00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.07.09
06:23:03 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro
07:14:55 <crc> good morning
07:35:24 <docl> good morning
07:48:24 <crc> the gtk+ bindings work properly under suse :)
07:49:07 <crc> now I can start working on a compatible set of gtk 1.2 bindings
08:11:48 <crc> and it works :)
08:11:59 <nighty> hi crc :)
08:13:13 <crc> hi nighty
08:16:15 <crc> the current bindings for gtk1.2 and gtk2 are on the contribs section now
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09:02:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc
09:05:02 --- mode: ChanServ set -bb *!*@gprs-pool*.mobnet.ru *!*@*modnet.ru
09:05:02 --- mode: ChanServ set -bb *!*modnet.ru@* dom--2!*@*
09:08:07 <Raystm2> Hi.
09:08:13 <crc> hi ray
09:08:46 <Raystm2> I've been trying to keep up with your changes. You have worded very well lately :)
09:09:14 <Raystm2> worded-- worked = interchangeable in that last sentence.
09:11:27 <crc> thanks
09:15:27 <Raystm2> What is on your plan for today?
09:15:59 <crc> finish setting up my local development environment under suse linux, then I don't know
09:16:19 <Raystm2> Oh yes, new HD and new OS, right?
09:16:28 <crc> yeah
09:16:31 <virl> develope a giant big *woosh* application
09:16:41 <Raystm2> :)
09:16:44 <Raystm2> hi virl.
09:18:37 * Raystm2 is reading many things currently... Thinking Forth, Glenn B. Haydon's "The Forth Guide", and Threaded Interpretive Languages.
09:22:52 <crc> virl: can you send me or pastebin the latest x11 bindings?
09:24:27 <virl> ok, I changed not much.
09:29:28 <virl> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=16
09:30:22 <Raystm2> import takes the number of args?
09:30:29 <crc> yes
09:30:34 <Raystm2> cool.
09:30:46 <crc> if you need a variable number of args, you can use map: and invoke
09:34:08 <crc> virl: thanks
09:36:05 <Raystm2> virl, that is very well done work there!
09:40:41 <crc> I have my local source trees, fasm, darcs, and such in place now
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09:47:59 <virl> Raystm2, is it understandable?
09:52:12 <Raystm2> Yes, so far, I believe I can understand what each and every def does.
09:52:19 <Raystm2> very well done. :)
09:54:20 <Raystm2> of course, the usage word helps greatly..
09:55:20 <Raystm2> which reminds me, crc: the doc header pointer, what a marvelous idea. puts me in mind of what Python does.
09:57:48 <Raystm2> if the doc pointer points to an area where the docString is kept, and the docString is a quick one-liner of the description of the word, and the docString had a pointer itself to the deeper, manual discussion of the word... That would seem like a very efficient way to document in full, every word.
09:58:11 <crc> it's pretty handy :)
09:58:46 <crc> I am exploring several useage options
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10:00:40 <Raystm2> hmm, depth of the docString in the docString memory area could be matched with the depth of the word in the manual, and that could be a handy way to get to either.
10:01:39 <Raystm2> of course, I don't know what implications that has for maintaining code...
10:02:05 <crc> it'd take a lot of time to keep the manual and docstring pointers in sync
10:03:14 <Raystm2> I imagine you are correct. I was assuming that in an alphabetical listing of both, the docString and the manual entry, they would always be at the same depth. But that depends on always maintaining both.
10:03:34 <Raystm2> easy to get off track.
10:05:08 <Raystm2> except in the case where the docString is always part of the manual doc, like a synopsis or Usage string. 
10:05:41 <Raystm2> and the doc pointer points to that.
10:06:59 <crc> yeah
10:07:07 * crc is working on retrospect a bit more
10:12:40 <crc> it's working very well for my needs :)
10:13:25 <Raystm2> and that's all that counts. :)
10:14:06 <Raystm2> is the darcs ready for me to update my copy?
10:14:06 <crc> the single primary thing it adds is "inspect" which gives lots of useful information about a word
10:14:39 <crc> length, class, whether or not is a vector, and a hex dump
10:14:52 <Raystm2> excellent!
