00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.09.01 00:06:10 dream big, reach for the moon, and if you miss, you'll still be among the stars 00:06:25 heh. 00:06:33 i truely think it is criminal to not dream big 00:06:38 which means there are a lot of criminals :P 00:07:18 i think every kid dreams big.. until society stamps it out of 'em 00:07:26 On the other side of it, there are people who set their sites on the unachievable, and then use that as an excuse to never actually do anything. 00:07:36 sights, rather. 00:07:45 good point 00:08:15 i guess there's got to be a balance somewhere.. or the big dream has got to be broken down into more achievable steps.. 00:08:32 anyway i'm off to bed 00:08:36 nighty night 00:08:40 Sure. Or at least to educate oneself to understand whether the end goal is achievable. 00:08:43 See ya! 01:20:58 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 04:35:35 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend") 05:39:53 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #retro 06:11:46 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #retro 06:14:55 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #retro 06:14:56 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:15:29 Good morning. 06:16:33 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-19-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 10:49:11 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 11:10:08 Quartus: some dreams may not seem achievable, but if you didn't try, you'd never find out if they really were achievable.. all the major progress is driven by big dreamers.. like the wright brothers, nobody believed that flying was possible 11:10:23 its clearly more rational to be a big dreamer 11:10:27 and an optimist 11:11:28 and rationality is logic + the real world, hence a realistic person is a big dreamer + optimist 11:12:53 Remember what Sagan said. "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." 11:13:11 haha 11:13:27 bozo the clown wasn't a big dreamer ;P 11:13:41 Some "big dreamers" are simply ignorant buffoons who lack the proper understanding of what it is they think they have grand designs for. 11:14:21 So, by all means, go ahead and dream as big as your heart desires, but until you produce some kind of result, I'm busy. :) 11:16:31 too busy to dream for yourself? thats all i'm trying to encourge :P 11:16:34 encourage* 11:19:21 don't worry so much about those "big dreamers" that are crackpots and can't even clearly state the steps required to achieve their dreams 11:20:04 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #retro 11:20:33 wah, dreaming is good. 11:23:15 Too busy to listen to the vague maunderings of so-called "big dreamers" who have nothing more to contribute than to suggest that everything is bad, and should change. 11:24:33 yeah so don't listen to them jesus 11:24:38 That signals to me that the 'dreamer' simply doesn't have a sufficient understanding of what he's complaining about. If he doesn't understand it, it's therefore bad. 11:24:39 listen to your inner dreams 11:24:47 we're not talking about other dreamers anyways 11:24:51 who cares about other dreamers? 11:25:09 the whole point i was making was that its good to dream, don't be afraid to dream 11:25:14 so dream dammit! 11:25:15 heh 11:25:29 uh, you came in today talking about big dreamers. Specifically the Wright Brothers. They produced results. 11:25:50 i was continuing last night's conversation 11:26:10 Right. Which was about how you feel it's criminal for others not to dream big. 11:26:28 So we were, in fact, talking about other dreamers. 11:27:05 the benefits of everyone being big dreamers would far outweigh the crackpottery :P 11:27:18 but basically i was talking about motivation 11:27:31 I'm good to go motivation-wise, not to worry. 11:27:33 too many people just do crap with their lives.. 11:28:31 motivation comes from having big dreams 11:31:33 yeah, its all about achievement, instead of tinkering.. unless the tinkering produces real results 11:31:39 now tinkering is something that bozo the clown does 11:31:57 i guess tinkering is analogous to the "big dreamers" that get nowhere 11:32:33 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-113-011.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 11:36:25 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:40:19 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 11:40:37 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 12:15:50 --- part: Cheery left #retro 12:45:57 hi :) 12:46:42 Hi nighty. 12:46:51 pffiouuu 12:47:00 ? 12:47:10 just finished going around SIN , OHIP and Driver Licence with ;y wife 12:47:14 just finished going around SIN , OHIP and Driver Licence with my 12:47:16 wife 12:47:23 took me the whole day 12:47:33 Sounds about right. 13:00:16 I like SIN with my wife. 13:00:44 that's where Quartus says, "Me too" /joke. 13:21:35 --- quit: Snoopy42 (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:27:21 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-113-011.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 13:27:27 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-113-011.