00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.08.07
00:55:12 <Raystm2> there are still serious bugs with placing pieces using pawn promote thru mv. 
00:56:22 <Raystm2> the idea is sound, just not manipulating things in the right order or filtering for problems. Bug is with promoting a square occupied with a king
05:10:15 <Raystm2> NOTE TO RAY...
05:10:52 <Raystm2> You need to check if king is staying in same file if so no castle.
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06:03:25 <Ray_work> While in the shower this morning: 
06:04:21 <Ray_work> I remembered that i'm not checking to see if the king is not moving 2. In that case skip all of the castle code. this should correct, once and for all using the promote system to handle 'chars.
06:04:53 <Ray_work> now that ive got that off my mind maybe I can work :)
06:07:21 <Ray_work> cool at 5:43:21 it was 08
06:07:45 <Ray_work> 08/07/06 05:43:21
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09:39:24 <Ray_work> crc: note, Please add projects/RxChess link to Contributions page.
10:04:51 <Ray_work> This will make RxChess accessible from the RetroForth front page under the heading Applications when someone clicks the link for contributions.
10:07:55 * Ray_work should write up my work in Glypher and provide it on your Glypher page.
10:09:04 <Ray_work> That ought to be the extent of my load. RxChess, RxColorForth, and Glypher docs and things.
10:09:33 <Ray_work> Till I can afford to quit my job and do Retroforth full time.
10:13:45 <Cheery> crc: I made a quick reference card with 22 forth words in it.
10:14:00 <virl> reference of what?
10:14:01 <Cheery> To help one of my friend.
10:14:13 <Cheery> reference of forth words.
10:14:28 <virl> sry, my stupidnes
10:14:56 <virl> your friend tries to code in forth?
10:15:05 <Cheery> he doesn't only try. ;)
10:15:30 <virl> hmm. how did you introduce him to forth?
10:15:31 <Cheery> He wants and I make the least I can to help him.
10:15:44 <Cheery> It contains the words which are common to many forth implementations, and which I consider important to know.
10:17:42 <virl> it's interesting to me, because everytime I need to explain why Forth is good, I only remember arguments which aren't valid for coders in highlevel languages
10:18:07 <Cheery> I neither remember. :)
10:18:36 <virl> so how did he come to forth?
10:19:47 <Cheery> you can say forth is simple to implement and very expressive, then show off some cool stuff. But I gues it doesn't help stubborn people.
10:20:06 <Cheery> It's good to keep quiet about forth unless somebody asks something about it or says something forth-like. :)
10:20:28 <Cheery> He is just like I was, just some very high mr. curiosity to get experience.
10:23:20 <virl> :-)
10:32:30 <Cheery> crc: I can mail it for you if you want.
10:32:38 <Cheery> to put it up into your sites.
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11:12:33 <crc_work> Cheery: please send it :)
11:13:11 <Cheery> ok. :)
11:18:10 <crc_work> it's now up at retroforth.org/contrib
11:19:42 <Cheery> I hope it'll be useful for someone.
11:20:11 <Ray_work> Henri: it is useful to me already :)
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14:45:58 <crc> good evening
14:50:38 <virl> hi crc
14:51:28 <virl> bah pix 20k and glypher has 16k, well it's not coded in C...
14:53:21 <crc> size isn't that important...
14:54:12 <virl> that's more true when it's only planned as a compiler for the real system :-)
14:54:29 <crc> glypher is actually bigger
14:54:39 <crc> the exe needs glypher_03.otl and template to work
14:54:42 <crc> as well as the .dll's
14:55:10 <virl> the C thing is only the portable boot thing which compiles the real system for the platform
14:58:43 <virl> and how is your development going?
14:59:31 <crc> 9.2.6 (minor updates) is almost ready
14:59:46 <crc> the handbook is now online (in a wiki-like editable form)
14:59:59 <crc> and a new projects section has been added to retroforth.org
15:00:46 <crc> the rdml tools gained support for hyperlinks (as requested by Ray) and I fixed some bugs in them
15:00:52 <crc> pretty good overall ;)
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15:09:12 <crc> how is pix going?
15:43:46 <Raystm2> Good evening.
15:44:21 * Raystm2 thinks he figured out a bug while in the shower  before work and has been wanting to fix it all day
15:45:41 <Raystm2> crc: i "played about" a little last night in the handbook.html. Very cool thing you have there.
15:48:04 <crc> glad you like it
15:48:26 <Raystm2> very convenient.
15:48:28 <crc> I fixed some formatting bugs in the rdml tools; so the docs display quality will be nicer tonight
15:48:43 <Raystm2> like no word rap in text?
15:48:50 <crc> yeah
15:48:52 <crc> and missing text, etc
15:48:53 <Raystm2> or is that on purpose?
15:48:57 <Raystm2> okay
15:49:43 <Raystm2> is there a \br to break a line?
15:49:53 <crc> I can add that
15:50:01 <Raystm2> or should I be using \pre in that situation, with \n/
15:50:05 <Raystm2> oops ?
15:51:24 <Raystm2> anything not in the RDML becomes a style feature for the entire line of products. :)
15:51:37 <crc> \br is added
15:51:44 <Raystm2> very cool.
15:53:54 <Raystm2> after i fix this bug there are two paths I can take.
15:54:08 <Raystm2> 1) persistance ( which is winning )
15:54:18 <Raystm2> 2) PGN translator.
15:54:40 <crc> persistance should be easy....
15:54:48 <Raystm2> thing is the PGN translator will have it's own natural persistance.
15:54:48 <crc> a) set the filename to save
15:54:55 <crc> b) revector how to:
15:55:04 <crc> 1) copy the input to the block buffer
15:55:07 <crc> 2) save
15:55:12 <crc> 3) evaluate the input
15:55:27 * crc is not familiar with PGN
15:55:39 <Raystm2> that is looking good. 
15:56:04 <Raystm2> the board is used to includeing the saved file to bring the persistance to the stack.
15:56:29 <Raystm2> a persistant file starts with the clear-board command ( cb) and ends with the mv command.
15:56:49 <Raystm2> inbetween are either b-18 numbers or 'chars
15:57:22 <Raystm2> during a mv the file is updated.
15:59:43 <Raystm2> I'm thinking that the proceedure is...
15:59:54 <Raystm2> enter a move on the commandline. 
16:00:00 <Raystm2> call mv
16:00:51 <Raystm2> mv includes the current persistant file, then tacks the new move to the stack.
16:01:05 <Raystm2> as the moves are executed a new persistant file is generated.
16:01:27 <Raystm2> when all moves are complete the file is written and ready to go again.
16:02:19 <Raystm2> PGN is portable game notation and includes things like:
16:02:42 <Raystm2> N3xg2 and e3 ( single destination for pawns) 
16:03:23 <Raystm2> you know, a piece, a possible disambiguation file or rank number or both, the x for take, and the destination.
16:04:06 <Raystm2> the tough part is determining which source square from the destination and from what we know about how chess pieces move.
16:05:48 <Raystm2> once we know the source we have a b-18 style move and can feed that to the smart-board.
16:06:43 <Raystm2> ya, i wanna do persistance first cuz UNDO is gonna be handy while coding the PGN translator
16:07:00 <Raystm2> and you can only UNDO with a record of moves...
