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08:59:06 <lukeparrish> hmm. I think I'd prefer to close the comment with something other than what it was opened with.
08:59:10 <lukeparrish> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=219
09:28:04 <lukeparrish> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=221
13:57:58 <crc> good afternoon
14:11:30 <Cheery> hi
14:11:47 <Quartus_> hi cheery
14:19:12 <erider> hi Q, crc
14:22:07 <Quartus_> hi erider
14:24:20 <Raystm2> hi
14:24:44 <Quartus> Hey Ray
14:25:12 <Raystm2> The self organizing priciple. Now, let us create a program for the masses. What shall we?
14:25:26 <Quartus> What have the masses done for me lately?
14:25:36 <Raystm2> hmm, ...
14:25:41 <Raystm2> or umm really.
14:28:29 <Raystm2> The masses has developed a complicated system of delivering every possible modern convenience and conveyance.
14:28:52 <Quartus> I first thought you said 'inconvenience and annoyance'.
14:29:01 <Raystm2> Same thing, really.
14:32:01 <Raystm2> Same thing, because: For every action there is an equal and opposite depression, physically and mentally.
14:32:23 <Quartus> I want the masses to hold up their end for a change. :)
14:32:33 <Raystm2> How high?
14:32:39 <Quartus> I've just written a BNF lexical parser for Forth.  Nobody in #forth seems interested.
14:33:02 <Quartus> sorry.  It's a parser, but it's a lexical analyzer.
14:33:05 <Raystm2> I'm interested. I just saw one the other day. 
14:33:19 <Quartus> You did?  Oh, you mean a BNF implementation?
14:33:22 <Raystm2> I love the BNF thingy.
14:33:24 <Raystm2> ya.
14:33:31 <Raystm2> ummm /me looks
14:34:08 <Raystm2> http://www.zetetics.com/bj/papers/bnfparse.htm
14:34:16 <Quartus> Mine is built on a BNF implementation -- it analyzes Forth input lexically.  It embodies the rules for singles, doubles, floats, and names.  It has a strict mode that has the minimum required rule set, and a slightly more relaxed one that's more commonly encountered.
14:34:39 <Quartus> Yes, I built a Standard BNF module from the ideas in that one in your link.
14:34:45 <Raystm2> Excellent. Well done. Sounds like a fun thing to compile.
14:35:16 <Raystm2> Must make for a great prototyping language.
14:35:38 <Raystm2> or is that meta-language.
14:35:50 <Quartus> It's an example of how little languages work so well in Forth --  bnf: <float>  <sign?> <significand> <E> <exponent> ;bnf     for instance.
14:36:13 <Raystm2> neat.
14:36:16 <Quartus> And also a useful tool, as I'm documenting caveats for formatting numbers when writing portable code.
14:37:15 <Cheery> hmm.
14:37:24 <Cheery> what kind of syntax things can you do with BNF?
14:37:34 <Raystm2> I appreciate a language that allows you to follow the tokens to the very atoms of the mechanics of the thing it describes.
14:37:59 <Quartus> For instance strict minimal Standard compliance means double-cell numbers have a dot at the end, but not in the middle.  Strict Standard floats begin with a digit, not with '.'.  Etc.
14:39:31 <Cheery> hmm. I don't know whether I should hate or love it.
14:39:44 <Quartus> Cheery, BNF defines a grammar for parsing, a set of rules; when input matches the rules, you can generate appropriate code.  It's one stage of a typical compiler.
14:40:18 <Cheery> I know a bit about it.
14:40:21 <Quartus> Forth systems do lexical analysis in the interpreter loop, but it's not formalized.  BNF is a formalized system for specifying the rules.
14:40:53 <Cheery> why should it be formalized?
14:41:55 <Cheery> But can't you do those horrible things like mathematical notation with BNF?
14:42:08 <Quartus> It is, in fact, formalized in the Standard.  It isn't in a formalized form inside a given Forth, but instead is embedded in the logic of the interpreter loop, along with words such as skip, scan, parse, >number, >float, etc.
14:42:56 <Raystm2> Neat for special data handlers.
14:43:20 <Raystm2> I can see cool databases written in a BNF-Forth.
14:43:42 <Quartus> Right. I'm not arguing against the implementation.  I'm not, in fact, arguing.  This parser lets me explore the ramifications of extending or relaxing the parsing rules.
14:44:00 <Cheery> oh well. Maybe I'm just having cold creeps when C is mentioned.
14:44:06 <Quartus> I didn't mention C.
14:44:07 <Cheery> :)
14:44:15 <Raystm2> and it could be on the fly, as the newer types are built ontop of running types...
14:44:16 <Cheery> in the paper C was mentioned
14:45:07 <Quartus> That's true, Raystm2, though I can't quite envision how it would fit into a database system -- but you could build some interesting language translators with it.
14:47:00 <crc> Cheery: I use C for some things... :)
14:48:48 <Cheery> It's ok for some things, still it is causing cold waves on my neck.
14:49:55 <crc> I greatly prefer forth
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14:51:23 <Cheery> if I see no [1 + 2] -syntax sugar done for forth, I'm feeling quite safe myself and consider BNF being a good thing.. :)
14:51:43 <Cheery> If I see... well. I dont.
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14:55:02 <Cheery> btw. crc, I'm doing a subleq virtual machine (von neuman architecture and 8 bit I/O, only one instruction in set) for rx.
14:55:09 <Cheery> I'm showing it when I'm done. :)
14:57:39 <Cheery> the IP is only 6 bits really, and there is one 'immediate' -field in the machine.
15:00:22 <Cheery> maybe I'm using the remaining 2 bits for something intresting which actually uses the 'immediate' -field in the instruction.
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19:30:19 <lukeparrish> bnf: ... ;bnf -- neat
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