00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.07.24
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06:14:25 <Ray_work> Good Morning!
06:15:06 <docl> Good Morning :)
06:15:38 <Cheery> blah
06:15:46 <Cheery> Just a power cut.
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06:31:44 <Ray_work> hi docl hi Cheery hi Ray_work oh that's me :)
06:34:57 <Cheery> hi
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08:47:59 <tathi> what's with the random nicknames?
08:48:57 <Cheery> random nicknames?
08:49:33 <tathi> Roger is usually rabbitwhite
08:50:11 <tathi> but yesterday he popped in very briefly as silvousplait, and today pourlepoissons :)
08:50:32 <tathi> rabbitwhite: so how's the gamecube thing going?
08:50:51 <tathi> or are you on to a new project now?
08:51:07 <rabbitwhite> is that a challenge? :)
08:51:41 <tathi> no, just curiosity :)
08:52:40 <rabbitwhite> well, it's true i have tended to jump off boats erratically in the past, but this project sails on
08:52:48 <rabbitwhite> actually it's sort of done
08:53:20 <rabbitwhite> i'm about to look back at my old unfinished games and decide what to do with it
08:53:45 <tathi> oh, I certainly can't critisize -- I'm terrible about finishing projects.
08:53:56 <tathi> that's cool
08:56:48 <tathi> oops, I misspelled criticize
09:02:25 <Cheery> I'm too quite bad at finishing. :)
09:02:36 <Cheery> Usually can't stop programming at night.
09:03:28 <tathi> I'm getting better though
09:04:00 <Cheery> Me too
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10:02:17 <docl> : keyparse 0 repeat over key tuck =if drop nip pad swap ;then over pad + c! 1+ again ;
10:02:55 <docl> mimics parse, but works in loops
10:22:54 <docl> : qle dup for dup r - (line) 10 keyparse rot swap move next . ." lines entered." cr ;
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10:35:15 <rabbitwhite> does anyone here use blocks?
10:35:34 <rabbitwhite> i mean, does anyone ELSE use blocks, besides me
10:39:06 <virl> sure, when they come handy ;-)
10:39:27 <rabbitwhite> so you must use block files then
10:41:02 <virl> sure, when they come handy again. so like in colorforth or any native forths.
10:42:53 <virl> rabbitwhite, why do you ask?
10:45:33 <rabbitwhite> it doesn't matter, since i was looking for others who were constrained to using blocks exclusively too
10:46:15 <rabbitwhite> just looking for ideas for making the most of them
10:46:33 <virl> well I don't use them really on OSes because open then with a normal editor is a pita
10:47:02 <rabbitwhite> ????
10:47:23 <rabbitwhite> oh, you mean opening blockfiles with a text editor.
10:47:28 <rabbitwhite> is a pity?
10:48:48 <virl> pita = pain in the ass
10:48:57 <rabbitwhite> ha
10:49:12 <virl> (except when there would be a vim mode for blockfiles)
10:49:31 <rabbitwhite> well you're supposed to use a block editor, anyway.
10:50:00 <virl> problem, most block editors are bad really bad, imho.
10:58:17 * docl uses them fairly often, just for the heck of it
10:59:38 <rabbitwhite> cool
10:59:48 <rabbitwhite> in retro?
11:00:05 <docl> yeah
11:00:49 <docl> although I have to admit I use vi or another editor for a lot of things
11:02:16 <rabbitwhite> that's cool, i don't consider it to be a certain level of status or anything to be using blocks
11:03:00 <docl> I figure blocks are good for simple things, but files make complex stuff easier to work with when you have to.
11:04:54 <rabbitwhite> that's interesting, i've found that blocks have made it easier to do more complicated apps
11:05:59 <rabbitwhite> my main problem with blocks is not in using them to write programs its mostly in organizing them
11:07:05 <rabbitwhite> but i'm guessing you haven't had to use them that much in depth for that to be an issue...