16:08:28 <Raystm2> Earlier today I mentioned that I might like to expand what you have on the site about Glypher.
16:08:58 <Raystm2> I have a few proggies ( including ChuckBot) that i'd like to add there.
16:09:00 <crc> I can give you access to that if you'd like
16:09:04 <Raystm2> sure.
16:09:23 <Raystm2> eventually this will all lead up to the RxColorforth.
16:11:06 <crc> I added the glypher directory to your ~/projects
16:11:16 <crc> feel free to edit the html, upload new files, etc
16:11:45 <Raystm2> I am thinking that RxColorforth will be basically a re-write of Glypher, but with a more colorforth feel on top of a more modern Retroforth.
16:12:19 <Raystm2> Thank you.
16:12:48 <crc> np
16:12:58 * crc is glad to open up more for the community
16:14:31 <Raystm2> errand brb.
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16:16:57 <futhin> hey docl, do you remember what wiki i used on that forthology.com site?
16:17:05 * Raystm2 has to go on an errand but wants to be sure to say...
16:17:09 <Raystm2> Hey futhin.
16:17:14 <futhin> hi Raystm2 
16:17:25 <futhin> Raystm2: do you know about monolithic domes?
16:17:55 <futhin> the company is located 20 minutes south of dallas, so you're lucky ;)
16:18:11 <Raystm2> no never heard.
16:18:15 <futhin> crc, you remember what wiki i used on the forthology.com site?
16:18:20 <futhin> check out monolithic.com
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16:18:25 <futhin> domeofahome.com is an example
16:18:43 <crc> futhin: sadly I do not recall
16:19:26 <Raystm2> futhin: if you ever get a chance look at http://www.retroforth.org/projects/RxChess/  it has a minor bug when placing a piece over a king, but you shouldnt do that unless you are preseting up a board and put a k in a wrong place.
16:19:29 <futhin> oh its tipiwiki
16:19:45 <futhin> i was searching for tikiwiki and wondering why it wasn't the wiki i was looking for
16:19:51 <Raystm2> :)
16:20:39 <Raystm2> documentation of RxChess just started but the file in the repo is pretty self explanitory.
16:22:01 <futhin> Raystm2: yeah i guess i should check it out, i have a nasty habit of not following anybodys projects and not following changes in retro etc
16:22:23 <futhin> i'm pretty much still stuck in 2004 or whatever ;)
16:22:38 <futhin> but i haven't been focused on programming lately
16:22:55 <futhin> actually i'm thinking of skipping all the programming projects i was gonna do
16:23:19 <futhin> and just focus on harnessing the power of evolution to do all the "programming" for me
16:23:46 <futhin> it might take a bit longer, but the results will be worth it in the long run if i succeed..
16:25:21 <Raystm2> You have a point. It will surely work. 
16:25:54 <Raystm2> You may not get the benifit of "Being There" but you get to play with the final product, what ever that may be.
16:25:56 * crc will continue to code the old way, if for no reason other than the fact that he enjoys coding by hand and brain
16:26:04 <Raystm2> :)
16:26:29 <Raystm2> ya I like it too. Great way to focus the mind on tinsy little big problems.
16:26:36 <futhin> crc: i'm more interested in making the world a better place, on hopefully a large scale
16:26:56 <Raystm2> That is an excellent goal.
16:26:58 <crc> good for you
16:27:13 * crc codes as a hobby; so no conflict in that :)
16:27:18 <Raystm2> :)
16:27:39 <Raystm2> crc: you make the world better for at least me, and I know there are many others.
16:27:46 <futhin> when we can harness the power of evolution and the computational power is good enough, there'll be an explosion, any thing possible will be easily within reach..  if we want to get off the planet, we'll be able to evolve a spaceship within an hour, and then fly off, and then re-evolve the spaceship on the fly to colonize an asteroid etc
16:28:02 <Raystm2> bye now I really gotta go.
16:28:08 <futhin> ok cya ray
16:28:22 <Raystm2> now that's just plain not ready for prime time.
16:28:28 <Raystm2> :) see ya.
16:28:29 <Raystm2> brb
16:28:52 <futhin> crc: i'm a big believer in dreaming big, reach for the moon, even if you miss, you're still among the stars
16:28:58 <futhin> crc: dream big!
16:29:30 <futhin> please for the love of god, dream big (if the message is positive, is that taking the lord's name in vain?)
16:29:47 <crc> I see no taking of vain in your statement :)
16:30:14 <futhin> :)
16:30:29 * crc is interested in evolutionary processes within the computer realm, but not to the point of preventing myself from coding manually for fun
16:30:35 <futhin> man, take a look at monolithic.com, i think you'll like it, including the people behind it
16:31:06 <futhin> the people behind it are cool, they're christians and they like to have big families ;)
16:31:11 <futhin> do you think you're going to have a big family?
16:31:24 <futhin> i think it'd be cool to have like 4 to 6 kids ;)
16:31:28 <crc> eventually
16:31:33 * crc wants at least 4
16:31:44 <crc> my parents have four kids; it's a good number :)
16:32:33 <futhin> yeah
16:32:35 <futhin> i was an only child
16:32:56 <futhin> but i notice that kids that grow up with siblings end up being more hands on folks
16:33:03 <futhin> seems that way anyways
16:33:09 <futhin> more independent etc
16:33:26 <futhin> like i had two parents putting all their energy into me
16:33:37 <futhin> so i think i was spoiled
16:33:39 <futhin> not materially
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16:35:03 <futhin> monolithic domes are really neat, basically you inflate a dome shaped airform, go inside it and spray polyurethane insulation (2-3 inches) and then you put rebars around, and then spray concrete on about 3 inches also, and then you're done
16:35:25 * crc is reading over the site now
16:35:27 <futhin> its really cheap to build, covers a lot of space, has superior insulation, is impervious to hurricane/tornados/fire, etc
16:36:19 <futhin> and because the dome holds more volume, you have extra air, which lets you do creative stuff like have the computer allow fresh air in at night (assuming the day time is hot), that way it cools things down ;)
16:36:33 <futhin> a lot of really neat things about the domes heh
16:36:45 <futhin> i spent the last 2.5 days nonstop reading all the materials
16:37:38 <futhin> there's even a cheaper version that has no insulation, which is excellent for developing countries in tropical areas
16:37:47 <futhin> the materials end up only costing $1000
16:38:32 <futhin> to build a 20 feet diameter dome, about 314 sq feet, which slightly exceeds the sqft recommended by world health org
16:39:36 <futhin> if i had a big family, like 2+ kids, i'd definitely do some sort of farm
16:39:56 <futhin> or at least have a big enough property for some gardening/greenhouse and a few chickens & goats for milk..
16:40:03 <futhin> do you think you're gonna do anything like that?
