00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.11.09
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08:24:22 <Ray_work> Hello, everybody!
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11:06:16 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +oo crc lukeparrish
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11:58:48 <Ray_work> dang it. I missed that waascowe  wabbitwhite ag'in.
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14:35:53 <erider> hi all
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14:52:55 <crc> good evening
14:56:17 <Ray_work> hi crc. Good evening to you as well. How's Tammy doing?
14:58:26 <crc> she's healing. has a doctor visit tomorrow to check the progress
15:00:06 <Ray_work> ok thanks
15:01:39 <Cheery> Hi crc.
15:02:10 <crc> hi Cheery
15:02:17 * crc sees that you are on late again
15:02:26 <Cheery> After I changed to svorak layout from devorak, I think I should make some lessons for myself on re-mapping my finger impulses to the new location of symbols.
15:02:52 * Cheery is doing a long day again, with his hobbies.
15:03:05 <Cheery> This is the calmest time of the day anyway.
15:03:48 <Ray_work> Cheery: svorak?
15:04:19 <Ray_work> time to go, read you from home. :)
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15:04:55 <Cheery> I'm so relaxed that I don't know whether I'm sleeping. :)
15:06:20 <Cheery> I write code in rxforth, it is like a fresh air or pattern of life emerging in it.
15:06:31 <Cheery> It is beautiful.
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15:13:57 <Quartus> Uh oh, I think he's gonna start to sing. :)
15:15:00 <Cheery> Quartus, I don't need to, my code signs for me already.
15:15:21 <Quartus> o/~ The Hills are Alive, with the Sound of Retro... o/~
15:44:45 <lukeparrish> o/~ And my heart will be blessed with the sound of Rx o/~
15:47:10 <erider> hi lukeparrish
15:47:26 <lukeparrish> hi erider 
15:56:24 <erider> how are things going lukeparrish
15:56:36 <lukeparrish> pretty good 
15:56:43 <lukeparrish> how are you doing?
16:00:30 <erider> I'm doing fine just working with forth, its going to be a slow process 
16:00:55 <lukeparrish> making any progress?
16:01:38 <erider> I have learned some words but I still can't program something useful 
16:01:55 <lukeparrish> hmm. what would you like to make?
16:02:30 <erider> I don't know :) 
16:02:51 <lukeparrish> :)
16:03:07 <lukeparrish> are you using retro?
16:03:52 <erider> no well kind of I'm back and forth lol with gforth and retro 
16:04:03 <lukeparrish> one thought is try and make something that adds a gforth feature to retro
16:04:14 <erider> but the books I'm reading don't cover retro 
16:04:30 <lukeparrish> well, it's smaller so there's not much extra to learn
16:05:08 <erider> I'm just trying to get used to the stack fiddling 
16:05:32 <lukeparrish> cool
16:05:40 <lukeparrish> any luck with that?
16:05:40 <erider> it seems that a lot of stack fiddling to handle parameters is needed 
16:05:54 <lukeparrish> usually it's not as much as you'd think
16:06:01 <erider> reading it is hard 
16:06:02 <lukeparrish> a swap here, a rot there
16:06:22 <erider> but when I add .s all over its a little easier 
16:06:24 <lukeparrish> with good forth code there's rarely more than three elements on the stack at a time
16:06:29 <lukeparrish> true
16:06:38 <lukeparrish> that helps me a lot
16:07:11 <lukeparrish> sometimes there's 4 stack elements if you are using strings, as they are 2 elements apiece.
16:07:11 <erider> I just need to see whats happening 
16:07:19 <lukeparrish> yeah
16:07:33 <erider> I'm working on strings now 
16:07:43 <lukeparrish> cool
16:07:51 <erider> I have been using scopy and place 
16:08:10 <erider> I have been slicing and appending strings 
16:08:15 <lukeparrish> hmm. in retro I use move
16:08:19 <lukeparrish> neato
16:08:26 <erider> now I'm moving to refill and drop 
16:08:48 <erider> I'm using cmove 
16:08:52 <lukeparrish> yeah if you split a string, that makes 2 of them, which is 4 numbers total
16:09:16 <lukeparrish> probably fairly similar
16:09:28 <lukeparrish> c stands for character?