10:15:40 <crc> the only thing that stumps it is vocabularies :)
10:15:53 <Raystm2> :)
10:17:12 <crc> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=17
10:17:17 <Raystm2> Is the Darc's ready for me to update? Or should I wait abit?
10:17:29 <crc> it's ready
10:17:57 <Raystm2> okay thanks.
10:18:34 <crc> http://retroforth.org/newlib.tar.gz for the work-in-progress library of code to go along with 9.2
10:19:10 <Raystm2> okay, just download that and add to the proper directory?
10:19:33 <crc> that'll decompress to a "library" directory
10:20:23 <crc> I'm still organizing it, but it has goodies like syntax highlighting for the block editor, the assembler, retrospect, gtk, x11 (thanks to virl), and some other stuff too
10:20:45 <Raystm2> cool.
10:20:57 * Raystm2 wondering where I put my darcs...
10:21:01 <Raystm2> searching...
10:21:33 <Raystm2> found.
10:21:57 <crc> darcs get http://retroforth.org/repos/902
10:22:16 <crc> or download http://retroforth.org/902-beta.tar.gz for a binary snapshot of the repo
10:23:31 <crc> I haven't figured out how to do a "getretro" type thing for Windows yet :(
10:24:13 <Raystm2> no prob, time i learned how to do it like ya'll do.
10:25:24 <crc> on linux/bsd systems, I have this nice script that will download, link, and put the retro binary in the proper place automatically
10:25:47 <crc> set it as a cron job, and it can be updated every 24 hours, with no user interaction :)
10:25:56 * crc needs to do that here
10:26:13 <Raystm2> I hope that someday, I will be competent enough to help you do such things for the windows ports.
10:30:36 <Raystm2> darcs: MODULES-0: renameFile: permisson denied. 
10:30:42 <Raystm2> not sure what that means.
10:30:55 <crc> hmm
10:31:00 <Raystm2> looks like darcs tryed to rename a file during update and could not.
10:31:03 <crc> what version of darcs do you have?
10:31:08 <Raystm2> 1.0.3
10:31:17 <crc> upgrade :)
10:31:21 <Raystm2> yes sir.
10:31:22 * crc is using 1.0.7
10:31:26 <Raystm2> upgrading...
10:32:35 <crc> http://glozer.net/darcs/
10:32:51 <Raystm2> oh thank you . :)
10:37:19 <Raystm2> I have to initialize a new repo, no?
10:38:16 <crc> no
10:38:27 <crc> just do darcs get http://retroforth.org/repos/902
10:39:13 <crc> initializing is only needed to create a completely new repo, not to obtain one
10:39:48 <Raystm2> hmm then i failed somewhere. :(
10:40:15 <crc> still getting the error?
10:40:45 <Raystm2> I downloaded darcs 1.0.8, and put in it's own directory in the windows folder. 
10:41:13 <Raystm2> then called darcs get http://retroforth.org/repos/902 and got this error.
10:41:29 <Raystm2> libcurl HTTP error (404?) 
10:41:34 <Raystm2> what's that, not found?
10:41:40 <crc> yes
10:41:51 <crc> but it's there... I just pulled from that location
10:42:10 <crc> in this case, I'd recommend just downloading the binary package
10:42:14 <Raystm2> okay.
10:42:25 <crc> http://retroforth.org/902-beta.tar.gz
10:47:54 <Raystm2> that worked :)
10:48:16 <crc> good ;)
10:50:46 <Raystm2> O
10:50:50 <Raystm2> i
10:50:52 <Raystm2> doh.
10:51:09 <Raystm2> i've got the newlib now, Put in it's own folder?
10:53:25 <crc> yes
10:53:56 <Raystm2> at what  level? side by side with 'extras' folder?
10:54:03 <crc> that's a good place
10:54:08 <Raystm2> okay , thanks
10:54:11 <crc> np
10:56:47 <Raystm2> where do i find the documentation to load my progy files?
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10:57:02 <crc> load <filname> \f
10:57:03 <Raystm2> hi docl :)
10:57:07 <docl> hiya guys
10:57:12 <crc> wb docl
10:57:16 <Raystm2> thanks crc.