16:40:23 <futhin> i mean if you have 4 kids and you want them to have a work ethic you gotta create work for em eh? ;)
16:41:52 <crc> I'll have a garden at least; not sure about animals though
16:42:34 <crc> we will eventually have a bit of property in new york state; I look forward to that
16:49:05 <futhin> free range chickens produce the healthiest eggs, and i'd probably eat much of the eggs raw because the nutrients are balanced..  plus fresh unpasteurized milk is way better, and doesn't cause the allergic reactions
16:49:52 <futhin> ever since i learned about nutrients i'm big on the idea of eating natural foods etc
16:50:37 <futhin> altho these days i don't necessarily eat as well as i should because i don't like doing the food prep, dealing with veggies etc..
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16:50:58 <futhin> sometimes i buy the organic salad in those plastic boxes but that's pricey
16:52:08 <futhin> i don't live near a superstore unfortunately
16:55:53 <docl> wow, the domes are cool
16:56:19 <Raystm2> back
16:56:43 <futhin> docl: yeah definitely :)
16:57:11 * docl may want to live in one :)
16:57:26 <docl> another idea that I like is straw bale houses
16:57:37 <futhin> a software company even built a company town using the ecoshells (no insulation) for all the domes  http://www.catalytic.com/news_photogallery_domes.asp?GID=6&SGID=67&CID=3
16:57:44 <docl> but inflatable domes might be better.
16:58:14 <docl> not bad looking
16:58:19 <futhin> well dome houses have a lifetime in centuries, not decades
16:58:45 <futhin> and its tornado/fire proof etc, lower energy costs etc
16:58:45 <docl> a definite plus there
16:58:50 <futhin> compared to some of the cheaper houses
16:59:26 <futhin> er, compared to some of the cheaper alternative housing
16:59:41 <Raystm2> futhin: i'm the oldest of 10 kids
16:59:43 <futhin> but there are some nice housing that you can build for like 5 grand or so
16:59:48 <docl> dome shaped inflatable structures will also be much cheaper in undersea and extraterrestrial environments
17:00:04 * docl is 3rd of 9
17:00:21 <Raystm2> I understand that 7 of 9 is the space babe.
17:00:31 <Raystm2> was the space babe...
17:00:33 <futhin> haha ;)
17:00:36 <futhin> jeez
17:00:47 <docl> heh that'd be my brother :)
17:00:49 <Raystm2> Step up the new space babe.
17:00:54 <Raystm2> hehe
17:01:06 <Raystm2> my dad is 5 of 9
17:01:31 <Raystm2> and turning 70 in a few days, so we are Reunioning.
17:01:55 <Raystm2> first time all 10 kids ( and their families ) will be in one place.
17:02:05 <virl> wow, big families.
17:02:20 <Raystm2> I left home before two of my brothers were  born and i've never met them.
17:02:51 <futhin> i think it's kinda shady how they made 7 of 9 and T'pol appear to have big boobs in their uniforms
17:03:22 <Raystm2> I was too, then I matured and realized those were tv boobs. :)
17:03:35 <futhin> lol Raystm2 thats crazy, never meeting two of your brothers
17:03:45 <futhin> how old are they now
17:03:56 <Raystm2> as old as my kids, 17 and 15
17:04:03 <futhin> cool
17:04:23 <Raystm2> my dad and i have kids the same age.
17:04:27 <futhin> lol
17:04:51 <futhin> its not really tv boobs tho, it seems a lot larger than normal tv boobs ..
17:05:01 <futhin> like they expect star trek geeks to be more into larger boobs or something..
17:05:11 <Raystm2> So, you went with the big screen then?
17:05:21 <futhin> lol no, i have a 13" tv
17:05:29 <futhin> and i still notice the size of the boobs lol
17:05:35 <futhin> takes up have the screen
17:05:38 <futhin> half*
17:05:47 <Raystm2> now you know why they enhance the upper shirt area on starBabes.
17:05:51 <futhin> lol
17:05:52 <Raystm2> 13 inch screens.
17:06:13 <futhin> actually i'm planning on selling my tv soon
17:06:13 <Raystm2> Size matters, dude!
17:06:18 <Raystm2> good on you.
17:06:30 <futhin> i'm way more productive with no tv
17:06:38 <futhin> right now its just unplugged heh
17:06:57 <docl> yeah no tv is way more productive
17:06:57 * Raystm2 was born in the tv generation.
17:07:05 <futhin> 2 plugins + cable to reattach, enough to deter me for the moment ;)
17:07:17 <docl> but I have lately had trouble filling that gap with webcomics
17:07:31 <Raystm2> :)
17:07:58 <docl> at least it's limited by the update speeds of the artists
17:08:06 <Raystm2> there is an entire world of influence that we will never get to enjoy because it's just so vast.
17:08:25 <futhin> a lot of the time, what stops me from watching tv or reading web comics is when i realize there's more material out there than i could hope to see/read in 5 years..  and i _really_ want to see all the movies, tv shows, comic books, manga, anime, etc
17:08:29 <docl> but if I find a new set of archives... *blam* where'd the time go?
17:08:48 <docl> then there's wikipedia :)
17:08:50 <Raystm2> both :)
17:08:54 <Raystm2> oh yeah!!
17:09:05 <Raystm2> weepee
17:09:13 <docl> you can find out all the highlights without even watching the show :)
17:09:22 <Raystm2> :)
17:09:39 <Raystm2> weepee is how you say wikipedia on the 4th day.
17:09:53 <futhin> actually a few years ago when i borrowed some star trek dvds for seasons 1 to 5, i would watch a lot of it at 1.5X to 2X speed
17:09:57 <futhin> so no sound,
17:10:00 <futhin> i'd just read the subtitles
17:10:12 <docl> heh I've done that :)
17:10:12 <Raystm2> cool that.
17:10:25 <futhin> if the subtitle timing is bad, like it disappears too soon, then i'm forced to go with 1.5X speed
17:10:30 <docl> you can also watch educational dvds at double speed
17:10:55 <Raystm2> futhin has solved the compresion for "too many shows-- not enough season"
17:11:18 <futhin> doing 2X speed for awhile, probably would leave ya feeling empty..  "what was the point?"
17:11:36 <Raystm2> you mean a reality check then?
17:11:49 <Raystm2> what was the point when you watched normally?
17:12:11 <futhin> nah i mean after watching a bit at 2X you realize that there's no reason to even watch it at all ..
17:12:16 <Raystm2> We claim "educational infotainment" but where do we use such knowledge.
17:12:18 <futhin> it doesn't have the same hook anymore
17:12:24 <docl> well, one time I stayed at my brother's place and he had a ton of dvd's, so I got a lot of Buffy and stuff that way
17:12:32 <Raystm2> :)
17:12:54 <Raystm2> I'm waiting for the entire 24 series to go dvd before I even watch one episode.
17:13:00 <futhin> oh man, i once watched a whole bunch of alias from like season 1 to 4 or something
17:13:05 <futhin> i never watched alias before
17:13:11 <Raystm2> then I'm gonna borrow them from the library...
17:13:17 <futhin> but when you watch alias on dvd one after the other, that's the absolute best
17:13:20 <futhin> you really get into the storyline
17:13:29 <futhin> because its always growing
17:13:35 <Raystm2> ya that one as well, just like 24
17:13:39 <docl> heh, yeah watching things as they happen is way less fun
17:13:42 <futhin> i never got into 24
17:13:46 <futhin> i don't understand why people like it
17:13:57 <Raystm2> people do. 
