:49:59 <Ray_work> Are ya at work?
09:50:03 <rabbitwhite> can't remember why i signed on probably was just really bored
09:50:07 <rabbitwhite> yeah
09:50:07 <Ray_work> :)
09:50:10 <Ray_work> I know I am.
09:50:27 <Ray_work> Hey, i've been codeing Quartus forth on the Palm last couple weeks.
09:50:33 <Ray_work> Well, till the palm died. 
09:50:52 <Ray_work> But I got another one on the way from E-bay. $25.00 frieght incl.
09:51:06 <rabbitwhite> color?
09:51:12 <Ray_work> Not this one.
09:51:24 <Ray_work> It's a palm Vx, But I want color next. 
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09:51:44 <Ray_work> This time of year I have to watch my funds. I only make so much and the holidays are on the way.
09:51:45 <rabbitwhite> mm
09:52:04 <rabbitwhite> i too have to be watching the monsey mons
09:52:13 <Ray_work> And I have a bunch of new med costs now...
09:52:18 <Ray_work> ya. 
09:52:29 <Ray_work> You still gonna move schools?
09:52:39 <rabbitwhite> no
09:52:45 <rabbitwhite> i just found out i only have one sem left
09:52:47 <Ray_work> Change your mind?
09:52:51 <Ray_work> oOh cool.
09:53:00 <rabbitwhite> no, i mean, its not that i suddenly like it now
09:53:25 <Ray_work> Right. Doesn't make sence to pick up and move for 1 semester.
09:54:07 <rabbitwhite> yeah.  might still move after i graduate
09:54:18 <rabbitwhite> depends on the job i get
09:54:44 <Ray_work> Well, ya. You'll be a sought after systems/games programmer...
09:55:11 <rabbitwhite> i sent in my resume to Intellasys last week
09:55:26 <Ray_work> You need to come to Richardson and help John Carmac code the next personnal space vehical.
09:56:28 <Ray_work> ooh cool. Have you tried the simulator yet?
09:56:33 <Ray_work> I have not.
09:56:52 <Ray_work> But John ( last name here) seems to be getting somewhere with it.
09:57:24 <rabbitwhite> no but i'm really curious to see what i can simulate on it.  i have this idea with a friend to make a simple portable electronic instrument
09:57:50 <Ray_work> Musical? Medical?
09:57:59 <rabbitwhite> musical
09:58:06 <Ray_work> neat. 
09:58:16 * Ray_work is a musician from way-way back.
09:58:54 <rabbitwhite> yeah
09:59:13 <rabbitwhite> we are thinking about making it, and then maybe giving away the plans and selling pre-made ones
10:00:02 <rabbitwhite> it's a looonng term project though, we're not even certain yet on what it even does
10:00:24 <Ray_work> hehe, 
10:00:37 <Ray_work> need a mo.. /me taking drugs just now.
10:04:07 <Ray_work> I must be really sweat, cuz my sugar has been up all weekend.
10:05:13 <Ray_work> Can you say what it is then?
10:31:17 <rabbitwhite> its going to be some handheld thing that helps you make melodies
10:31:58 <Ray_work> neat.
10:38:35 <rabbitwhite> play sudoku?
10:39:34 <Ray_work> I have not. Infact, I just learned about it last week, when I mistakenly thought it was a magic square.
10:42:09 <rabbitwhite> you have to play it, it's a lot of fun once you get the hang of it
10:43:43 <rabbitwhite> i solved my first one last night after trying for 3 nights
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10:44:20 <rabbitwhite> and i thought it was tedious and impossible at first 
10:45:24 <Ray_work> I could tell it would be fun. I wll try it, thanks. :)
10:45:57 <Ray_work> Cant' be that difficult a proggy to create, you think?
10:46:34 <Ray_work> well, now that i think about it, maybe a little more rules based then I first envisioned.
