00:00:00 --- log: started retro/06.07.02 01:53:04 --- join: crcx (n=crcx@89.106.32.2) joined #retro 01:53:12 --- quit: crcx (Remote closed the connection) 04:49:22 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #retro 06:44:06 good morning 06:47:15 docl: I am doing some work on a new rdml for the next handbook 06:48:12 bah, PoppaVic, using libm for floating point, hell that's something which can be solved cleaner with implementing it in Forth. 06:49:21 why the foo thinks he needs libm for that? C can also do floating point stuff at it's own. 06:50:52 PoppaVic want to be "portable" for everything 06:53:45 the only portable things of which I know are fopen, fclose, etc. , malloc and free and then most of things are getting non-portable. I don't know if libmath is supposed to be portable. 06:54:14 well, I should read the docs about those libs .. 07:01:04 crc: nice 07:02:59 I'm starting fresh, using a text copy of the 9.1 Rx Handbook as a test case 07:03:10 so it should be a better solution this time around (I hope) 07:05:31 http://retroforth.org/book.html 07:05:36 http://retroforth.org/rdml.forth 07:05:42 http://retroforth.org/RxBook.text 07:06:03 I'll customize the look with CSS once the rest is done 07:37:41 * crc has just uploaded the latest files; now covering the main topics, but not the appendixes yet 08:23:27 now I have a stylesheet, so it's more readable :) 08:57:10 the first draft is now complete :) 08:57:20 much work remains though.... 10:06:38 * crc begins work on rdml->txt 10:14:23 that works now 10:23:27 http://retroforth.org/rdml.tar.gz for the current rdml, with text and html backends 10:39:19 I have a postscript version after using groff :) 10:39:38 * docl gets home from church 10:40:20 nice, I like the colors 10:45:17 cool 10:45:21 thanks :) 10:45:39 * crc didn't attend the morning services today. I don't drive and my wife is sick :( 10:48:34 with groff and ps2pdf, I can now generate almost all desired forms :) 10:53:53 * Raystm2 prays that crc's wife recovers quickly. 10:55:01 I have an uncle in his late 70's, a very competent scientist, never drove a day in his life. 10:55:40 Doesn't mind riding, just thinks that driving is the most dangerous thing you can do out side of the bathroom. 10:56:18 I dislike driving; I get distracted too easily 10:56:29 Raystm2, how about juggling with chainsaws? 10:57:17 :) 10:57:19 is that more dangerous or less than driving? 10:57:37 Less. :) 10:57:50 a juggler doesn't have to depend on other drivers. 10:58:31 aha. ok, how atom energy? atoms need to depend on each other or world explodes.. 10:58:56 atoms depend on gravity. 10:59:17 ok, well then.. 10:59:18 gravity of each other, so i guess you are right. 10:59:30 * Raystm2 concededs to virl the point. 11:00:10 oh, thanks. 11:00:21 :) 11:01:10 * Raystm2 envies people that live in areas where you don't have to depend on a vehical to get around. 11:01:25 Fort Worth grew up after the advent of the automobile, and this place is vast. 11:01:30 but then your uncle could say that an atom plant is simply a big bathroom. 11:01:36 You have to drive to get anywhere. 11:01:42 hehehe 11:03:06 or ride, how about bicycle does he think that they are also extremly dangerous? 11:03:22 and how about skateboarders or inline skaters? 11:03:27 I don't know. I must ask him in August when I get home. 11:03:56 hrhrhr 11:04:15 I'm sure that his position on unpowered human transportation devices, likes or dislikes, might be limited to the office chair on the likes side. 11:04:49 lol 11:05:16 One fact I do know about him: He has to where a beard from all of the chemical accidents he's made over a long career. 11:05:30 where = wear doh! 11:06:09 he wears a beard to protect him from chemical substances? 11:06:28 To make his face viewable to the audience. 11:06:58 the office chair needs large enough wheels to allow him free push away during explosions. 11:08:06 'heh Sam! what are you doing there? are you mixing TNT again?' lol 11:08:25 Me being an expert in casters and other mobility devices, recommends a 5 inch diameter, dual wheel caster with a nylon hub and ureathane treads, for smoothest travel. 11:08:44 hehe 11:09:10 you are the chair man 11:09:11 has anyone here played harry, the handsome executive? 11:09:37 virl yes, in a way I suppose I am, and docl no, never played. 