17:13:58 <docl> same goes for webcomics
17:14:05 <Raystm2> I think I will, if I have them all.
17:14:16 <futhin> docl: yeah, thats why i decide to wait most of the time
17:14:24 <futhin> like wait for tv series to finish heh
17:14:28 <docl> way more fun to plow through several months at a time and miss the cliffhangers
17:14:32 <futhin> then later on i can just get it all at once
17:14:35 <futhin> download it all or something
17:14:38 <futhin> and then watch it all at once
17:14:49 <Raystm2> heh: i'm older so I liked things like "WestWing" even tho i'm independant.
17:14:57 <docl> or rather, you get the cliffhangers, for a whole two seconds :)
17:15:01 <Raystm2> :)
17:15:15 <Raystm2> I hate cliffhangers give me Clift hangers.
17:15:19 <futhin> lies, more like 30 seconds ;)
17:15:34 <futhin> actually if its a good cliff hanger, its a good opportunity to go grab some food
17:15:37 <futhin> or go to the washroom etc
17:15:42 <Raystm2> well you have to get up and use the bathroom, get another soda... 2.5 min
17:15:44 <futhin> to relish the suspense
17:15:53 <Raystm2> ya
17:15:54 <futhin> and know you're going to discover the answer soon anyways!
17:16:00 <Raystm2> right.
17:16:05 <Raystm2> why carry that mess to work.
17:16:11 <Raystm2> all week
17:16:12 <futhin> lol exactly
17:16:22 <futhin> why get depressed ;)
17:16:28 <Raystm2> you missed the boat when the co-workers were wathcing anyway.
17:17:04 <Raystm2> round that water fountain, you have to cover your plot-line reactor ears.
17:17:26 <futhin> you guys ever watch anime?
17:17:45 <Raystm2> some.
17:17:48 <Raystm2> not much.
17:17:52 <docl> a rare treat for me
17:17:55 <futhin> well i'm not talking about the stuff you see on tv
17:17:56 <Raystm2> I like the genra
17:18:25 <futhin> best anime is the stuff you download, with the japanese speaking and english subtitles
17:18:45 <Raystm2> sure.
17:18:50 <Raystm2> makes sence
17:18:54 <futhin> a bit of an adaption, but makes more sense, less poor translation because you can hear their voices and over time you get a sense for what they're saying anyways
17:18:59 <futhin> plus japanese sounds cool ;)
17:19:07 <Raystm2> it does.
17:19:20 * Raystm2 was in Japan.
17:19:24 <futhin> nice
17:19:29 <Raystm2> Navy.
17:19:36 <futhin> i remember ;)
17:20:05 <Raystm2> dated a Japanesse ship capt'n's daughter one night.
17:20:46 <Raystm2> first time i'v been to a place where I felt what real racism is like on the wrong side of the stick.
17:21:10 <docl> yeah subtitles are educational, you get to learn japanese
17:21:20 <futhin> heh, you're a real gentleman for calling it dating when it was one night ;)
17:22:14 <Raystm2> it was a real date. I had to have an escort to get into a Jazz club cuz I was white. She worked at the bank where I changed moneys and she had some Engrish because of it.
17:22:25 <futhin> ah
17:23:00 <futhin> yeah asians are pretty racist
17:23:15 <futhin> actually i'm surprised at how many asians will have nicknames that include 'azn' in it
17:23:25 <futhin> i mean you don't see any other ethnicity doing that
17:23:33 <Raystm2> The club owner still made me buy the entire bottle of the drink I was drinking so I shared with anyone who would.
17:24:44 <Raystm2> Ya, well what about Arabs being named versions of the same thing that amount to "Glory be to God in the Highest"
17:25:33 <Raystm2> that's not really the same as a nickname tho, is it?
17:25:54 <futhin> yeah good point tho..
17:26:20 <Raystm2> Our names mean things too, they are just mostly depricated.
17:27:04 <futhin> yeah, the majority of our names seem to come from the bible
17:27:22 <Raystm2> ya.
17:27:24 <futhin> john, david, robert, thomas, alan, etc
17:27:41 <Raystm2> Doris is Arabic.
17:28:03 <futhin> i plan on naming my kids with unique names that aren't from any religious tome ;)
17:28:10 <Raystm2> hmm.
17:28:16 <futhin> might be tough tho
17:28:25 <Raystm2> MoonUnit is taken, so is Dweezle.
17:28:37 <futhin> well i don't mean truely unique
17:28:55 <Raystm2> Just not a run of the mill name
17:28:59 <futhin> yup
17:29:26 <Raystm2> pronouns are good. 
17:29:39 <Raystm2> Him. Should we take Him or not?
17:29:53 <Raystm2> Him doesn't feel left out now.
17:30:33 <Raystm2> I went with Him... and you know who I went with.
17:31:25 <Raystm2> When he does something and the Police ask who did you can point and say Him and be pretty sure you got the name right.
17:31:32 * Raystm2 quits*
17:32:08 <futhin> heh
17:32:12 * Raystm2 needs to write a chess game.
17:32:34 <futhin> aww, write a Go game ;)
17:32:50 <futhin> i've turned into a bit of a snob towards chess heh
17:32:52 <Raystm2> my autoCastle is corupting my Pawn-promtes.
17:33:08 <futhin> i blame it on the awesome manga & anime "Hikaru no Go"
17:33:15 <Raystm2> cool.
17:33:37 <futhin> i've watched the anime like 4 times and read the manga about 4 times too ;)
17:33:45 <Raystm2> you know, I don't think i really know Go.
17:33:46 <futhin> and it takes me like 6 hours to read the manga
17:33:58 <Raystm2> I see.
17:33:59 <futhin> and i read the manga twice in a two day period lol
17:34:44 <futhin> last time i read it, i basically started at 11pm and read until 8am (hmm, where'd the other 3 hours go?) and then i went to sleep, woke up, and read it all over again
17:34:54 <futhin> i like the manga better than the anime
17:35:09 <Raystm2> i don't know the manga
17:35:09 <futhin> you might not know this, but the anime tends to be made after the manga, and tends to be exactly the same
17:35:17 <Raystm2> cool.
17:35:17 <futhin> manga is the comicbook form
17:35:21 <Raystm2> cool.
17:35:24 <Raystm2> thanks 
17:35:30 * Raystm2 learns
17:35:53 <futhin> i find manga to be a lot better than the anime because i don't have to tolerate pauses in the anime (for suspense or whatever) and i can read as fast as i want
17:36:20 <futhin> so its a huge time saver, identical story line, and comics just plain rule ;)
17:36:58 <Raystm2> yes.
17:37:03 <futhin> and its better than watching dvds at 2X speed
17:37:15 <futhin> altho i'm not sure how to explain that ;)
17:37:40 <futhin> Raystm2: i can send you some manga if you're interested in trying some out
17:38:52 <futhin> i can start you out with a shorter comedy one called midori no hibi, i send jasonwoof that and he enjoyed it immensely
17:39:10 <futhin> beware, i'm offering you crack
17:40:45 <Raystm2> I know and i'm scared.
17:40:58 <futhin> lol
17:41:16 * Raystm2 liked crack. tho it never took me over. I prob'ly didn't give it a chance.