10:57:24 * docl just got back from church
11:00:04 <docl> include <filename> or -f <filename> also works
11:00:16 <crc> -f is not in the windows version
11:00:34 * Raystm2 learned that -f was not avialable recently.
11:00:38 <docl> darn
11:01:03 <Raystm2> ya, darn that i won't get off lazy and put up a linux on one of these boxen I have lying about.
11:02:22 <Raystm2> my poor daughter is waiting for me to update all the drivers in her box so that directX 10 will work and she can play latest SIMS
11:02:46 <crc> heh
11:02:53 <crc> is DX10 even out yet?
11:03:01 <Raystm2> or 9 i think.
11:03:15 <Raystm2> latest one, at any rate.
11:03:17 <crc> 9
11:03:19 <Raystm2> ya.
11:03:21 <crc> 10 is coming with vista
11:03:43 <Raystm2> and then i'll have to do it again...
11:04:20 <crc> a new system for vista :)
11:04:34 <crc> docl: I will look into adding -f and include back to the windows port
11:04:51 * crc removed them when he dropped the (buggy) command line support
11:05:03 <docl> cool
11:07:05 <Raystm2> cool load worked.
11:07:27 <Raystm2> retroChessB18Board codeing has commenced.
11:07:33 <docl> sweet! :)
11:08:02 <Raystm2> should take acouple weeks to re-write this in the retroForth language... will be fun. :)
11:10:24 * docl considers writing networking support for it
11:11:23 <docl> crc: is there a way the interpreter could sense control keys and evaluate them immediately?
11:12:00 <crc> not portably
11:12:10 <docl> darn
11:12:25 <crc> You can turn off buffering and interpret raw keycodes, but it gets messy quick
11:14:33 <docl> well, there's lots of potential apps where instant evaluation of keys is desirable
11:17:03 <crc> I know
11:17:17 <Raystm2> is there a command line load?
11:17:58 <crc> Raystm2: not for windows
11:18:21 <Raystm2> okay.
11:18:48 <crc> that may change, but no guarantees
11:19:37 <Raystm2> requires arg passing?
11:20:29 <crc> Windows returns the command line in a way that is completely different than than Linux/BSD/BeOS/etc
11:20:46 <Raystm2> I'm sure it does. :(
11:27:22 <crc> Raystm2: I just upload a new patch and binary snapshot that may allow the command line to be recognize
11:27:31 <crc> *if there are no spaces in the path*
11:27:49 <crc> e.g., c:\retroforth\rf-windows words 
11:27:52 <crc> will work
11:27:54 <crc> but
11:28:10 <crc> c:\documents and settings\crc\Desktop\rf-windows words
11:28:12 <crc> will not
11:29:14 * Raystm2 knows how to handle the path when long path names need to be converted to 8.3, so thank you :)
11:29:15 <docl> with quotes or backslashes?
11:29:48 <crc> docl: the command line parser will not handles quotes
11:29:52 * Raystm2 will test immediately.
11:29:57 <crc> and backslashes are the path separator on windows
11:30:44 <crc> it'd be like:  c:\docume~1\crc\Desktop\rf-windows words
11:33:30 <Raystm2> will relative paths work or do I have to start from c:\
11:33:56 <crc> relative should work
11:34:11 <Raystm2> exellent, shall try that first.
11:41:53 <Raystm2> now clicking rf-windows.exe causes an error ( not critical as far as I can tell) that repeats the path that starts the windows port.
11:42:16 <crc> try putting it in c:\retroforth
11:42:43 <Raystm2> that will help much :)
11:43:28 <Raystm2> and it does.
11:44:24 <crc> good
11:44:44 * crc will have to make a note of this to include in the manual
11:45:36 <Raystm2> I don't think i'm doing this correctly.
11:46:10 <Raystm2> C:\retroforth>rf-windows C:\retrof~1\rcb18.fs
11:46:24 <Raystm2> *** ERROR: "path" not found.
11:46:48 <crc> c:\retroforth\rf-windows -f c:\retroforth\rcb18.fs
11:46:54 <crc> no > in the path....
11:49:49 <Raystm2> sorry the part west of > is the prompt.
