00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.11.12 00:51:38 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 01:15:02 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 01:18:59 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 02:17:59 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 02:34:26 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 04:14:42 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:14:53 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 04:41:55 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 04:46:00 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 06:46:17 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 06:47:05 good morning 07:03:42 --- quit: erider (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:12:42 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 07:16:15 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #retro 10:40:34 --- join: snoopy_1611 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-154-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 10:44:46 --- join: Snoopy42_ (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-130-124.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 10:45:11 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 10:45:42 --- nick: Snoopy42_ -> Snoopy42 10:51:24 --- quit: snoopy_1611 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 12:01:59 good afternoon 12:05:24 hi crc 12:08:44 what's new? 12:09:39 hi Cheery and crc 12:09:52 hi erider 12:09:55 quiet day 12:10:26 yup 12:16:27 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-209-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #retro 12:19:17 crc, erlang rulz more than I thought. 12:20:20 I'm going to do something small with it, then I'm wondering whether I could improve it. :) 12:26:47 ui.. erlang that nice runtime system? 12:27:04 which erlang compiler did you use? 12:35:37 erl, which I got from apt-get 12:36:39 ah thanks, and I searched hours the wrong keyword 12:50:08 * crc sent out the latest Toka code 12:57:19 vatic's old palm died today. :( Just "won" a "new" one on ebay, $25.00 shipping and cradle and keyboard included. 13:06:07 the older palms are pretty cheap :) 13:09:52 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 13:25:09 --- quit: erider (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:31:34 going sleep 13:31:36 good night 13:31:50 --- part: forther left #retro 13:32:12 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 13:52:26 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 14:05:02 good afternoon 14:12:15 evening here :) 14:19:07 crc: are you currently working on anything? 14:20:54 I'm presently working on Toka and RxForth 14:21:20 and continuing to experiment with ways to cleanly bring RxForth's file words over to Retro 14:21:47 toka? 14:23:03 an experimental language I am playing with 14:23:04 rxforth is the implementation in C right 14:23:12 rxforth is C + assembly 14:23:16 toka is purely C 14:23:25 cool! 14:23:32 but its forth 14:23:38 toka? 14:23:50 toka is not a conventional forth 14:26:18 http://rx-core.org/~toka/ has some details 14:26:55 --- quit: Shain (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 14:26:55 --- quit: erider (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 14:27:03 --- quit: Snoopy42 (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 14:27:03 --- quit: nighty_ (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 14:27:03 --- quit: virl (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 14:27:03 --- quit: Quartus (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 14:27:19 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro 14:27:19 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-130-124.