17:41:43 <Raystm2> I'm sure it effected me.
17:42:11 <Raystm2> I should prob'ly never talk about that part of my past. Doesn't leave a great first impression.
17:42:19 <Raystm2> Even if you do get over it all.
17:42:20 <futhin> heh
17:42:25 <futhin> i'm pretty open minded ;P
17:42:28 <futhin> some people ain't
17:42:42 <Raystm2> well I'm not scared here. Sorta family after a few years.
17:42:47 <futhin> i've only done weed/alcohol/tobacco/coffee
17:43:03 * docl only does coffee
17:43:08 <futhin> but i have a long-term interest in doing peyote, and maybe salvia divinorum
17:43:11 <Raystm2> I'm too ashamed to list them all. 
17:43:33 <futhin> i actually did weed about 15 times when i was 13-14 as a skateboarder
17:43:37 <Raystm2> Get a pharmacology text and just take out anything good for you.
17:43:48 <futhin> and then i stopped and didn't try again until 23 years old
17:44:08 <futhin> and even then i've only done it like 3 times over the last 2-3 years
17:44:16 <Raystm2>  what ever it is, it's not worth the money.
17:44:20 <docl> it's a good sign if you have the discipline to quit
17:44:26 <futhin> i'm interested in weed, i just don't smoke it ;)
17:44:34 <Raystm2> drink Drugs. not worth it at all.
17:45:04 <docl> coffee has some health benefits, otherwise I'd quit
17:45:19 <Raystm2> Quiting is easier when you can't afford it. Having kids and knowing they will do as you do and not as you say is enough to make one quit.
17:45:34 <docl> good point
17:46:03 <Raystm2> Guilt helps.
17:46:09 <docl> :)
17:46:23 <Raystm2> When I was addicted, I was guiltless.
17:46:51 <Raystm2> Now i'm addicted to RetroForth like I was colorforth and Glypher.
17:47:20 <Raystm2> great way to blow time, learn something and maybe provide something somebody else can use. Very productive.
17:47:33 * docl has some guilt about webcomics
17:47:38 <docl> and not having a job
17:48:00 <docl> retroforth is a better addiction
17:48:08 <Raystm2> dude, don't sweat the job thing. You'll work most of your life, don't worry.
17:48:08 <docl> much less guilt-producing :)
17:48:13 <Raystm2> :)
17:48:28 <docl> helped me get over uncontrolled mudding
17:48:33 <Raystm2> we should write something that supports us all so we can code more.
17:48:44 <docl> yeah
17:48:52 <docl> retro support group
17:48:58 <Raystm2> hehe.
17:48:59 <Raystm2> ya
17:49:10 <Raystm2> Great name for the group btw.
17:49:22 <docl> junkies unite! :)
17:49:59 * docl is studying c++ in an effort to overcome the job thing
17:50:00 <Raystm2> it's a Twelve stepper.
17:50:18 <Raystm2> 1) google retroforth.
17:51:13 <Raystm2> 2) /join #retro
17:51:21 <Raystm2> 3) order pizza
17:51:29 <Raystm2> ( that's what i'm doing) :)
17:53:03 <futhin> i'm jobless yet again
17:53:11 <futhin> didn't bother showing up for fedex :/
17:53:21 <futhin> this week
17:53:43 <futhin> well basically i got back from vacation on monday morning and then went to work at fedex in the evening (evening shift)
17:54:01 <futhin> and then the next day i just didn't feel like going.. wanted to relax and recover from my vacation
17:54:08 <docl> darn
17:55:17 <futhin> i really need to get a job doing CAD work because that's interesting, pays a bit better, and i have work experience with that and i'm familiar with autocad etc..
17:55:27 <Raystm2> 4) download everything
17:55:35 <futhin> but my CAD job was back in 2000
17:55:42 <docl> vacations are crazy, very dangerous.
17:55:43 <Raystm2> oh wait /me catching up.
17:55:46 <futhin> so it's kinda hard to get back into that market i guess..
17:55:51 <futhin> heh
17:56:02 <docl> particularly if you don't like your job :)
17:56:37 <Raystm2> yes.
17:56:41 <futhin> well my vacation was a moving vacation, helped my dad move his stuff from kamloops (central BC) to campbell river (3/4 north on vancouver island)
17:56:50 <futhin> that took 2 days, then immediately we went on a 2 day sail
17:57:02 <futhin> because my dad lived on a sailboat in campbell river while teaching at the college
17:57:18 <Raystm2> oh how cool.
17:57:30 <futhin> and then i met with my mom for 2 days, then went rock climbing, then did a 3 day and surprisingly gruelling hike
17:57:36 <Raystm2> If'n I wer single...
17:57:39 <futhin> and then came back right away
17:57:59 <Raystm2> cool. great trip.
17:58:01 <Raystm2> way to live.
17:58:03 <futhin> it was a vacation where i didn't get any time to sit around and relax, like i'm accustomed to
17:58:20 <Raystm2> yes!
17:58:27 <docl> no wonder you felt like taking a *break* afterwards
17:58:31 <futhin> exactly
17:58:37 <futhin> had to withdraw into my shell
17:58:48 <futhin> plus i kinda felt a little depressed..
17:59:09 * docl gets that at times
17:59:47 <docl> you have to know firmly that it's just a biochemical reaction and all that stuff you imagine isn't real (at least no more than it ever is)
17:59:55 <Raystm2> I did that off and on in the past. be depressed. Trying hard not to let it happen again.
18:00:40 <docl> yeah it's just from endorphins/seratonin/etc. levels getting too low
18:00:43 <Raystm2> mostly I think it is very self indulgent
18:01:09 <futhin> yeah its a bit of everything
18:01:13 <Raystm2> is that so? I should get back on drugs, good ones.
18:01:35 <futhin> a bit of not getting enough outdoors exposure, a bit of not eating as healthy as i could, a bit of napping too much, etc
18:01:40 <docl> which usually means not enough exercise, sunshine, social interaction, heigine, or something else controllable.
18:01:52 <docl> yeah too much REM sleep is a biggie
18:02:05 <futhin> Raystm2: let food be your drugs and drugs your food  (to paraphrase a famous quote)
18:02:28 <Raystm2> :) /m lost lots of pounds after quiting drugs.
18:02:51 <Raystm2> I wanna eat a pizza, i eat a pizza. :)
18:02:58 <futhin> docl: i'm still shocked you drink coffee, "for health reasons".. why not drink green tea instead, there's caffeine in that too ;P
18:03:07 <Raystm2> but I think i'm lacking in nutrients.
18:03:16 * docl has been experimenting with a technique called BSFF
18:03:26 <futhin> Raystm2: do you get lots of veggies? :P
18:03:36 <docl> well I live at home and everone else drinks coffee so it's convenient
18:03:44 <futhin> yeah
18:03:50 <futhin> have you found it makes a difference?
18:03:57 <futhin> i recall at one point you weren't a coffee drinker
18:04:06 <futhin> so you've only been drinking coffee since hte last year or so?
18:04:32 <Raystm2> futhin: not fresh ones :(
18:07:24 <docl> BSFF involves defining a trigger word to direct the subconscious to treat emotional root problems whenever it is used.