10:47:50 <rabbitwhite> creating the puzzles seems like it would be hard
10:51:28 <Ray_work> Ya, now that I think about it, you have to leave the right kind of hints, which might mean working backwards from a finished puzzel.
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12:51:09 <rabbitwhite> later
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14:56:31 <erider> crc: ping
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15:10:44 <crc> hi erider
15:10:55 <crc> good evening everyone
15:11:04 <erider> hey I got your email thanks 
15:11:15 <crc> no problem
15:11:41 <crc> I am going to change it slightly, so that you have to specify the bootstrap manually, but it will still work with rlwrap
15:12:05 <crc> rlwrap ./toka bootstrap
15:12:45 <crc> (this is because I have alternate bootstraps for testing purposes; I don't want bugs in the default bootstrap to interfere)
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15:25:24 <erider> crc: ok 
15:25:51 <erider> crc: did you get the fisp running 
15:38:34 <crc> not yet
15:45:05 <erider> sorry :) 
15:45:21 <erider> timlarson: should be able to help you crc
15:46:36 <crc> I am attempting to compile the latest libggi again
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15:57:14 <erider> crc: are you having any luck 
15:57:46 <crc> I have the library compiled and installed but two functions are not in it:
15:57:53 <crc> ggAttach
15:57:55 <crc> ggNewStem
15:58:01 <crc> *giiAttach
15:58:16 <crc> ggiAttach
15:58:18 <crc> three :)
16:05:38 <erider> hmm 
16:05:38 <crc> and they aren't documented at all
16:05:53 <erider> thats interesting 
16:06:45 <Quartus> why does an experimental programming language implementation need a graphics library?
16:07:13 <crc> Quartus: I don't know
16:07:50 <Quartus> More's the pity it's not simply implemented as a Standard Forth program; it'd be easily understood, tested, played with, tested, extended.
16:08:30 <erider> its needs it for the graphic display 
16:08:55 <Quartus> what graphic display does it do?
16:09:30 <erider> its sort of represents the quad object 
16:09:54 <Quartus> And the only way it can do this is with a graphics library?
16:10:56 <erider> no that is not the only why but that is the why timlarson decided to implement it 
16:11:07 <Quartus> Limiting.
16:11:25 <erider> maybe 
16:11:58 <Quartus> Absolutely without question; crc's struggles to even get it to build are a simple and obvious proof.
16:12:57 <erider> very true I have been talking to timlarson about our need to rewrite the code to be at least more readable 
16:13:15 <Quartus> Try writing a programming language instead of a video game.
16:13:30 <erider> but he had some computer problems that have slowed that down 
16:13:54 <erider> well
16:14:24 <erider> it really doesn't need the graphic piece to work
16:14:47 <erider> I can sent crc precompiled version 
16:14:52 <erider> send* 
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16:16:06 <crc> erider: it'd have to be statically linked
16:16:34 <erider> crc: so you got it running 
16:16:40 <crc> no
16:16:51 <erider> oh
16:16:53 <Quartus> he's saying if you sent him a precompiled version, it would have to be statically linked.
16:16:53 <crc> if you can send a binary, make sure it's statically linked
16:17:20 <crc> since my ggi install lacks these functions...
16:17:40 * crc checked all prior releases listed on the ggi site; none document these functions
16:17:55 <erider> when you built the code it didn't make glow 
16:18:33 <crc> no
16:18:51 <erider> hmm 
16:18:54 <crc> it gives an error because it can't find those functions in any libraries I have
16:19:21 <erider> ah yeah I think you have to make some changes in the makefile 
16:20:04 <crc> the makefile is fine after I dropped timlarson's custom inclue+library paths
16:23:54 <erider> to be honest it was a pain to get it to run 
16:24:40 <Quartus> All this in the name of fiddling around with various ways of using parentheses?
16:25:06 <erider> I have been working on the code in chicken because I have gave up trying to read the code I will just make libraries and have tim add them later 
16:25:48 <erider> Quartus I'm not following what you are referring to
16:25:57 <erider> we are talking about fisp are you too? 