16:09:37 <erider> yup 
16:09:46 <lukeparrish> since a character is 1 byte in ascii, it's the same thing as move
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16:10:03 <erider> but I learnt the difference between [char] and char 
16:10:08 <lukeparrish> cool
16:10:27 <erider> yeah 
16:11:26 <erider> there are some things that should be up to a programmer I feel 
16:12:40 <erider> rearranging the parameter order is a little detailed for a programmer, I think we can focus on something else 
16:12:55 <lukeparrish> hmm
16:13:23 <lukeparrish> well you want to write words in a way that requires as little rearranging as possible.
16:13:52 <lukeparrish> one thing you can do is store things to variables and get them from the variables when you need them
16:14:11 <lukeparrish> this is typically better when there is more than just two or three things to work with
16:14:51 <erider> I have learned something about local variable with { a b -- 1 2 } 
16:15:08 <lukeparrish> cool
16:15:32 <lukeparrish> hmm
16:15:49 <lukeparrish> locals are defined inside of a word, right?
16:16:05 <crc> lukeparrish: yes
16:16:16 <lukeparrish> hi crc
16:16:19 <crc> hi lukeparrish
16:16:27 <lukeparrish> how's it going?
16:16:32 <crc> pretty good overall
16:16:49 <lukeparrish> glad to hear your wife is doing better
16:17:13 <erider> hi crc
16:17:21 <crc> hi erider
16:17:32 <erider> lukeparrish: do you know what bl is? 
16:17:46 <lukeparrish> hmm. sounds familiar but not sure
16:18:16 <crc> bl = constant for whitespace (ascii 32)
16:18:28 <erider> its a consant
16:18:40 <lukeparrish> cool
16:18:49 <lukeparrish> now I remember :)
16:19:15 <erider> cool 
16:19:32 <erider> lukeparrish: do you uses refill 
16:19:43 <crc> retro does not have refill
16:19:48 <lukeparrish> I haven't so far
16:20:09 <erider> hmm ok 
16:20:38 <lukeparrish> retro has fill, which can be used to blank out places
16:21:40 <erider> what about accept
16:22:07 <lukeparrish> I don't think it has that
16:22:24 <lukeparrish> it has key, which gets a character from the keyboard and processes it
16:22:53 <lukeparrish> you can put key in a loop and thus get a line from the keyboard
16:23:17 <erider> true 
16:23:21 <erider> I guess 
16:24:09 <lukeparrish> : getline repeat key dup 32 =if ;then again ; <-- that puts the whole line on the stack
16:24:39 <lukeparrish> er wait, that would be 10 not 32. 32 would just get one word.
16:26:01 <lukeparrish> hmm. something wrong with that I guess
16:26:42 <erider> I don't know 
16:27:34 <lukeparrish> : getline repeat key dup 10 =if ;then again ;
16:27:39 <lukeparrish> works
16:28:52 <erider> so whats it suppose to do for us
16:29:00 <lukeparrish> guess
16:30:23 <erider> its going to get 10 characters for the keyboard 
16:31:47 <erider> lukeparrish: that is not ans-forth compliant right?
16:31:50 <crc> no
16:32:09 <crc> : getline begin key dup 10 = if exit then again ;
16:32:28 <crc> I think that's the equivalent in ANS
16:32:33 <lukeparrish> here's a more complete version (retro only, although I could port it):
16:32:36 <lukeparrish> : getline 0 repeat key dup 10 =if drop pad swap ;then over pad + ! 1+ again ;
16:32:54 <crc> lukeparrish: I see a bug. Use c! instead of !