18:08:10 <docl> basically the idea is the subconscious does whatever you tell it, but it is very literal and has to be told exactly what you want
18:08:24 <docl> or what it thinks you want
18:08:24 <futhin> Raystm2: do you live near a superstore?  what my dad does is buys a bulk bag of lettuce and chicken and stuff, and does stuff like making chicken salad, which is pretty easy
18:08:52 <futhin> i really need to get into the habit of eating veggies with every meal 
18:09:07 <futhin> i have a tendency to just eat bread & eggs or bread & tuna  (both with mayo)
18:09:08 <docl> good idea
18:09:26 <futhin> cuz its cheap that way..
18:09:53 <futhin> NLP also does the trigger thing too
18:10:05 <docl> it might be similar to nlp
18:10:17 <futhin> but I've been far too skeptical to bother trying anything like that out 
18:10:39 <futhin> what have you been telling your subconscious with BSFF ?
18:10:50 <futhin> i imagine you have to repeat it every day for 30 days
18:10:51 <futhin> or something like that
18:11:06 <docl> to resolve any and all emotional issues that are hindering me in any way, basically
18:11:13 <futhin> apparently it takes about 21 days of daily reinforcement to form a new habit
18:11:18 <docl> I seem to have made progress
18:11:18 <futhin> altho most gurus will round that out to 30 days
18:11:29 <docl> forming a habit of it wasn't a problem
18:11:43 <futhin> today i started a plan, 30 minutes of writing a book for 30 days
18:11:50 <Raystm2> futhin: super store about to be built soon.
18:11:54 <futhin> Raystm2: nice
18:12:08 <futhin> actually i'm writing a book on raising children
18:12:18 <futhin> kind of a blueprint for myself and others
18:12:29 <docl> possibly because the course includes material directed at keeping you from stopping against your better judgment
18:12:37 <futhin> i've got a lot of very specific ideas on how i want to raise my kids so i want to talk about that and bring it together into a cohesive whole
18:12:37 * docl has considered that
18:13:02 <docl> except the thing is, I'd feel funny about authoring such a book having raised no children to date
18:13:16 <futhin> yeah i know, that's why its just a blueprint type of book
18:13:19 <futhin> "for myself"
18:13:26 <futhin> then i'd write another book after having kids ;)
18:13:33 <docl> good idea
18:13:37 <Raystm2> that's okay docl, Dr Spock was childless, and look how he screwed us all up.
18:13:43 <futhin> lol
18:13:58 <futhin> yeah dr spock was crazy :/
18:14:03 * docl tries to remember which field that guy was from
18:14:06 <docl> autism?
18:14:19 <futhin> yeah he was some psychologist or psychiatrist
18:14:38 <Raystm2> we all suffer that bastard.
18:14:42 * docl believes in the socionics system
18:15:01 <futhin> socionics is a really unfortunate name
18:15:11 <docl> it explains a lot regarding interpersonal communication and friction
18:15:14 <docl> true
18:15:21 <futhin> it activates my "crackpot" detector heh
18:15:36 <docl> it attracts crackpots too :)
18:15:39 <futhin> yay
18:15:40 <Raystm2> puts me in mind of L.Ron Hubbard.
18:15:51 <docl> but I assure you it has legitimate elements
18:16:00 <docl> in fact it's surprisingly solid
18:17:10 <Raystm2> problem with any "theory" is the Uncertainty Principal. But when you talk about humans in this way, you limit them to fit the model.
18:17:12 <futhin> well i don't see how anything that "is based on Carl Jung's work on Psychological Types, Freud's theory of the conscious and subconscious.." can be solid
18:17:16 <docl> it's similar to MBTI, but with more predictive elements. also, it defines the differences between types more falsifiably
18:17:31 <docl> aww that's just buzzword harmonics for ya
18:17:48 * docl makes up a new term
18:17:50 <futhin> anything derived from carl jung & freud is gonna be flawed ;)
18:17:52 <Raystm2> :) hehe cool.
18:18:14 <docl> freud and jung were cracked. doesn't mean they didn't name a few things that needed names
18:19:12 <futhin> brb
18:19:14 --- quit: futhin ("leaving")
18:19:16 * docl finds the terms "logic" and "emotion" more descriptive than "thinking" and "feeling". but "sensing" and "intuition" are hard to replace.
18:19:50 <docl> I mean, "sensing" includes any kind of physical sensation, which is somewhat like "feeling"
18:19:58 <docl> and "thoughts" could be anything
18:20:19 <docl> nonetheless, the acronyms work ok
18:20:24 --- join: futhin (n=wunderwa@bespin.org) joined #retro
18:21:09 * docl is NiTe, which is called INTp in socionics circles
18:21:28 <docl> but that could be more close to INTJ in MBTI terminology
18:21:33 <futhin> i really really don't think that personality typing will work really.. because you'd need thousands of types to really be fair..
18:21:47 <docl> futhin: you could have sub-types if you like
18:22:04 <docl> 16 major groups, unbounded number of subgroups
18:22:21 <futhin> docl: it seems to name intp/nite "critics".. boy thats a bad name
18:22:31 <docl> heh
18:22:35 <docl> or "observer"
18:22:37 <docl> or "victim"
18:22:49 <docl> (Ni whatever is victim)
18:23:00 <futhin> strong J would be critic
18:23:03 <futhin> not P..
18:23:10 <docl> ought to be.
18:23:23 <docl> hard to say whether the same system applies to introverts though
18:23:37 <docl> because you are percieved by others more by your extraverted trait
18:23:48 <docl> which is auxillary in an introvert
18:24:12 <docl> hence less important from a sanity point of view
18:24:36 <docl> is logic what makes you sane? or how you express yourself creatively?
18:25:11 <docl> with ENTJ it's the former. with INTp it's the latter. otherwise they're pretty similar.
18:25:16 <futhin> the introvert/extrover thing in MBTI is about where you get your energy from primarily
18:25:22 <futhin> and where you expend your energy
18:25:30 <futhin> i'm a very socially extroverted INTP
18:25:51 <futhin> well, not a very patient one
18:25:55 <futhin> i prefer big bangs
18:25:57 <docl> extroverted intuition, or extroverted logic?
18:27:11 <docl> INTj and ENTP are similar to each other as well. they tend to seem more crackpot-ish, although beneath the surface they can be very logical
18:27:38 <docl> socionics.com was written by an INTj. I find it very hard to read.
18:29:04 <futhin> introverted intuition thinking perceiver..  the auxiliary for intp is extraverted sensing
18:29:18 <futhin> introverted intuition
18:29:24 <docl> nope, that's the dual
18:29:40 <docl> NiTe = SeFi dual traits
18:29:52 <futhin> i'm talking strictly mbti
18:29:56 <futhin> i don't know anything about socionics
18:30:10 <futhin> do you have trouble reading kc5tja's stuff?
18:30:13 <futhin> he's an INTJ
18:30:34 <docl> not what it says at http://typelogic.com/intp.html
18:30:54 <docl> TiNe SiFe are the traits listed there.
18:31:08 <docl> which correspond to a socionics INTj
18:31:39 <docl> INTp corresponds to what typelogic classifies as INTJ.
