00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.09.11
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06:17:54 <Ray_work> Good morning.
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12:06:29 <Ray_work> Roger Dodger. What's up?
12:06:34 <Ray_work> how ya been.
12:06:41 <Ray_work> Did you know...?
12:07:22 <Ray_work> That /me is working on a sorta handbook for Glypher beta 2f
12:12:45 <rabbitwhite> hey
12:12:54 <rabbitwhite> good god why
12:17:30 <rabbitwhite> how far along is it
12:26:44 <Ray_work> Not very, about to work out the word list. here's a link to it so far. http://retroforth.org/glypher/handbook.html it links from retroforth site glypher page.
12:27:09 <Ray_work> Why? because it's a neat forth. unique even. 
12:28:04 <Ray_work> I just recently realized that you were reading in a file and compressing with the exe file.
12:28:12 <virl> yeah yeah yeah.. glypher gets a handbook... yeah yeah yeah
12:28:41 <virl> now.. there needs to be a linux port and I'm happy..
12:29:51 <rabbitwhite> heh.  this is actually kind of entertaining.  you should keep working on it.
12:30:37 <Ray_work> hehe virl. I'd like to port this to the retroforth ontop of Rx-core, then porting won't be a problem. of course, This Glypher relies heavily on windows and allegro.dll
12:31:29 <virl> wah.. relying on shit 
12:32:11 <rabbitwhite> thanks, that gives me some motivation to give the PC platform another go.
12:32:16 <Ray_work> I wish it could rely on shit. I can produce it in tons/annum.
12:32:22 <Ray_work> hehe :)
12:33:14 <Ray_work> rabbitwhite: how is Game-Cube looking?
12:33:18 <rabbitwhite> this gives me an idea - look at the allegro source and derive algorithms from its graphics routines ..
12:33:25 <Ray_work> yes...
12:33:54 <rabbitwhite> base language is set, very streamlined, can't get part of the SD driver to work ..
12:34:26 <rabbitwhite> i'm working on the 'game library' part of the system
12:34:38 <rabbitwhite> something allegro the self-proclaimed game library du jour lacked
12:34:44 <virl> windows .. I can't believe that really anyone developes on this platform something
12:36:25 <rabbitwhite> anyway enriching the fun parts of the system like graphics and sound with interesting routines that interact with eachother is the key to this one's success over glypher
12:36:41 <rabbitwhite> you couldn't do anything fun with allegro
12:44:01 <rabbitwhite> anyway in GC forth i have a disgustingly simple mechanism for running scripts
12:44:28 <rabbitwhite> on top of mark/empty i can compile a dynamic game engine which can be hacked off with 'unmark'
12:44:52 <rabbitwhite> and then on top of that use mark/empty to load blocks containing runtime code to implement discrete scenes
12:45:09 <rabbitwhite> so in this system each stage can be a special case..
12:45:37 <rabbitwhite> a 'director' task handles testing conditions for loading scripts
12:46:08 <rabbitwhite> you can even automate that so that a stage is loaded based on preset rules applied to a data structure - such as a simple list of block numbers
12:46:41 <rabbitwhite> in effect, the unit of control really is the block on this system ... i'm really excited about this idea
12:46:59 <rabbitwhite> it's like OOP but a hundred times simpler and better
12:48:40 <rabbitwhite> you can compile code between frames at runtime
12:49:25 <rabbitwhite> early-bound and late-bound don't mean alot in this system
12:49:34 <rabbitwhite> because of this capability
12:50:59 <rabbitwhite> and most importantly, you keep alot of freedom with choice of words because it allows you to keep the context comfortably narrow
12:52:09 <Cheery> what is keeping?
12:52:18 <Cheery> I'm reading the logs just now. :)
12:53:14 <virl> OOP is fine complicated 
12:55:05 <Cheery> yep, but if somebody says better than OOP, it must be that he knows what programming is...
12:55:38 <Cheery> or rather, what it isn't >:)
12:56:00 <Cheery> OOP is utterly overcomplicated.
12:58:00 <rabbitwhite> right, and right now i'm interested in the idea of having the ability to freely write 'stupid' code
12:58:40 <virl> perhaps aspect oriented programming? ;-))
12:58:58 <rabbitwhite> interesting term, did you just coin that?
13:00:07 <virl> no.. that's a real _NEW_ programming direction..
13:00:17 <rabbitwhite> it sounds cool
13:00:22 <virl> it's exactly OOP++
13:00:25 <rabbitwhite> oh
13:00:56 <virl> one of it's implementation is implemented ontop of java...
13:02:07 <virl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AspectJ
13:03:53 <rabbitwhite> this is hilariously unreadable
13:05:17 <rabbitwhite> "In them the developer can write a pointcut to match, for example, all field-set operations on specific fields, and code to run when the field is actually set. "
13:05:18 <virl> ah.. modern way of programming ... smell this wonderful odour
13:05:49 <virl> (sarcasm)
13:08:35 <rabbitwhite> reading this stuff reminds me that i have to think about programming as little as possible or else i'd turn into one of these guys
13:11:55 <Ray_work> hahaha
13:12:28 <Cheery> rabbitwhite: don't be a mock.
13:12:29 <Cheery> :P
13:13:04 <Cheery> You really must know further about programming than those guys who introduce weird things rising with java school degree.
13:13:27 <Cheery> Only that way you can beat and use their heads as bongo drums.
13:14:06 <Cheery> And what you need is a bit of philosophy with a knowledge from everything.
13:14:15 <Cheery> and good guts.
13:14:58 <virl> hmm.. heads as bongo drums, oh I'd like to have bill gates head as my bongo drum
13:15:19 <rabbitwhite> i'd like him to just play the bongos for me in my office 
13:15:27 <Cheery> He's evil bovine master, it'd be a trick.
13:15:49 <Cheery> :P
13:16:22 <virl> killing him in unlimited ways would be funny
13:16:39 <Cheery> Aspect oriented and java object oriented programmers are still stuck into a whisky ocean of linear representations.
13:17:01 <Cheery> virl: play duke nukem and you'll find him.
13:17:11 <virl> huhu..
13:17:11 <Cheery> or wait, was it DOOM?
13:17:47 <Cheery> virl: yep.
13:19:08 <Cheery> linear representation is good for linear things. When you start defining a program in a linear text, you are doomed to have hard syntax rules and big bunch of clouds to hide the true program.
13:19:42 <Cheery> If you get out from linear representation, you'll jump into a new concept of programming.
13:20:02 <virl> linear representation?
13:20:03 <Cheery> that's really next step technology in AI. :)
13:20:12 <virl> what do you define as that one?
13:20:31 <Cheery> virl: data represented as a sequences.
13:20:47 <Cheery> even worse, C make difference between data and code. :)
13:20:47 <virl> hmm? wasn't it so that AI represents data in not a linear way?
13:21:25 <virl> for example a expert system doesn't represent data as a stream
13:21:40 <Cheery> yes, but if AI itself would be written in a language which is not containing linear representation, what would you get? :P
13:22:26 <Cheery> oh well.
13:22:29 <Cheery> I'm going to sleep.
13:22:38 <Cheery> And let you wondering out that yourself.
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13:27:24 <rabbitwhite> blocks?
13:28:11 <rabbitwhite> sorry, i just enjoy them alot.
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13:46:22 <Ray_work> I do as well. I like coding in blocks. I think it's easy to code blocks that act like objects.
13:48:06 <rabbitwhite> for instance?
13:55:01 <rabbitwhite> gtg
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