16:32:57 <lukeparrish> whups that should be c! (although it works)
16:33:35 <lukeparrish> : getline 0 repeat key dup 10 =if drop pad swap ;then over pad + c! 1+ again ;
16:34:05 <lukeparrish> :)
16:34:09 <erider> lukeparrish: and that puts the input on the stack right or the address to the string 
16:34:47 <lukeparrish> this version puts it in a string (at the pad's address)
16:35:00 <lukeparrish> the earlier version just got the keys onto the stack
16:35:05 <erider> the temp address 
16:35:08 <erider> :) 
16:35:08 <lukeparrish> right
16:35:18 <erider> I learnt about that too 
16:35:23 <lukeparrish> cool :)
16:35:29 <erider> the scratch pad 
16:38:12 <lukeparrish> I believe parse does something similar, but uses tib instead of pad
16:38:40 <erider> there are similar 
16:38:42 <lukeparrish> or rather lnparse does, which is the same as 10 parse
16:38:52 <erider> they* 
16:38:59 <lukeparrish> yeah
16:40:44 <erider> I haven't figure out something to factor yet but I would like to be able to read the code that I come across 
16:41:04 <lukeparrish> that's a good goal
16:41:18 <lukeparrish> can you read retroforth's sources yet?
16:42:04 <erider> are you talking about the fasm code
16:42:06 * lukeparrish has to take a shower, still covered in bee dirt
16:42:13 <lukeparrish> just the forth part :)
16:42:26 <erider> I haven't seen it 
16:42:26 <nanstm> I read the Rx sources just last weekend or so. 
16:42:27 <lukeparrish> although the fasm code can be informative once you figure it out
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16:42:32 <lukeparrish> cool
16:42:38 <lukeparrish> hi Raystm2 
16:42:41 <Raystm2> Hi 
16:43:01 <Raystm2> I mean to say that I followed the way it builds and understood it for the first time this week.
16:43:13 <Raystm2> Very neat. 
16:43:19 <Raystm2> Makes much sence. 
16:43:28 <Raystm2> I didn't know what grep and sed did till then.
16:43:37 <lukeparrish> cool
16:43:59 * lukeparrish will be back within an hour most likely
16:44:04 <erider> Raystm2: what do you mean grep and sed 
16:44:14 <Raystm2> I like how they pre-build the dictionary for each build.
16:44:20 <Raystm2> Hi erider.
16:44:31 <Raystm2> Grep and sed are unix facillities.
16:44:57 <Raystm2> Grep I believe is like, Get Regular Expression and Print. 
16:45:21 <Raystm2> sed seems to me to be some sort of String EDitor or some such.
16:45:35 <erider> I know but what do they have to do with retro source code 
16:45:38 <crc> sed is a *stream* editor
16:45:46 <Raystm2> thanks crc. :)
16:45:54 <crc> erider: they are used to build the initial dictionary for each port 
16:46:07 <Raystm2> It's clever.
16:46:11 <Raystm2> Well done crc!
16:46:42 <Raystm2> I like how modularized you've made this over the last year or two.
16:46:46 <erider> interesting crc why did you decided to use grep and sed for that 
16:47:51 <erider> Raystm2: was the source a easy read
16:47:51 <Raystm2> I'm gonna jump in and say... crc has 7 or 30 ports all using similar dictionaries with some ports needing differences before the build.
16:48:26 <erider> Raystm2: are you talking about the makefile? 
16:48:29 <Raystm2> This grep and sed stuff builds those different dictionaries and makes them available to the proper port.
16:48:32 <Raystm2> Yes.
16:48:54 <erider> ah ok 
16:48:56 <crc> erider: I make extensive use of small shell scripts, I just reused some bits I had done previously
16:48:56 <erider> I see 
16:49:48 <erider> I thought he was talking about something internal to the source code 
16:50:26 <crc> no, just to keep the dictionary include for each in sync with the code
16:50:33 <Raystm2> erider, It takes a while to follow the entire code build line by line, and it might be necessary to understand some more detail of Rx and RetroForth, but you can understand it, I'm sure.
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17:18:29 <erider> ok Raystm2
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