18:31:55 <futhin> INTP
18:31:56 <futhin> Introverted Thinking with auxiliary extraverted iNtuition
18:32:03 <futhin> ok i guess i was wrong
18:32:17 <docl> yeah. easy to get mixed up at though
18:32:50 <futhin> the people that seem to care the most about this personality typing crap are INTx's
18:33:01 <docl> you should see if you fit the INTJ profile just as well as INTP. they are so vaguely worded you can get a foreir effect anyways
18:33:14 <futhin> the intp yahoo group is huge for example ;)
18:33:18 <docl> yeah
18:33:33 <docl> which is probably an even mix of confused INTx's
18:33:52 <docl> a critical attitude isn't really what makes you a j or p in socionics terms
18:34:19 <docl> it's more which one seems most important, gathering information or pinning down it's meanings
18:34:30 <futhin> but when i found out all the "INTPs" were not exactly the same as me, i lost interest
18:35:17 <docl> right. half of them are your quasi-identical type, probably INTj. not at all interested in the same aspects of things.
18:35:33 <futhin> like i was expecting that most INTPs were anti-geting a stupid piece of paper from university ;P
18:36:00 <docl> or at least anxious to defend their position logically
18:36:41 <futhin> anti-jumping thru a bunch of arbitrary hoops to get a piece of paper for the sole purpose of getting a job to do nothing but work for the rest of their lives and die ;P
18:37:38 <futhin> btw, i seriously doubt that any of the "crackpot" type of writing otu there are written by intp's or intj's
18:37:52 <docl> futhin: do you identify more with the idea of being Ni or Ti? i.e. would you rather keep logical ideas or intuitive ideas to yourself to refine and think through to the nth degree before sharing?
18:38:12 <docl> the child-rearing book idea seems very Ni to me
18:38:16 <futhin> probably keep em to myself
18:38:25 <docl> which one?
18:38:58 <docl> it's either/or if you're an NT type at all
18:39:40 <futhin> eh? so its a choice between keeping the logical ideas to myself or keeping the intuitive ideas to myself?
18:39:45 <docl> yeah
18:40:00 <crc> Raystm2: use this to add images to the handbook: \image <url>
18:40:49 <docl> you're either NiTe or TiNe (if you're an INTx)
18:41:03 <docl> that makes one of the traits extroverted
18:41:13 <futhin> jeez, thats a hard question to figure out..  i probably keep the logical ideas to myself simply because its so hard to explain the logic fully..
18:41:39 <futhin> but i might also withold intuitive ideas if i have to explain the logic of them..
18:42:00 <futhin> intuitive ideas are logical anyways, but arrived at thru a different process
18:42:05 <docl> right
18:42:13 <docl> and communicated differently, generally speaking
18:42:52 <futhin> i've always wanted to write a book or write a blog, but have never done so partially because of fear of writing down imperfect stuff and getting into wasteful arguments etc..
18:43:10 <futhin> a perfectionist desire i guess..
18:43:43 <docl> so you're perfectionistically refining your inner beliefs and trying to explain only what you understand logically?
18:45:18 <docl> the amazing thing is you find out other people have a *totally* different set of fears/insecurities as you do.
18:45:48 <docl> which makes communication with them a long, slow process at times.
18:46:49 * docl hates to sound illogical, and will often shut up rather than express a sentiment he doesn't understand
18:49:18 <docl> or at least I have to have some kind of logical handle on it
18:49:53 <docl> doesn't have to be perfect, but has to at least be going somewhere logical
18:51:19 * futhin is doing the personality test for socionics
18:51:29 <docl> cool
19:02:46 <futhin> aww, the personality test doesn't tell me which one i am without paying
19:03:38 <docl> must have picked the wrong one
19:03:47 <docl> the one you sent me to was fairly accurate
19:04:00 <futhin> i wasn't doing the mbti one
19:04:07 <futhin> i wanted to do a socionics one..
19:04:11 <docl> only thing was it's j/p scale wasn't quite right
19:04:37 <docl> http://socionics.com/sta/sta-1-r.html
19:04:50 <futhin> ok
19:04:53 <futhin> You scored 45 in the area of extroversion/ introversion, which means that your energy is directed primarily inward, rather than outward. Your mixed score in this trait creates an interesting and alluring combination of traits: You are social yet also very reflective and introspective. You like to be around people, but too much interaction drains your energy. You need to retreat every once in a while in order to recharge your batteries. Keep these needs in mind
19:05:12 <docl> that's a silly test
19:05:14 <futhin> when choosing the ideal work situation for
19:05:15 <futhin>                you, otherwise you won't feel happy.
19:05:36 <futhin> whats silly?
19:05:50 <docl> extroversion isn't a hard value like that
19:06:07 <docl> it depends which trait you emphasize, and whether you use your dual mode a lot
19:06:34 <docl> if you emphasize your creative side, you are going to be more extraverted if you are a natural introvert
19:07:06 <docl> also if you use your dual side (fun? I'm not sure how to define it) it will also make you more introverted
19:07:17 <docl> i.e. extraverted sensing if you're NiTe
19:07:26 <docl> s/introverted/extroverted
19:08:29 <Raystm2> Thanks crc: got it!
19:09:52 <Raystm2> Must be careful of image file placement, I think. Binaries prob'ly shouldn't be part of the repos. ? . ?
19:11:51 <crc> 9.2.6 is out
19:11:58 <futhin> docl: ya know, we could just harness the evolution stuff to figure out all the personality typing for us, instead of dealing with all this wishywashy stuff that is more based on philosophy than scientific studies
19:12:34 <crc> Raystm2: it won't hurt if they are in the repo
19:14:42 <futhin> docl: whats my personality type if i just closed the windows for the personality test and the other personality pages i had? ;P
19:14:54 <crc> 9.2.6 moves docstring: to the default build; this allows app-specific help without needing the help.data to be loaded first
19:15:06 <crc> and it may have a few minor cleanups as well
19:15:06 <docl> yer INTp
19:15:22 <futhin> imma gonna focus on doing work instead..  personality typign is too much mental masturbation for me, altho i used to engage in that a few years ago 
19:20:17 <Raystm2> Oh how cool, thanks crc.
19:20:30 <Raystm2> I'll upgrade very soon, like sometime tonight.
19:21:23 <Raystm2> crc: In the manual should I just say that the chess works with the 9 series from 2.5 and beyond till it breaks and then fix the chess?
19:21:42 <Raystm2> and update the series.
19:21:47 <crc> Say that it works with 9.2.x
19:21:47 <Raystm2> do the manual.
19:21:53 <Raystm2> okay
19:22:04 <crc> nothing should break before 9.3 at the earliest
19:22:28 <Raystm2> RxChess numbering is: ( in my mind) ...
19:22:35 <Raystm2> with out a number, crc original.
19:23:43 <Raystm2> 0.0 is the smart-board currently 0.0.2. where 0.0.1 used all functions and 0.0.2 is move does all functions.
19:24:01 <Raystm2> then from there I will have a list of accomplishments to get to the next levels.
19:24:36 <crc> sounds good
19:25:12 <Raystm2> eventually, when all is complete, they will follow the RetroForth major number and minors will be spacific to RxChess.