11:50:14 <crc> ok
11:50:17 <Raystm2> but I wasn't using the -f switch. :)
11:50:30 <crc> retro interprets the command line
11:50:46 <crc> not just loads files 
11:50:52 <Raystm2> :)
11:50:58 <crc> rf-windows ." hello world!" cr bye
11:50:59 <Raystm2> that works :)
11:51:13 <Raystm2> it loaded and executed the file. 
11:51:25 <crc> good :)
11:51:49 <Raystm2> now I can create a .bat that will do such a thing and the two chessboards will be functionally equiv.
11:52:41 * Raystm2 tests this
11:55:21 <Raystm2> :)
11:55:45 * Raystm2 cleans up bat file but it works great.
11:58:19 <Raystm2> hehe retroforth echos the "echo off" command in the .bat :)
11:58:59 <Raystm2> BUT does not echo the rem that the echo off is turning off, so that's cool.
12:00:22 <Raystm2> wait that's prob'ly the command prompt doing that. 
12:00:34 <Raystm2> I think I know how to quash that.
12:05:19 <Raystm2> hehe first command to retroforth must need to be clear.
12:07:38 <Raystm2> added cls command after echo off and this fixes it.
12:07:46 <Raystm2> in the bat file that is.
12:08:45 <Raystm2> so now i have a bat file that loads the chess file and only displays the test of 8 stars at the top of the screen. this is optimal for the chess game.
12:09:34 <Raystm2> I only need to convert all of my case statements, do to for/next, and use the better if statments included with retroforth.
12:09:45 <Raystm2> or so I think.
12:12:58 <Raystm2> coded carefully, I may end up with a version that runs in retroforth, gforth and win32forth.
12:18:52 <Raystm2> all supporting codeing files have been created, the work begins.
12:24:11 <crc> @echo off
12:24:34 <crc> that will prevent the "echo off" from being displayed by command.com/cmd.exe
12:25:02 <crc> retro does have traditional if, =, <, >, and <> now
12:25:21 <crc> in addition to herkforth style =if <if ... and the new t, f, and t/f style conditionals :)
12:29:35 <Raystm2> tryed the @echo off but let me try it again.
12:30:17 <Raystm2> ya, you are correct, cls not needed now.
12:30:50 <Raystm2> thanks for conditionals :)
12:43:21 <Raystm2> please, how does one access the stack pointer for creating a 'depth' def?
12:49:50 <virl> crc, how exactly does netclient.f work?
12:52:39 * Raystm2 looking into rx docs for the stack pointer.
12:56:54 <Raystm2> and doesn't find it.
13:03:21 <crc> virl: it is a thin set of wrappers over the socket syscalls
13:04:29 <crc> it uses poll to check the keyboard and opened socket, and you can use the provided words to read/write to the socket
13:04:42 <crc> it's just barely abstracted above the syscall level
13:05:01 <crc> Raystm2: see http://retroforth.net/board/index.php/topic,230.0.html
13:05:14 <virl> ok, with server: 123.34.50.12 I can open a server and how do I read from it?
13:06:01 <crc> net.read
13:06:09 <virl> ah, ok. sry
13:06:12 <crc> returns the next byte from the socket buffer
13:06:25 <virl> does it take any args?
13:06:37 <virl> and what's that the server: word puts on the stack?
13:06:48 <crc> no
13:07:44 <virl> and what's that number that server: puts?
13:07:51 <Raystm2> crc: are dump inspect show and see all supposed to do different things. ( for me they are either inspecting or not doing anything) 
13:08:22 <Raystm2> inspect and see are dumping and dump and show are doing nothing.
13:08:24 <crc> Raystm2: yes
13:08:28 <crc> inspect <name>
13:08:33 <crc> see <name>
13:08:36 <Raystm2> ya
13:08:40 <crc> dump takes an xt and a count
13:08:44 <crc> ' words 100 dump
13:08:45 <Raystm2> ah
13:08:52 <Raystm2> okay makes sence doh!
13:11:41 <crc> virl: add a port after the ip
13:11:49 <crc> server: 123.34.50.12 <port>
13:12:21 <Raystm2> I can't seem to call this in my working file...