11:09:38 which game is that one? 11:09:46 mac game where the protagonist is in an office chair the whole time 11:09:54 :) 11:10:00 he rolls around by pushing with his feet :) 11:10:11 aha... so double jump with the chair eh? 11:10:17 vaguely rogue-like, very funny 11:10:34 yeah, there's ramps he can bounce off of by going fast enough 11:10:45 :) 11:10:55 oh, that leads my creativity to spit out some crazy ideas.. 11:10:55 Ambrosia put out some really cool mac-only stuff 11:11:10 maybe you could run it with qemu or something 11:11:21 it's shareware 11:11:53 extending this game with a racing mission would be cool. 11:12:09 3, 2, 1, Roll! ;-) 11:12:39 :) 11:12:52 Escape Velocity (and it's sequel) was a really cool starship game 11:13:04 wow, that game is in 3d unbelieveable 11:13:35 http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/harry/ 11:14:08 ah, shit, only the title screen was in 3d, pah. 11:14:27 Oh we need a game for 20 dollars. 11:14:31 yeah. I think the third EV game is 3D 11:14:37 I could market a game. 11:15:08 EV game? 11:15:22 escape velocity 11:15:33 one of my big addictions as a kid 11:15:43 aha, ok. 11:17:27 I guess there's something about the mac that attracts the best graphical designers 11:17:36 a retroforth game. ChuckBot, when I first came up with it, was supposed to be a game and tutorial for colorForth. A student could use it at every level of computer science knowledge attainment. 11:17:56 docl: I think you are right about that. 11:18:18 Seems the best artists overall, choose or atleast own a Mac. 11:18:31 oh, clean hardware *dream* 11:20:47 what's the real technical problem with x86, anyway? is it a lack of optimization due to portability issues? 11:21:39 I updated the rdml.tar.gz with the prototype manpage backend 11:21:57 docl: three separate addressing models at this point 11:22:15 16-bit real mode, 32-bit protected mode, 64-bit long mode 11:22:49 none are quite compatible with the others, and you have to deal with at least 16 and 32-bit if you are an OS developer 11:23:40 docl, for me it's bloat instruction set. 11:23:42 and the instruction set beyone 386/486 is increasing in complexity rapidly 11:23:59 virl: I don't touch most of the instruction set, and nothing beyond 386 11:24:37 what use are the complex instructions then? are they faster? 11:25:04 in some cases 11:25:20 no two processors from different 'families' are the same in timing 11:25:27 I don't know, but I locate on them some problems like big processors big heat and such. 11:25:46 e.g., optimize for P4 and it'll be slower on all other x86 chips 11:26:10 virl: my 386 runs cool to the touch with no heatsink :) 11:26:53 yuck, why would they make them all have different timing? is there any advantage to this? 11:26:58 your 386 ... ehm, you mean something old 11:27:13 the designers change pipelines and internal structure 11:27:38 ahh, physical layout issues? 11:27:40 virl: old does not equal bad 11:27:44 docl: largely 11:27:51 crc, I haven't sad that. 11:28:17 * crc would love a moden 386-class cpu, it'd be very fast and still run nice and cool :) 11:28:22 *modern 11:28:29 http://retroforth.org/NewRxBook.pdf 11:28:55 I only meant that you haven't said P4 or something like that. 11:29:08 nope 11:29:14 nice text-y look 11:29:28 beyond the slower 486's, the x86 line has needed heatsinks and/or fans 11:29:43 (which are cpus which I hate. big, hot, lot of power consuming..) 11:29:51 though the newer chips are improving on power consumption 11:30:20 crc: is this intentional? your \i tags are showing in the pdf. 11:30:29 Raystm2: no, it's a bug 11:30:37 * crc is still working on this 11:30:51 okay. 11:31:52 there's something comforting about a uniformly textual document :) 11:32:16 Raystm2: should be fixed now 11:32:42 interestingly, the .pdf is smaller than the .txt :) 11:33:17 wow, must have compressed it 11:33:47 yeah :) 11:34:17 * crc is using enscript to convert the txt to postscript, then ps2pdf to make the pdf 11:34:44 that works. nice clean monospace font. 11:35:26 monospace font? 11:35:35 monospace is good 11:35:53 * docl nods 11:36:21 aha. ok how does it look like? 11:36:24 some mono fonts are blocky and ugly, but this one works 11:37:25 http://retroforth.org/book.png 11:39:06 aha. I call that courier 11:40:00 It'll be nice to have documentation in many formats this time around :) 11:42:07 I have to run to the store to get diapers for my kids; bbiab 11:43:57 ok, see ya 12:08:57 --- quit: Cheery ("Leaving") 12:55:12 haha! now I added fullscreen to my bindings! 