00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.07.20 00:23:29 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-20-242.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 04:09:45 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:10:08 --- join: Cheer1 (n=Cheery@a81-197-20-242.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 04:15:51 --- quit: Cheer1 (Remote closed the connection) 04:18:19 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-20-242.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 04:20:52 --- join: docl_ (n=docl@74.36.210.133) joined #retro 04:32:02 --- quit: docl (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:51:14 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #retro 06:01:24 --- nick: docl_ -> docl 06:32:36 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #retro 07:08:54 * docl has been experimenting with small linux distros under qemu 07:10:51 docl: cool 07:10:56 dsl is nice feature-wise, but takes a bit of time time starting up. I enabled the -std-vga flag and it started rendering graphics much faster. 07:11:19 k. 07:11:32 * Cheery is reading practical file system again. 07:12:19 * docl doesn't recall hearing of that before 07:12:49 something to do with Be, according to google 07:13:00 yes. 07:13:26 cool, it has a PDF available 07:13:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_File_System 07:13:35 http://www.nobius.org/~dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf 07:14:13 It's been written by one of person who wrote BE file system. 07:14:40 It tackles with BFS and generic file system design. 07:15:33 Therefore I keep it as an excellent learning material from file systems, and that way I'm thinking I could use it's knowledge to create my memory management scheme. 07:16:17 cool 07:20:29 docl: btw. what do you think about shallow data and return stacks? 07:20:49 (meaning only 4 or so, cells p stack) 07:22:46 well, you should never directly use more than three elements on a stack. but indirectly (loops and nested functions, etc.) it's sometimes acceptable imho 07:23:21 however, in this case you could probably save the static part of the stack to a seperate memory area fairly easily 07:24:53 yep, and when you think about it, in data stack this wouldn't be bad idea, because you usually never use more than 4 elements from a stack. 07:25:09 right 07:25:33 with return stack, it could be a slightly more complicated. 07:25:42 perhaps 07:25:59 but anyway, even with that, you wouldn't possibly need more than 4 07:26:14 not with proper use of variables and such. 07:26:24 er...4 really isn't enough in my experience 07:26:25 regular recursion could be simulated with a separate return stack. 07:26:30 8 is tight, but livable 07:26:43 16 is enough for most anything, except recursive stuff 07:26:43 and that'd make you think about tail-recursion. 07:27:27 I don't know, It just feels a good idea after all. 07:28:04 tathi: what are some examples of good code that needs more than 4 elements? 07:28:21 basically you could construct the data stack from a register, and multithreaded programming would get easier. 07:28:30 docl: oh, are you just talking about single words? 07:28:32 you'd have less data to be moved per process. 07:29:36 yeah, for nested words and such I'm thinking you might have to move the bottom part of the stack to another area 07:30:13 ok. I thought you were talking about the whole system 07:30:28 don't mind me then :) 07:30:33 :) 07:30:41 how does the system use the deeper parts? 07:31:06 s/system/program/ 07:31:12 * docl notices a few elements on the rs in the interpreter loop of retroforth 07:31:29 you don't generally just go one word deep 07:31:57 if each word uses 2-3 stack elements, it only takes a couple of levels of nesting to get to 8 elements on the stack 07:33:47 so basically to handle that you'd need multiple stacks/arrays 07:34:29 which could be complex to handle 07:37:42 I'm guessing it'd be an usable concept to make more efficient processors designs for more efficient computer programs. 07:38:20 yeah seems like it 09:10:55 --- quit: docl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:11:31 --- join: docl (n=docl@74.36.210.133) joined #retro 09:11:56 --- quit: nighty ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 09:13:03 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #retro 10:00:56 --- join: virl (n=blah@vie-086-059-017-056.dsl.sil.at) joined #retro 12:15:44 --- quit: virl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:29:58 --- join: virl (n=blah@vie-086-059-017-040.dsl.sil.at) joined #retro 13:17:02 was retroforth written with FASL and itself? 14:02:36 is 'pix_set_wordtype' a too long function name? what do you think? 14:10:25 depends. 14:10:33 I prefer long words and big spaces. 14:10:48 makes code clear to read. 14:11:02 function name shouldn't be short, it should be easy to write. :) 14:11:11 pix_set_wordtype 14:11:26 took only few seconds to write, so it is. 14:11:33 I'd prefer: pix-set-wordtype 14:11:50 because it's even shorter to write, because of one-press spaces. 