19:25:16 <docl> futhin: sound like an INTp, perhaps I should recallibrate
19:26:13 <Raystm2> I suppose that means no 1.0.0 but when 1 is reached it will become 9 to follow Retro.
19:27:05 <docl> *INTj
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19:31:00 <futhin> docl: well i've been making more effort to be less of a perceiver and more of a doer..
19:31:04 <futhin> still a work in progress
19:31:11 <futhin> docl: btw, what did you use BSFF on?
19:31:17 <futhin> er
19:31:23 * futhin rereads log..
19:31:31 <crc> Raystm2: it's taken about 8 years for Retro to reach 9 
19:32:13 <futhin> crc: 5 of those years are yours?
19:32:13 <Raystm2> :) great things take time.
19:32:58 <Raystm2> But I think it only makes sence to reflect the Retroforth version in the RxChess version that it runs on.
19:33:09 <crc> futhin: about 4
19:33:23 <crc> approaching 5 total 
19:33:53 * Raystm2 assumes crc met his wife in church...
19:34:12 <Raystm2> Cuz how do you meet a woman when all you do is code and praise?
19:34:13 <crc> at a chuch service while I was in college, yes 
19:34:28 <Raystm2> :)
19:34:31 <Raystm2> had to be.
19:34:34 <crc> I praise, code, and work :)
19:34:34 <Raystm2> had to be.
19:34:44 <Raystm2> oh yeah and raise kids now.
19:34:51 <crc> yup
19:35:06 * crc wanders off towards the bed.... another long day awaits me :(
19:35:11 <Raystm2> Children are terribly hard to program.
19:35:17 <Raystm2> night!
19:35:35 * Raystm2 fixes the Castleing error.
19:39:32 <docl> futhin: the main trigger is to treat unconscious issues/phobias/etc. I basically just think one of the trigger words whenever something of an emotional nature bothers me, and it seems to make it go away.
19:40:21 <docl> I have also made some custom triggers which are intended to treat things like acne, posture, energy levels, etc.
19:52:10 <futhin> my trigger to fix my posture is to think of my posture ;P
19:53:00 <docl> to set them up, I use a command like "subconscious, when I use this trigger, you are instructed to do the following:" followed by a list of instructions that I'm reasonable confident my subconscious is capable of
19:53:28 <futhin> what would be unreasonable instructions?
19:53:37 <docl> the trigger can be to think of the problem, so that works
19:53:43 <docl> hmm not really sure
19:54:07 <docl> I guess any that don't work might be unreasonable
19:55:48 <docl> I have been trying some that are fairly general in nature, i.e. "take any appropriate action that will cause my acne to be cured," followed by some suggestions like "boost my immunity to acne-causing bacteria"
19:57:40 <docl> it's still very much in the experimental stage for me
19:57:52 <Raystm2> you
19:58:02 <Raystm2> sorry
19:58:38 <docl> could probably be used effectively against depression
19:59:18 <Raystm2> you're subconscience understands the language that you do so I have to say that if you can program or even tilt the program with you're words, it would have to work that way to work
20:00:12 <docl> hmm. last time I was depressed I used bsff, then listened to some classical music. the music seemed to do the trick, but I'm not so sure it was unrelated to the bsff suggestion.
20:01:05 <docl> yeah the unconscious seems to know what you're talking about as long as you do.
20:06:10 <docl> the powerful idea I think is addressing the subconscious directly, then attaching the given set of instructions (which can be very complex and comprehensive) to a cue so you can re-trigger them any time you like
20:14:57 <timlarson__> there was a discussion earlier about monolithic domes....anybody interested in another idea?
20:16:23 <docl> I'm all ears
20:16:38 <timlarson__> combine what is at these two links:
20:16:47 <timlarson__> http://www.xanadome.com/
20:16:54 <timlarson__> http://foiltec.com/
20:17:14 <timlarson__> (the ideas, not the companies)
20:19:10 <futhin> docl: i've seen people talk alot about getting rid of acne on one of the channels i was on 2 years ago, i think they were focusing mostly on peroxide, but there was another one that i can't remember the name of (if i saw it, i'd remember it)
20:19:49 <futhin> timlarson__: care to summarize the ideas? ;)
20:20:15 <futhin> i guess your ideas focus on transparency
20:20:39 <futhin> but i wonder if its cost effective to get insulation with transparency
20:20:49 * docl has been taking hot and cold showers (hot to clean the pores and cold to close them)
20:21:21 <docl> interesting dome ideas
20:21:24 <timlarson__> the insulation comes from a large air gap between layers of the plastic.
20:21:48 <docl> transparancy is cool, makes for a year-round growing season
20:22:00 <timlarson__> I am working out a way to do this without crossing their patents.
20:22:07 <docl> could solve the world's hunger problems
20:22:21 <timlarson__> ...which will also happen to make them cheaper and easier to build and stronger :)
20:22:28 <futhin> timlarson__: neat
20:22:49 <futhin> i guess xanadome's structural design is a compromise to get good strength and still have those pesky beams ;P
20:23:15 <timlarson__> a traditional dome has a lot more pesky beams...
20:23:23 <docl> of course, in space patents don't apply ;)
20:23:41 <timlarson__> a xanadome replaces a lot of comparatively heavy beams with much lighter, stronger cables...
20:24:04 <timlarson__> docl, don't be so sure...
20:24:30 <timlarson__> the commercialists always have found a way to lock things up for money.
20:24:43 <Raystm2> Haliburton owns space. Ask them. lol
20:25:00 <timlarson__> I don't think space will be any different unless we have a change in our social-economic structure.
20:25:16 <docl> they can't regulate what they can't find
20:25:21 <Raystm2> Yes. Everybody should be a stock holder in everything.
20:25:46 <Raystm2> ... in everything 'cept what you don't believe in .
20:26:36 <Raystm2> Every year the stock holders should share the profits of the entire economy and every year those profits should be spent on what ever it is an indiviual needs and loves to do.
20:26:54 <futhin> timlarson__: yeah but no beams for the monolithic dome ;P
20:27:02 <timlarson__> futhin, are you usually around?
20:27:25 <timlarson__> monolithic dome is one-large-beam
20:27:28 <futhin> actually i was thinking that maybe the airforms could be in a geodesic shape, so that you have flat sides and that might make it easier for windows and such
20:27:47 <futhin> i haven't been around lately but i can be around, i'm a seasoned irc idler ;P
20:28:12 <timlarson__> you might find our new channel #keow interesting
20:44:13 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #retro
20:44:31 <erider> hello all new to retroforth 
20:44:41 <docl> welcome, erider 
20:45:03 <erider> hi docl
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21:00:45 <nighty_> hi girls :)
21:25:57 <Raystm2> Fixed! the problem with castleing problem cross tied into the pawn promotes.
21:41:34 <Raystm2> is 0.0.2 done!?
21:46:46 --- quit: crc (Remote closed the connection)
21:48:18 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-70-110-183-96.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #retro
21:48:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc
22:33:23 --- quit: nighty_ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke")
22:52:50 <futhin> docl: i really think there are better languages to learn to get a job with..
22:53:02 <futhin> but i suppose it depends on the type of programming jobs you would like to have
23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/06.08.07