16:25:58 <Quartus> Fisp.  I looked at the wiki page.
16:26:12 <erider> ah ok 
16:26:25 <erider> sorry I wasn't following 
16:26:28 <Quartus> It appears to be alternate parenthetical syntax for nothing new, unless there's something I'm not seeing.
16:27:43 <erider> thats the syntax side but the data type we are trying to make is some different but mainly it looks more of a library or data base thingy 
16:30:50 <Quartus> Data structures can be built without new syntax, and especially without a graphics driver.
16:32:05 <erider> true but that doesn't stop the creation of new languages 
16:35:05 <crc> erider: thanks
16:35:23 <erider> I hope that one works 
16:35:57 <crc> I can start it up with ./glow -g
16:36:24 <erider> no 
16:36:40 <erider> the will start the graphic thingy 
16:37:49 <crc> not in the latest one you sent me
16:37:55 <erider> -f you can run the example from the commandline 
16:38:36 <erider> crc I can send you the ggi core 
16:39:07 <crc> the one you sent only recognizes -g, which causes it to run cli()
16:39:22 <crc> anything else gives "Error" and quits
16:40:34 <erider> hmm 
16:40:37 <erider> hold one 
16:47:09 <erider> crc: can you except file transfer 
16:47:48 <erider> I have the ggi-core that may help 
16:48:14 <crc> erider: I am stripping out the ggi stuff
16:48:29 <crc> it can now run the sample.fisp
16:49:03 <erider> they is an interactive mode 
16:49:30 <erider> there* 
16:51:36 <Raystm2> It happened today. I heard the first Christmas commercials. Fortunately, I was on Welbutrin at the time.
16:51:57 <crc> this code has some serious issues with buffer overruns
16:52:23 <erider> did I send keow_004 
16:52:53 <Raystm2> I knew there were reasons that I didn't try the keow yet. I don't think I'd be up to it.
16:54:44 <crc> erider: yes
16:56:51 <crc> erider: I just sent my non-ggi based keow. This fixes at least one buffer overrun; I can clean up the source further if you want
16:57:56 <erider> I asked my bother for the version I just sent to you 
17:05:05 <crc> with that one, -f works, but -g does not
17:05:26 <crc> interactive mode does not work either
17:07:47 <crc> it works ok with my non-ggi based one though
17:10:36 <erider> hmm I'm going to write tim 
17:10:55 <erider> I think we need to redone the code completely 
17:11:53 <crc> you can forward on my changes if you want
17:12:25 * crc would recommend holding off on the graphical stuff until the rest of the code is more complete
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17:16:57 <Quartus> I second the recommendation.
17:19:48 <erider> timlarson: ping 
17:21:31 <timlarson> hi...ggi from cvs head is needed...not sure the current state of ggi's cvs head...it was happy a few weeks ago, might still be.
17:21:51 <timlarson> but you can try out "./fisp" without ggi
17:21:55 <timlarson> just not "./glow"
17:22:48 <crc> I stripped glow down to a test only interface
17:23:01 <crc> it works with the sample
17:24:05 <timlarson> :)
17:25:51 <timlarson> I am more busy with family and research to clean up the code yet...I still understand it, and it cleans up bit by bit as I add parts to it.
17:26:03 <timlarson> s/more/too
17:26:21 <crc> I can understand that
17:28:26 <erider> I'm working on some clean up but there are some parts that I still don't understand :) 
17:28:35 <timlarson> my main research (at least that is directly related to this) is with how to structure, store, and query data in a quad-structured datastore.
17:30:01 <timlarson> I have purposefully not finished certain parts of fisp that I think quad will help with, to keep the psychological pressure active to get quad to do its tricks.
17:32:18 <erider> crc: I ran the indent -kr on the code and its more readable 
17:38:51 <crc> indent is handy
17:39:38 <erider> yes it is 
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22:24:50 <AI_coder> hi
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