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 13:29:46 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 13:29:56 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 13:59:10 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #retro 14:09:49 good evening 14:10:18 hi crc. How are you today? 14:10:46 pretty good 14:11:41 I added you to the Forth wikipedia page. Have not heard back from Taygeta yet. 14:11:46 I'm going to start moving RetroForth over to the updated Rx Core tomorrow 14:11:48 ok 14:12:06 Excellent. 14:12:09 Ray-work: what about taygeta? 14:12:23 * crc has made some stability improvements to the RxForth as well; a new snapshot will be out tomorrow 14:13:00 hi futhin, I'm trying to get RetroForth listed on the Forth Compilers Page at Taygeta 14:13:22 have they even updated their site in years? 14:13:26 i thought they were dead 14:13:57 Maybe so. I contacted the webmaster. Don't know who that is. 14:15:01 It's okay, I just thought that if the "Free Implementations" link on the Wikipedia page pointed to the Taygeta Compilers Page, that RetroForth should appear on that page. But I've added RetroForth to the wikipage... a wash. 14:15:11 try skip@taygeta.com maybe 14:15:23 ya, great idea. Will do when I get home. 14:15:29 i think skip has been to #forth before 14:15:55 I believe I have seen him there as well. 14:16:21 better mention that ;) 14:16:41 mention? 14:16:56 oh that i've seen him in #forth? 14:16:58 yeah 14:17:08 grease the wheels so to speak 14:17:34 i reckon that all the @taygeta.com addresses go to skip anyways.. 14:18:29 I'm sure you are correct. 14:19:07 I wish I had assumed that when I started... "Dear Webmaster"... 14:20:53 heh 14:21:47 i've stopped using "Dear" in email, even in professional situations 14:22:00 it feels too stodgy 14:26:51 --- quit: timlarson_ ("Leaving") 14:28:32 shutting down for the week, see ya from home. 14:29:41 --- quit: Ray-work ("Client exited") 14:29:55 --- quit: futhin ("leaving") 16:14:51 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@CPE00119576a9c5-CM0012c90d36fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #retro 16:41:44 --- join: jas2o (n=jas2o@144.138.54.202) joined #retro 16:52:30 crc: new Standard Forth layer in a package with several extras up at http://quartus.net/retro/rfans.zip 16:52:45 I saw that this morning 16:53:04 I put a link to the file on the main page at retroforth.org as well 16:53:11 Cool. 16:53:33 I included modules.fs and structures.fs and ported some structures over from win*.h files. 16:54:49 And a memory-wordset implementation for win32. 16:54:54 Works like a charm. 16:57:37 Once I clean up my new faster.fs I'll pass it along, it's got new versions of a bunch of words that speed things up considerably. 16:57:43 SWAP, 2DUP, things like that. 16:59:16 cool 17:05:23 Brought a qsort benchmark down to within 2x of gforth-fast. 17:08:22 not bad, especially since I made no real attempt to optimize for speed 17:09:27 That 2x is with faster.fs and the code alignment. Without the faster.fs, it's quite a bit slower. 17:10:17 Without faster.fs, it's 2.5x slower than it is with. 17:11:25 You gotta love a modular forth. 17:11:29 have you done anything to separate code from data? 17:11:36 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 17:11:57 I did a bit of work on that, got some speedups moving code a few K away from data, but I think it'd need to be done at the kernel level to really reap the benefits. 17:13:40 Does any body know what that is the case? 17:13:51 yikes did I say that. 17:14:00 Does anybody know why that is the case? 17:14:28 If your code and your data are mixed, writing to the data invalidates the code cache. 17:14:35 And vice-versa. 17:15:13 I see. Thank you. 17:16:04 Gforth doesn't suffer from that, because its code is actually data (threaded), and not machine instructions. 17:16:24 Okay, thanks for saveing my next question. :) 17:16:59 Now, how large is this code cache? Isn't that the 'magic number' of distance to be away from the data? 17:17:22 There are some rules of thumb. I was reading some notes on pentium optimization yesterday. 17:17:48 in the IA-32 pdfs? 17:18:26 No, condensed overviews elsewhere. As I recall, data and code shouldn't be in the same 4K block. And it's a no-no to reference data immediatly following a branch or call. 17:21:56 yeah 17:22:14 that throws off the modern (586+) class cpu's 17:22:58 So inlining literals, for instance, is the way to go. And keeping dataspace separate from codespace. 17:23:26 For max speed, otherwise... 17:23:36 The slowdowns can be significant. 17:23:44 I see. 17:23:53 --- quit: Quartus_ ("used jmIrc") 17:25:18 Speaking for myself, I'd like to see the basic kernel architecture designed such that it has no inherent problems of its own; then you can optimize working from a solid base foundation. 18:33:06 --- join: nighty- (n=nighty@CPE00119576a9c5-CM0012c90d36fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #retro 18:48:18 --- quit: jas2o ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608]") 18:51:48 --- quit: nighty_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:18:47 --- quit: nighty- (Client Quit) 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/06.09.01