13:12:36 <Raystm2> load library\debugging\retrospect -f
13:12:40 <crc> no
13:12:43 <crc> \f
13:12:54 <Raystm2> ah okay will try...
13:12:58 <crc> load library\debugging\retrospect \f
13:13:00 <crc> OR
13:13:05 <crc> -f library\debugging\retrospect
13:13:32 <Raystm2> trying second recommendation...
13:15:33 <Raystm2> second recommendation just locks up the interpreter.
13:15:45 <Raystm2> first = several not found errors.
13:15:55 <crc> hmm
13:16:10 <Raystm2> make sure i'm reporting this correctly...
13:16:52 <Raystm2> wait my fault so far....
13:18:23 <crc> it should work... I am having no problem with it :(
13:18:31 <Raystm2> -f library\debugging\retrospect
13:18:40 <virl> thanks crc
13:18:51 <crc> virl: np
13:19:28 <Raystm2> that is the first line in my file and on start of the progy that just inspects something ... trying to determine what.
13:19:43 <crc> in the file?
13:19:51 <crc> replace -f with include then
13:20:11 <Raystm2> oh okay :)
13:20:37 <virl> haha! now I think I could write a retro program for something someone wrote a python program
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13:20:53 <Raystm2> WORKS :)
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13:22:28 <Raystm2> see seems to have the same output as inspect only inspect has more detail. see is not the see that i'm used to, is it?
13:22:57 <crc> nope
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13:23:08 <crc> see is a hex dump, of the length of the word
13:23:09 <Raystm2> okay /me is fine with that.
13:23:35 <crc> it's a pain to decompile subroutine threaded code with any optimizations (like retro)
13:24:35 <Raystm2> i don't have see in colorforth, I think I will manage :)
13:25:16 <Raystm2> dump should be fine.
13:30:09 <Raystm2> is the stack pointer visible anywhere? /me needs to create a depth word?
13:35:59 <Raystm2> doh! /me finds the referance that you left me, thanks
13:40:10 <Raystm2> cool 'depth' becomes sp@ @ 
13:42:59 <virl> interesting, when I couple netclient and my xbinds and create a word which reads a number from a ip:port and prints it with 'text' then the second time I use that word it produces an 'invalid opcode' error
13:43:12 <Raystm2> wait no it doesn't .
13:44:18 <Raystm2> I should set a variable from the return of sp@ at the start of the program and then calculate the distance from that address when calling depth.
13:46:51 <crc> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=18
13:47:12 * crc is going to eat, bbl
13:47:40 <crc> (virl, pastebin the problematic code, and I'll take a look when I get back)
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14:15:27 * Raystm2 needs to hide the words e and f to make the base 18 work. 
14:26:03 <Raystm2> oh and d as well.
14:30:37 <Raystm2> okay that's done.
14:37:59 <nighty> we lost
14:38:03 <nighty> bummer!
14:40:01 <Raystm2> Oh France lost?!?
14:40:40 * Raystm2 hungry
14:40:49 * Raystm2 raids kitchen.
14:40:59 <nighty> Raystm2: yes
14:41:04 <nighty> Raystm2: penalty kicks
14:41:14 <nighty> Raystm2: and zidane went bezerk
14:41:45 --- quit: Icefall (";-)")
15:01:25 * Raystm2 goes to espn.com to look for highlights
15:02:53 <docl> I bet it was an awesome game.
15:08:47 * Raystm2 sorry he missed it. :(
15:09:44 <Raystm2> I can't believe the French captain head butting the chest of an opponant for the Red card. What is wrong with that thinking?
15:30:28 <crc> Raystm2: how is it going?
15:59:58 <Raystm2> hi crc: going well, 
16:00:15 <Raystm2> I've got all of the variables constants buffers and arrays in, 
16:00:35 <Raystm2> i'm about to work out how to write and read the save-game file.
16:00:48 <Raystm2> As you may or may not know...
16:01:21 <Raystm2> the persistance is handled by writeing out a save-game file with every move.
16:01:27 <Raystm2> two players share this file.
16:02:32 <Raystm2> when the command s ( for show, save, send, or start) is called the save-game file is read in and the board executes every move.