11:07:22 <docl> well, with vim I can easily correct mistakes. and it doesn't cut my line lengths off as soon
11:07:39 <docl> yeah I'm probably not really using them right
11:09:42 <rabbitwhite> i'm sure its something like tieing your shoes, you find a way that's right for you 
11:10:03 <rabbitwhite> or whatever you were taught ...
11:10:49 <rabbitwhite> i'm wrestling with this idea of blocks as entries in a database
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11:11:19 <docl> well, I know how to easily correct mistakes in vim. I make more mistakes if my code is sloppy and complicated. ergo, vim is better for sloppy code
11:12:02 <docl> also, vim has longer lines available, so I can more easily write long, sloppy functions.
11:12:59 <rabbitwhite> you like writing long, sloppy functions?
11:14:03 <docl> not really. it's just that's what often comes out when I don't know what I'm doing yet.
11:15:39 <rabbitwhite> i had the same problem with standard blocks
11:18:49 <rabbitwhite> ironically, my fix wasn't to make the blocks bigger, i made them narrower - 39 cols by 26 rows - line cut/paste seemed to make the constraint an advantage
11:19:42 <rabbitwhite> anyway isn't the discussion over blocks and text files old by now?
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11:51:51 <rabbitwhite> oops guess i'm the only one who thinks so.
12:01:33 <virl> rabbitwhite, liking blockfiles or what?
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15:24:32 <I440r> did futhin check mail yet ?
15:36:42 <crc> good evening
15:37:07 <crc> not yet
15:37:19 <crc> he hasn't logged into bespin since the 20th
15:49:09 <docl> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=59 <- a page viewer for blockfiles
15:51:14 <I440r> damn
15:51:26 <I440r> u think he is gone for good ?
15:51:36 <I440r> or will he log in eventually ?
15:51:46 <crc> he will log in eventually
15:52:44 <crc> docl: it ignores the first character typed when evaluating a command
15:56:06 <docl> true. I should fix that.
15:56:30 <crc> or at least document it
15:57:20 * docl made a much messier version at http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=58
15:57:48 <crc> yuck :)
15:58:38 <docl> forgot that v was already in existence :)
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16:08:49 <docl> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=60 <- an evil, evil solution in 32 cols
16:09:39 <crc> 32-col lines?
16:09:44 <docl> yeah
16:10:36 <docl> I've been thinking of using 32-column lines instead of 64
16:10:40 <crc> similar in size to roger's new block layout
16:11:06 * crc has toyed around with the idea of shorter lines
16:11:56 <docl> yeah, I actually have modified my local copy of edit to do 32 columns. I did that coding in vim, however.
16:12:09 <rabbitwhite> 32 was one of my considerations because its just like a magazine column, the narrorwer the columns the easier to read ... but you lose alot of the ability to write one-liners
16:12:28 <crc> docl: do you use 16 lines?
16:12:30 <rabbitwhite> 39 was the compromise... its JUST ABOUT enough to still be able to write oneliners easily enough
16:12:32 <docl> yes
16:14:10 <docl> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=61
16:14:13 <virl> rabbitwhite, do you have a screenshot of you gb-forth?
16:14:46 <rabbitwhite> no, 
16:15:08 <rabbitwhite> i'm not making any until i have something finished of artistic value to show
16:15:44 <rabbitwhite> anyway just try to imagine a dos screen filled dwith yellow-on-black or cyan-on-white text
16:15:52 <rabbitwhite> that's pretty much what it looks like most of the time.
16:16:24 <crc> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=62
16:16:25 <virl> reminds me on the old basic screens
16:16:34 <crc> this formats the display a little better
16:29:37 * crc is interested in a display showing two 32x16 blocks side by side
16:29:56 <rabbitwhite> hey did you get that idea from me too?