14:19:24 well, iirc, C only supports as delimiter '_' ;-) 14:22:32 C sucks. 14:22:39 :P 14:22:46 * Cheery loves to say that. 14:23:38 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 14:41:08 yeah, that's to some degrees true. but it's the language on which a lot of OSes are based, so it's needed. 14:54:29 --- quit: Shain (Remote closed the connection) 15:30:36 --- join: Shain (i=steve@c-67-161-56-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #retro 15:45:36 --- quit: virl ("Leaving") 15:53:22 --- quit: Shain (Remote closed the connection) 15:54:03 --- join: Shain (i=steve@c-67-161-56-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #retro 16:33:18 --- quit: Shain (Remote closed the connection) 16:49:32 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-151-197-229-145.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #retro 16:54:32 good evening 16:55:04 --- join: Shain (i=steve@c-67-161-56-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #retro 17:00:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 17:13:59 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #retro 17:27:47 docl: are you here? 17:50:51 Hi crc. 17:51:11 hi Ray 17:51:49 * Raystm2 is finally released from light duty, but not from doctors care. 17:52:08 is that good or bad? 17:54:23 9.2 is pretty close to release quality now :) 18:08:14 hi crc 18:08:32 neat! 18:09:05 docl: I sent you an email (docl@retroforth.org) 18:09:28 crc: it is good and on the way to great. 18:10:13 Raystm2: thanks 18:10:34 I may have the hosted versions ready by this weekend 18:10:39 :) 18:11:08 I was answering your question to me, but now I see the duality of my statement and it applies to both thoughts. 18:11:10 the native port will be out of sync for a while longer, pending some overhauls of the boot process and install routine 18:11:25 Raystm2: ahh, good then :) 18:12:02 docl: basically I enabled your ssh account to edit parts of the retroforth.org site (specifically, the main page, and the 'contribs' section) 18:12:19 * Raystm2 will be spending less time on the computer over the next few weeks as I prepare to go to Massachusettes 18:12:44 * Raystm2 notes that I shall be passing thru Penn and we are going to stop at the bell. 18:12:56 Massachusettes is a good distance away from Texas 18:13:02 the liberty bell? 18:13:08 cool, all I need is to remember my password :/ 18:13:19 got it 18:13:22 My route takes us thru 1800 miles both ways. 18:13:26 gotta go eat now 18:13:32 docl: ok 18:13:36 yes the Lbell. 18:13:39 that's a nice drive 18:13:46 we are renting. 18:13:53 I live less than an hour away from the Liberty Bell 18:13:58 :) 18:14:00 that's cool. 18:14:07 * crc needs to take a vacation someday.... 18:14:48 * Raystm2 will leave the secret code in a used Subway Sandwich bag in the trash can behind the Information Office. 18:15:00 ok 18:16:14 Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville, DC, Philly, NYcity... all stops on the way. 18:16:25 cool 18:18:33 I havn't seen my Father in 20 years, and I have 2 brothers I've never met. I'm the oldest of 10 kids. My wife and kids have never met my parents. ( my mom died when I was 6 and dad remarried and had 7 more kids ) 18:19:21 I left home 25 years ago and was only home once for Christmas, 20 years ago. 18:19:41 I'm so very excited about going that it's hard to sleep nights. 18:20:24 wow 18:20:31 * crc hopes you have a good trip 18:21:31 Thank you. I'm certain we will. 4 days in the car and 3 days in Ma. 18:33:18 docl: I just added the documentation dir and rdml as well 18:35:22 Oh yeah, I started to use the pipe comment token as if it were the capital i in comment statements, and the | hated it. 18:35:45 you end up with a lot of... 18:35:50 Raystm2, did you see my PM earlier ? 18:36:06 did you see what I returned? or did it not go thru? 18:36:16 I bet i'm not identified... 18:36:18 didnt see anything 18:36:23 wait here we go... 18:36:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Raystm2 18:37:37 there that should fix it. 18:37:41 get it now? 18:38:13 * Raystm2 wishes he could get vIRC2.0 to auto identify on the way up. 19:14:52 --- quit: Shain (Remote closed the connection) 19:18:48 --- join: Shain (i=steve@c-67-161-56-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #retro 19:23:41 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 19:33:04 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-142-192.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 19:40:53 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 19:40:57 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 19:46:05 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-20-242.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #retro 21:01:53 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/06.07.20