16:04:29 --- quit: docl ("leaving")
16:04:44 <Raystm2> I had to redefine 3 retroforth words: d e and f to turn them into board numbers with the : b-18 18 base ! ;  word.
16:05:46 <Raystm2> I take it that the word value in other forths is variable: in retroforth?
16:06:41 <virl> crc: http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=19
16:07:08 <Raystm2> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=20
16:08:25 * Raystm2 notices in my paste that the backslash is not handled properly in the paste.
16:08:53 <Raystm2> ooh virl, I can't wait to add your server stuff to the chess :)
16:09:38 <virl> my server stuff? that's crcs server stuff
16:10:52 <Raystm2> cool.
16:11:06 <virl> you know: netclient.f
16:12:20 <Raystm2> I see. 
16:12:34 <Raystm2> thanks, i'm not aware of that netclient yet.
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16:18:55 <Raystm2> hi docl. :)
16:21:56 <docl> hi Raystm2 
16:23:47 <Raystm2> Supper. :)
16:24:27 * Raystm2 is eating spagetti  and codeing RetroChessB18Board. 
16:24:40 <docl> :)
16:25:07 * docl is experimenting with screen, a linux console manager
16:26:06 <Raystm2> docl: do you know the way that retro opens/reads/writes files?
16:26:12 <docl> somewhat
16:26:44 <docl> load <filename> I know
16:26:59 <docl> new blanks out the edit buffer
16:27:20 <docl> what do you need to know?
16:28:32 <Raystm2> http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=21 this is how gforth/win32forth does it.
16:28:45 <Raystm2> I suppose i'm looking for something similar.
16:33:02 <docl> to load a file from a string, ' "filename " choose reload '
16:35:16 <docl> at least that works in linux. the windows code looks similar
16:36:10 <docl> another alternative is use the { } words
16:36:18 <docl> { load save-game }
16:37:20 <docl> to put the data from a string into the file, you can use the move command
16:37:44 <docl> mystring 0 block swap move
16:38:16 <docl> '0 block' goes to the beginning of the file currently in the block editor
16:39:18 <docl> mystring would be a counted string pair (addr count)
16:41:55 <Raystm2> okay, hmm.
16:42:23 <Raystm2> I won't be using the editor, all of this save-file reading and writeing will be happening programmatically.
16:42:46 <Raystm2> but let me experiment with what you have told me :)
16:43:14 <docl> the editor is really built into the fabric, at least the way I see it :)
16:43:59 <docl> you can see the first block with 'v' at any time
16:44:47 <Raystm2> that will mostlikely show me the file that is the program and not the save-file.
16:45:47 <docl> it's kind of neat that in the editor you're seeing an actual block of memory, in ascii form
16:45:48 <Raystm2> i'm loading in a file that is adds an extention to the interpreter to parse a save-file that has chess algebra stored as data in english. 
16:47:01 <Raystm2> the result is that the parsed data will move the pieces on the board and then display two boards, current and last moves and a list of all of the last twenty moves made on the baord.
16:48:03 <Raystm2> that is cool.
16:48:29 <Raystm2> I've seen that when I called edit while my progy file was loaded.
16:48:32 <Raystm2> pretty neat.
16:50:36 <docl> the thing is once you have run the program, you don't need it loaded in the editor block any more
16:50:54 <Raystm2> right, i'm not going to be using edit at all.
16:51:22 <docl> the editor block is the only way I know how to load files though
16:51:31 <Raystm2> oh okay.
16:51:40 <docl> load/save, etc.
16:51:53 <Raystm2> save hmm...
16:52:04 <Raystm2> where do I find these words documented.
16:52:20 <docl> in the source code :)
16:52:32 <docl> also I think there's some docs
16:52:43 <Raystm2> okay that's my problem, I don't have rf-windows source
16:54:35 <docl> http://retroforth.net/doc/handbook/rx/
16:55:13 <docl> hmm, there's no editor docs in there
16:55:16 <Raystm2> okay /me looking at rf-generic and has found the libc stuff.
16:56:16 <docl> http://retroforth.net/wiki/?id=editorReference
16:56:27 <Raystm2> use looks like one of the words I need.