16:30:07 <crc> rabbitwhite: yes
16:30:22 <rabbitwhite> haha
16:30:26 <rabbitwhite> :)
16:30:52 <docl>  : .line -16 + negate dup @base <if space then . ; <- works in octal
16:32:37 <docl> or hex, for that matter :)
16:40:56 <crc> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=63
16:41:38 <crc> left is the code block, right is a shadow block
16:42:22 <docl> wow, looks like a book
16:47:32 <docl> looks neat in hex with @base in .line
16:52:07 <docl> : .line -16 + negate dup @base <if 0 # then . ;
16:55:52 <crc> I don't like the numbers when they shows as 01 02 etc
16:55:53 <crc> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=64
16:55:58 <crc> some cleanups
16:56:21 * crc could introduce the modified editor in 9.2.1....
16:58:28 <Raystm2> :) 
16:58:41 <Raystm2> man this is a fun chat room. :)
16:58:58 <docl> there are three modes now: wide, narrow, and shadow
16:59:12 <crc> this breaks wide
16:59:46 <crc> though I could allow selection of narrow/dual column modes...
16:59:47 <docl> there could also be a 16*64 mode
16:59:50 * crc thinks on this
17:01:55 <Raystm2> something that formats the output file alitle more sanely ... 
17:02:26 <Raystm2> I read a block file in an outer editor and line 2 is several lines down and way to the right.
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17:07:00 <docl> Raystm2: yeah, blockfiles viewed in a regular editor are insane
17:07:10 <docl> as are regular files in a blockfile editor
17:08:28 <Raystm2> AH i'm seeing something i didn't consider, thanks docl :)
17:08:54 * Raystm2 lives with it, and has no real problem anymore.
17:09:55 <Raystm2> this means that i will have to do a text formating buffer for the chess save-game.txt persistance file, and not use the editor as once thought. 
17:10:07 <Raystm2> And parse it.
17:10:08 <crc>  : row-type for dup c@ dup 10 =if drop 32 then emit 1+ next drop ; 
17:10:08 <crc>  : row dup 32 row-type 32 + ;
17:10:33 <crc> replacing row with these allows files to at least not break the lines in the editor
17:10:58 <Raystm2> is that wrapping row i'm looking at?
17:11:05 <crc> yes
17:11:08 <Raystm2> thanks :)
17:11:19 <crc> it basically replaces newlines with spaces
17:11:48 * Raystm2 will collect that from the log before long...
17:12:31 * crc is very tempted to switch 9.2.1 to this dual-column editor
17:12:39 <docl> :)
17:13:11 <crc> and provide a wide one as a loadable option :)
17:13:27 * docl is tempted to go into quadral mode
17:13:47 <crc> too many for me ;)
17:13:58 <crc> three is about the max I can work with comfortably
17:14:33 <Raystm2> crcdoit
17:14:47 <docl> base 4 I mean... base 3 would be kinda complex
17:14:53 <crc> ahh
17:14:59 <crc> 4 !base
17:15:25 <docl> 3 !base will break formatting :(
17:17:25 <crc> so does 1 !base
17:17:37 <crc> retro doesn't handle unary very well :)
17:18:10 <docl> hehe
17:18:36 <Raystm2> !base should really test out that case.
17:18:51 <Raystm2> you  could kill someone with that :)
17:22:48 <docl> maybe we should start teaching Retro Ed classes
17:23:02 <crc> docl: my latest patches are in the repo now
17:23:18 <crc> you can update to the development version of 9.2.1 now :)
17:23:35 <crc> and http://retroforth.org/902.tar.gz for the binary snapshot
17:24:13 <docl> neat
17:25:19 <crc> I should just go ahead and push 9.2.1 out and drop 9.2.0....
17:27:33 * crc does it
17:30:06 <crc> I'll have to redo the gtk+ editor example now :)
17:34:26 <crc> The new editor should be more pleasing to code under, and the ` prefix will be handy as well (for me at least)
17:43:49 <docl> neat, a compile prefix
17:44:05 <crc> yeah
17:44:09 <docl> prefixes rock!
17:44:11 <crc> it beats x: <foor>
17:44:18 <crc> `foo
18:07:14 <crc> goodnight
18:07:25 <docl> see ya
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