12:56:37 I think that I now add some drawing functions and then I simplify them :-) 12:57:09 so that it's a clean set of functions.. 14:33:07 --- join: Ochentero (n=email@200.80.238.188) joined #retro 14:33:49 --- part: Ochentero left #retro 15:00:12 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #retro 15:14:45 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-144-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #retro 15:23:22 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 15:23:31 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 15:39:28 back 15:39:37 wb 15:42:06 x11. prepare for retro! 15:42:12 yeah! 15:42:25 * crc looks forward to x11 bindings 15:43:03 fullscreen, xft text, lines, that's currently working under my hacked retro program which I showed you, next step is to bake that into something fancy :-) 15:43:10 (what I'm currently doing) 15:43:24 cool 15:44:06 bah, forth definitions which are longer than 3 lines. hell, x11 loves that. 15:44:44 so does gtk+ 15:46:06 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 15:46:23 bloat over bloat over bloat... 15:46:50 lots and lots of layers ;) 15:47:36 because we wana catch em all ... 15:51:08 ok, fullscreen works in the new fancy bindings.. 16:00:16 cool 16:03:18 --- quit: nighty (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:15:26 --- join: crcx (n=crc@pool-70-110-205-218.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #retro 16:15:45 my son unplugged the dsl modem again :( 16:28:16 the 'getretro' script is done :) 16:29:05 and the archive is updated now whenever I do a './gen' to build and upload everything 16:30:35 --- join: Ochentero (n=email@200.80.238.188) joined #retro 16:30:40 --- part: Ochentero left #retro 16:31:06 here happens a segfault without any logically reason... 16:31:15 ? 16:32:20 look: : line ( x1 y1 x2 y2 -- ) >r >r >r >r display @ window @ gc @ r> r> r> r> XDrawLine drop ; 16:32:20 : rect ( x1 y1 x2 y2 -- ) >r >r >r >r display @ window @ gc @ r> r> r> r> XFillRectangle drop ; 16:33:32 the difference of the both is that they are called different 16:33:49 I'm asking myself why the second produces a segfault. 16:33:49 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:33:54 when I call it. 16:34:19 can you post the full code please? 16:34:46 --- nick: crcx -> crc 16:34:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 17:37:00 ok.. 17:38:52 http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/WwXKxn91.html 17:43:21 how do I test it? 17:45:24 0 0 500 500 newwindow 17:45:24 window ! 17:45:24 window @ getgc 17:45:24 create fore XColor 17:45:24 -1 0 -1 fore color 17:45:24 foreground 17:45:26 0 0 200 200 line 17:45:28 flush 17:45:30 0 0 200 200 rect 17:45:49 should the last one not creating a segfault then it runs... 17:54:07 virl: this is very odd; I will look into it and see if it is a bug in retro 17:56:30 and it is 17:56:51 I will try to identify the cause and fix it soon 18:01:07 http://rafb.net/paste/results/Vvgou959.html 18:01:13 if you load this first, then do: 18:01:17 inspect line 18:01:20 inspect rect 18:01:44 note that retro is not compiling $c3 at the end for rect (as it should, since rect ends in a macro) 18:01:57 I will have to dig deeper into this 18:02:34 shit! :-| 18:09:12 hmm, your current version of generic is somehow broken I downloaded 902 because I don't have the [[ ]] words 18:10:17 well, my bash can't execute it. but it's market as executable 18:18:45 did you run the linker script? 18:19:12 cd bin; ../extras/link-generic-linux 19:27:12 sup 19:27:27 slash-me's bored. 20:05:48 virl: actually, I'm not 100% sure where the bug is 20:06:06 but it appears *after* rect is initially compiled 20:07:02 after the call to 'foreground' 20:07:26 actually, the call to 'color' 20:08:53 possibly it's an alignment issue; I will investigate 20:19:00 * crc thinks the cuplrit is in 'color': 20:19:00 http://rafb.net/paste/results/Vvgou959.html 20:19:02 err 20:19:15 >r r 8 + w! r 6 + w! r + w! 20:19:28 what is being added to the last r + ? 20:20:05 * crc adds '4' to it and it works without crashing 20:23:04 http://rafb.net/paste/results/TdMJgi55.html 20:23:08 this is the fixed version 23:02:06 :) hi all. 23:02:10 anybody up? 23:59:59 --- log: ended retro/06.07.02