16:56:46 <docl> use is part of the load word
16:58:37 <docl> ok, "there" is the same as "0 block"
16:58:47 <docl> so use it instead :)
16:59:05 <Raystm2> ya looks like i  need to ' use save-game.txt' and then hmmm...
16:59:58 <Raystm2> i'm gonna wanna put that info into a line-buffer and back out to the save-game.txt.
17:00:10 <Raystm2> for persistance. 
17:00:30 <docl> ' load save-game.txt' might be just as well
17:00:33 <Raystm2> but see, that's for block files, and I just need file laoding.
17:00:37 <Raystm2> loading even
17:00:38 <Raystm2> ya.
17:01:01 <docl> but to put that inside a function will need curly braces, because load is a parsing word (so is use)
17:01:24 <Raystm2> thanks, that will help.
17:01:29 <docl> loading is loading :P
17:01:30 * Raystm2 = confused. :)
17:02:23 <docl> load will put it in memory where you can get at it (starting at 'there' = '0 block')
17:03:02 <docl> save will save any info from that memory block to the filename that was loaded
17:03:32 <docl> (choose is what selects this filename, and use calls choose.)
17:05:37 <docl> these "editor" functions are just simplified syscalls, the edit command is just a fancy ui loop
17:06:14 <Raystm2> I won't be using the editor tho.
17:06:34 <Raystm2> i'll be doing this programatically.
17:07:26 <docl> load and save just deal with a block of memory, which the editor happens to use when it is run
17:07:53 <Raystm2> oh wait then i'm not going to beable to do this. :(
17:08:08 <docl> there 512 <-- a string of bytes
17:08:12 <docl> why not?
17:08:17 <Raystm2> I need more then a block just to add the program in .
17:08:43 <docl> you can access the file after the program is loaded
17:08:53 <Raystm2> the program file is much bigger then 512 bytes
17:09:11 <docl> that's fine
17:09:16 <docl> there's multiple blocks
17:11:22 <docl> read the source of http://retroforth.org/contrib/files/mf.f
17:12:56 <docl> note how it has a load command embedded into one of the functions. this isn't executed until a time where all the words of the program are compiled into memory.
17:13:03 <Raystm2> thanks :)
17:29:30 <Raystm2> that's a cool progy.
17:29:49 <Raystm2> I like the way that it's all included in the same file.
17:30:11 <docl> yeah, the created file is intended to be extended
17:30:44 <Raystm2> by inserting with i ?
17:30:52 <docl> yeah
17:30:57 <Raystm2> you just do something like : 
17:31:12 <docl> you can load aff.b and use the editor
17:31:29 <Raystm2> oh you do have to load the editor then?
17:31:34 <Raystm2> okay.
17:31:57 <docl> you only run 'example' the first time, after that it reuses the file that was created
17:32:00 <Raystm2> well raymond of course how else are you going to use editer commands.
17:32:19 <Raystm2> ya. I see that and that's cool.
17:32:21 <docl> actually there is an alternative that I wrote last week :)
17:32:24 <Raystm2> I like that part.
17:32:25 <docl> bdump
17:32:35 <Raystm2> is there a paste?
17:32:47 <Raystm2> b = bytes?
17:32:54 <Raystm2> binary?
17:33:10 <docl> blockfile dump
17:33:16 <Raystm2> ah.
17:33:30 <docl> it takes a number of blocks as an argument
17:34:25 <docl> crc: bdump goes into an infinite loop without an argument, perhaps 0; would stop this.
17:34:52 <docl> 2 bdump shows 2 screens of blockfile, in a pastable form
17:35:12 <docl> you can use i, d, etc. without running edit
17:38:30 <docl> whups, missed your question. bdump is currently in retro 9.2 by default
17:40:16 <docl> see modules/edit-ext
17:40:44 <crc> docl: the infinite loop problem is fixed with the latest patch
17:41:01 <docl> cool, I'll get it :)
17:50:21 <crc> virl: try this: http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=22
17:51:05 <crc> Raystm2: use constants for d, e, and so on; they will be more efficient when compiled
17:59:35 <Raystm2> :) okay
17:59:58 * Raystm2 is just floored reading rf-generic.
18:02:58 * Raystm2 just loves this " here is xt-name ]  other words that define the function ; " aliases.