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 14:27:19 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #retro 14:27:19 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 14:27:19 --- join: Shain (i=steve@c-67-161-56-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #retro 14:27:19 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #retro 14:27:43 wow what happen 14:27:51 netsplit 14:28:00 oh dear.. 14:28:21 why didn't it happen to me 14:28:38 it may have from the perspective of the others 14:29:17 crc: can you talk a little about toka 14:29:26 what would you like to know? 14:29:58 is it a forth system or some else 14:30:02 it's a small language that I am using the experiment with writing stack based languages in C 14:31:00 it makes use of quotes (which factor heavily into RxForth), dynamically allocated memory, and garbage collection 14:31:26 so its forth like then 14:31:29 yes 14:31:36 cool! 14:31:46 forth like in that it has a dictionary, two stacks, and uses rpn 14:32:01 the core language is less than 50 words 14:32:15 and the syntax 14:32:18 http://rx-core.org/~toka/GLOSSARY 14:32:33 http://rx-core.org/~toka/LANGUAGE 14:33:18 interesting 14:33:30 syntax has some vague similarities to LISP, but it is not based on linked lists in the present implementation 14:34:02 there are no parenthesises lol 14:34:11 lots of [ ] pairs though 14:35:34 http://rx-core.org/~toka/bootstrap has some further examples of the syntax 14:39:44 the bootstrap takes about 17k (32-bit) or 36k (64-bit) of memory once compiled 14:42:37 cool! 14:43:40 what are you testing toka to do 14:44:31 mostly experimenting with ideas for implementing the internals 14:44:51 some things will be brought over to rxforth and eventually retro 14:45:49 it also gives me a nice little language that I can play with on more systems than Retro or RxForth will run on 14:46:18 so more or less it going to be an forth system 14:46:30 a forth-like system, yes 14:47:32 I have also done a few early experiments in a C to toka translator 14:48:30 the is side is the syntax? 14:48:50 is attaches a name to a quote 14:50:30 there are three forms of 'is', each creating a dictionary entry with a different class (this draws from my use of word classes in retro and rxforth) 14:52:04 that is interesting 14:56:12 crc: are you going to put the toka language on your site for usage? 14:56:38 it will be linked to soon 14:57:19 http://rx-core.org/toka.tar.gz is the lastest snapshot I uploaded 14:57:46 for what do want to use toka? 14:59:51 crc: will it run on 64bit system 15:00:01 yes 15:00:38 virl: it is primarily a research project for me, where I can quickly experiment with different ideas/implementations 15:00:40 I would just need to compile it? 15:00:44 erider: yes 15:01:15 does it have a turnkey feature? 15:01:18 it will probably spit out a lot of warning, but it does work fine on the amd64 box I have access to 15:01:19 no 15:01:51 turnkey is tricky when all memory is dynamically allocated 15:02:30 I have some ideas for a intermediate format that could be exported+loaded into memory by a small runtime, but haven't begun coding that yet 15:03:23 well I'm going to play with it a little if you don't mine 15:03:36 go right ahead 15:04:01 :) 15:05:06 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 15:09:16 crc: interesting its seems like a language of defining abstractions 15:15:53 crc: [ ." inside a def" 1 2 + . ." still inside" ] is foo 15:15:53 ." was not found! 15:15:53 inside was not found! 15:15:53 a was not found! 15:15:53 def" was not found! 15:15:53 ." was not found! 15:15:55 still was not found! 15:15:57 inside" was not found! 15:16:19 [ s" inside a def" type 1 2 + . s" still inside" type ] is foo 15:16:29 I have not defined ." at this time 15:17:22 [ s" inside a def" type 1 2 + . s" still inside" type ] is foo 15:17:22 s" was not found! 15:17:22 inside was not found! 15:17:22 a was not found! 15:17:24 def" was not found! 15:17:26 s" was not found! 15:17:28 still was not found! 15:17:30 inside" was not found! 