18:05:54 <docl> yeah that's awesome :)
18:16:54 * Raystm2 makes recommend changes to constants per crc.
18:33:37 <Raystm2> okay I think i'm begining to see the way use load save choose work.
18:34:29 <Raystm2> do I set-perm in windows?
18:36:45 <Raystm2> choose limits the filename to 256 chars
18:37:14 <Raystm2> but it moves the new file name into fname
18:39:01 <Raystm2> I see how reload works. and I see how save works. 
18:39:19 <Raystm2> and now I know how load works. okay
18:40:44 <Raystm2> oh but I don't know where read puts the file read in.
18:42:47 <docl> generic or windows?
18:44:38 <Raystm2> I'll be on windows, but I don't see where generic puts the read-in file.
18:45:43 <docl> I think it's in the read-contents word
18:46:09 <docl> (read-mode in the windows port)
18:46:27 <docl> it places the read-in file at a location called "there"
18:46:37 * Raystm2 wonders where to see that source for windows port.
18:46:53 <docl> this is a value stored at the variable b0, btw
18:47:11 <Raystm2> OH block 0.
18:47:15 <docl> similar to how "here" is stored at h0
18:47:17 <docl> yeah
18:47:23 <Raystm2> doh! :)
18:47:35 <Raystm2> slap me with an obvious fish! :)
18:48:22 <Raystm2> so I can load the file and then just offset to the distance of each consecutive datum as I parse them?
18:48:33 <docl> as to the windows code, do you have the darcs repo of 902?
18:48:54 <docl> yeah, that's how it goes
18:48:58 <Raystm2> Darcs 1.0.8 failed to retrieve.
18:49:20 <docl> I actually had one program where I changed the value of b0 temporarily
18:49:21 <Raystm2> failed to get that is .
18:49:26 <docl> darn
18:50:07 <docl> you tried "darcs get http://retroforth.org/repos/902" ?
18:50:20 <Raystm2> I shall try again. 
18:50:40 <docl> alternatively, point your browser to http://retroforth.org/repos/902/
18:55:54 <Raystm2> failed to download the inventory.
18:56:24 <Raystm2> libcurl: HTTP error (404?)
19:07:53 <Raystm2> I assume there is something wrong with the inventories file in the repo, or that my version of darcs can't handle getting the inventory or I don't know really. 
19:08:14 <Raystm2> oh ya the browser :)
19:23:35 <Raystm2> okay looks like include is my answer. this gives me the data at an offset from b0.
19:24:21 * Raystm2 tries this.
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19:33:49 <Raystm2> oh man this may work better in retroforth then I ever imagined.
19:34:58 <crc> good :)
19:35:53 <Raystm2> include does something sweet with my savegame file.
19:36:11 <Raystm2> include save-game.txt and all of the datum are on the stack.
19:36:16 <Raystm2> sweet.
19:37:16 <Raystm2> I think i can eliminate my old line-buffer and just translate the moves into the execution-buffer directly from the stack.
19:47:36 <Raystm2> but how to save them back to the save-game.txt
19:49:21 <Raystm2> whoa conflict. :)
19:49:58 <Raystm2> cool tho. I loaded the save-game.txt and then I saved and my save-game.txt was save but also included the program file right with it.
19:57:26 <crc> when you 'include' a file, it does a temporary relocate of b0 ("there"), this can have interesting side effects....
19:59:20 <Raystm2> can I clear the editor before loading the save-game.txt file?
20:00:01 <crc> yes
20:00:03 <crc> 'new'
20:00:10 <crc> should do it
20:00:14 <Raystm2> okay thanks /me tries this.
20:06:31 * docl didn't realise that about include, that's cool
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20:07:36 <Raystm2> okay thats working.
20:08:11 <Raystm2> I get the moves from save-game.txt into the editor block by itself. 
20:08:21 <Raystm2> Now to just edit this block from the program.
20:08:28 <Raystm2> then save back.
20:09:01 <Raystm2> looks like part of the game loop will do this regularly.
20:12:46 <Raystm2> whoa I can vector into eval and treat the block file as the execution-buffer, eliminating another array in my old design. 
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