15:17:47 when starting, did you do: 15:17:48 ./toka 15:17:50 or: 15:17:54 cat bootstrap - | ./toka 15:18:14 (toka does not automatically load the bootstrap module yet) 15:18:40 ah ok 15:18:53 * crc needs to fix that sometime 15:18:54 cat bootstrap - | ./toka 15:18:54 Welcome to Toka 15:18:54 Type .words for a list of defined words. Memory 15:18:54 use can be checked with .gc, and memory can be 15:18:54 reclaimed with gc 15:19:13 that is the standard startup message 15:19:29 gc is invoke automatically when one of the allocation lists is filled 15:22:46 something is wrong crc 15:23:56 what? 15:24:35 its not taking input but I'm going to restart it 15:24:50 I tried it with rlwrap 15:25:05 cat bootstrap - | rlwrap ./toka 15:25:16 so maybe that is causing so problems 15:25:26 hmm, that doesn't work :( 15:25:28 * crc thinsk 15:26:17 rlwrap: error: stdin is not a tty: Invalid argument 15:27:13 cool! 15:28:05 crc: so is = : 15:28:15 essentially 15:28:34 is-data is similar to create 15:28:49 is-macro is similar to macro: in rxforth/retroforth 15:29:04 (define a word that can only be used inside definitions) 15:30:39 crc: so "is" is the way to make combinations of primitives 15:31:09 primitives+other words, yes 15:31:16 [ ... ] is foo 15:31:18 : foo ... ; 15:33:45 I like the [ ... ] is foo style 15:34:18 [ ... ] 15:34:24 this is called a "quote' 15:34:38 [ ... [ ... ] .... ] 15:34:58 quotes can contain other quotes (up to 8 levels of nesting) 15:35:04 cool! I just tried [ foo ] is bar 15:37:05 crc: whats the advantage of having the nesting? 15:37:14 it is needed for loops: 15:37:27 [ 1 10 [ dup . 1 + ] iterate drop ] is foo 15:37:27 foo 15:37:35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 15:37:59 also conditionals: 15:38:20 [ = [ s" true!" type ] [ s" false" type ] t/f cr ; is =? 15:38:23 1 2 =? 15:38:25 2 2 =? 15:38:47 [ = [ s" true" type ] true? cr ] is =? 15:39:11 [ = [ s" false" type ] false? cr ] is =? 15:39:34 t/f is defined in toka's core language, true? and false? are defined in the bootstrap 15:40:14 cool! 15:41:05 [ 1 10 [ dup . 1 + ] iterate drop ] is foo this needs to be nested to work? 15:42:27 1 10 [ dup . 1 + ] iterate drop 15:42:34 to use it in a definition, yes 15:42:45 you can use the conditionals/iterate outside a definition 15:42:55 why is it called Quotes? 15:43:07 lack of a better name :) 15:43:34 :) 15:43:46 well its neat 15:43:57 thanks 15:44:09 * crc will work on a way to get rlwrap to work with this 15:45:07 man readline 15:45:12 wrong windoe 15:45:14 *window 15:45:39 :) 15:45:45 ok great! 16:05:02 crc: you have some of the most readable C code I have seen in a while 16:10:17 thanks 16:10:30 this is my first all-C project in several years 16:11:21 very readable 16:13:44 are the comments clear enough? 16:14:36 yes they are clear 16:15:00 very clear 16:15:04 good :) 16:16:30 have you seen the fisp code? 16:17:51 no 16:19:00 very hard to follow 16:21:56 I will have to get a copy of fisp sometime 16:22:31 I've tried to keep things clean so that they can be replaced easily 16:23:58 if you give me your email I will email you the source 16:24:09 charles.childers@gmail.com or crc@retroforth.org 16:26:54 sent 16:30:10 crc: did you get it 16:31:35 yes 16:31:57 I need to install libggi and sqlite3 to build it? 16:32:31 yes 16:33:34 but there is three binaries glow, fisp, and quad 16:33:50 but glow it the file to use 16:34:11 is* 16:36:23 it is in serious need of at least some reformatting for readability 16:36:44 yes I know 16:37:06 its very hard to read and follow 16:38:00 I have to have timlarson explain several parts of the code to me 16:39:29 crc: I have wrote code but its it very to hard to find where the code is going to live 16:42:40 I can understand that 16:42:59 the code needs commenting at the least 16:43:10 * crc is building libggi so he can try to run it 16:48:00 crc: its hard for me to read and there are a lot of things going on at the same time 16:48:48 --- quit: nighty_ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 16:52:48 libggi won't build :( 16:53:21 really 16:53:29 whats the problem 16:53:43 I apt-get libggi 16:54:05 I am running SuSE 10.1 16:55:37 its won't build crc 16:57:19 crc: the source code I sent you didn't come with sqlite-3.3.7.so 16:59:00 sqlite3 built without problems 16:59:29 I found RPM's for libggi, but still get these errors: 16:59:46 whats the errors 16:59:59 In function `init_graphics': 17:00:00 glow.c:(.text+0x826): undefined reference to `ggNewStem' 17:00:00 glow.c:(.text+0x846): undefined reference to `giiAttach' 17:00:00 glow.c:(.text+0x861): undefined reference to `ggiAttach' 17:00:00 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status 17:00:40 ah you need libggi 17:00:44 I have that 17:01:11 crc@strider:~/Desktop/keow> ls /usr/local/lib/ 17:01:11 ggi libggi.so libgg.so libgii.la libsqlite3.a libsqlite3.so.0.8.6 tcc 17:01:11 libgg.a libggi.so.2 libgg.so.1 libgii.so libsqlite3.la libtcc.a 17:01:11 libggi.a libggi.so.2.0.2 libgg.so.1.0.0 libgii.so.1 libsqlite3.so pkgconfig 17:01:11 libggi.la libgg.la libgii.a 17:01:15 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-209-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #retro 17:02:03 you need libggi2 17:02:54 libsqlite3.so.0 => /usr/local/lib/libsqlite3.so.0 (0x00002aaaaabc2000) 17:02:55 libgg.so.1 => /usr/local/lib/libgg.so.1 (0x00002aaaaad22000) 17:02:55 libgii.so.1 => /usr/local/lib/libgii.so.1 (0x00002aaaaae2f000) 17:02:55 libggi.so.2 => /usr/local/lib/libggi.so.2 (0x00002aaaaaf5a000) 17:02:55 libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 (0x00002aaaab125000) 17:02:57 libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x00002aaaab2a0000) 17:02:59 libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x00002aaaab4d9000) 17:03:02 libpthread.so.0 => /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x00002aaaab5dc000) 17:03:03 libaa.so.1 => /usr/lib/libaa.so.1 (0x00002aaaab6f1000) 17:03:05 libslang.so.2 => /lib/libslang.so.2 (0x00002aaaab810000) 17:03:07 libX11.so.6 => /usr/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x00002aaaaba23000) 17:03:09 libncurses.so.5 => /lib/libncurses.so.5 (0x00002aaaabc2b000) 17:03:12 libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x00002aaaabd87000) 17:03:13 libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x00002aaaabf0d000) 17:03:15 libXext.so.6 => /usr/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x00002aaaac023000) 17:03:18 /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00002aaaaaaab000) 17:03:20 libgpm.so.1 => /usr/lib/libgpm.so.1 (0x00002aaaac134000) 17:03:22 libXau.so.6 => /usr/lib/libXau.so.6 (0x00002aaaac23b000) 17:06:53 I do have libggi 2.1.2 installed 17:07:01 ggNewStem is not in it 17:08:07 can you get the newest version 17:18:14 crc: are you still seeing the same problems 17:26:24 I am trying to compile the newest version 17:32:02 make[3]: Entering directory `/home/crc/Desktop/ggi-2.2.1-bundle/libggi-2.2.1/programs/check' 17:32:02 if gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../.. -I../../include -I/usr/local/include -g -O2 -I/usr/local/include -pedantic -D_REENTRANT -D_THREAD_SAFE -DDEBUG -g -std=gnu99 -Wall -Wpointer-arith -Wsign-compare -Wstrict-prototypes -Wswitch -Wmissing-prototypes -Wreturn-type -Wshadow -Wnested-externs -Wredundant-decls -Wuninitialized -Wcast-qual -Wwrite-strings -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -MT speed.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/speed.Tpo" -c -o speed.o speed.c 17:32:02 speed.c: In function ‘time_offset’: 17:32:03 speed.c:63: error: ‘CLK_TCK’ undeclared (first use in this function) 17:32:05 speed.c:63: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once 17:32:07 speed.c:63: error: for each function it appears in.) 17:32:09 speed.c: In function ‘time_stop’: 17:32:11 speed.c:76: error: ‘CLK_TCK’ undeclared (first use in this function) 17:32:13 make[3]: *** [speed.o] Error 1 17:32:17 * crc will look into this more tomorrow 17:38:26 indent -kr glow.c 17:38:38 for me, this makes it easier to read 17:47:23 crc: whats does indent do? 17:55:37 never mind 18:01:57 indent reformats C/C++ programs 18:02:31 I see that now I read the manpages :) 20:39:22 --- quit: lukeparrish ("Lost terminal") 23:54:23 --- quit: forther ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/06.11.12