00:00:00 --- log: started forth/21.05.19 00:54:44 --- quit: jess (Killed (grumble (My fellow staff so-called 'friends' are about to hand over account data to a non-staff member. If you care about your data, drop your NickServ account NOW before that happens.))) 01:27:09 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 01:30:10 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 01:50:25 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 01:52:45 --- join: jess joined #forth 02:02:58 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 02:12:48 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 02:13:08 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 02:18:50 --- quit: guan (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 02:38:13 --- join: guan joined #forth 02:44:55 --- join: f-a joined #forth 03:28:22 --- quit: f-a (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 03:35:24 --- join: f-a joined #forth 05:06:30 --- quit: jess (Changing host) 05:06:30 --- join: jess joined #forth 05:26:37 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 05:38:38 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 05:45:41 --- join: tech_exorcist joined #forth 05:47:24 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 05:50:23 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 05:59:21 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 06:06:10 --- quit: jess (Quit: so long and thanks for all the fish) 06:15:50 --- quit: mtsd (Remote host closed the connection) 06:16:13 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 06:18:36 https://www.kline.sh/ 06:18:42 we might need to leave freenode :/ 06:18:44 not sure 06:19:04 no, this is dumb 06:19:30 yea i dont know if this is going to be a probel for users 06:19:35 I mean, depends how much you do or don't trust Andrew Lee 06:19:36 depends on what happens to the network 06:19:44 dont know anything about him 06:19:45 nothing is different from what we all should have assumed was going on all along, it's just that now a bunch of the staff is having a hissy fit 06:19:53 I personally don't trust somebody who tried to do a hostile takeover to run the network wel 06:19:56 as for data mining our chitchats anyone can do that already 06:20:04 through the logs so im not worried about that here 06:20:06 it wasn't a hostile takeover. he paid for it 06:20:07 THIS is a public forum 06:20:16 I've setup a #forth on libera.chat in case freenode goes down 06:20:29 crc well done :) 06:20:43 but it all depends on what happens to the network 06:21:20 ya doesnt seem time to panic yet 06:21:22 not saying we need to abandon ship unless it sinks :) 06:21:25 what is libera.chat? 06:21:43 it's where the freenode staff are leaving to, IIRC 06:21:46 is it set up by all the freenode losers who pitched a tantrum? 06:21:47 mark4: agreed; just best to be prepared 06:21:54 then i wouldn't go there, i'd move to oftc or something 06:22:19 isn't freenode undergoing a hostile takeover? 06:22:24 no 06:22:28 oh god every channel is talking about it 06:22:31 it isn't hostile to purchase something 06:22:32 heh 06:22:49 and the purchase happened years ago and you never noticed it 06:22:59 it was a takeover - how HOSTILE it is depends on what the new owner does to the network 06:23:08 staff bailing might be a problem though 06:23:28 how often do you ever interact with freenode staff? 06:23:29 that alone might take the network down if theres not enough staff to maintain it 06:23:45 its more important to know how ofthen they interact with US lol 06:24:00 well i don't miss christel i'll say that 06:24:05 the online staff i see as a source for help and info AND protection 06:24:19 i miss lilo 06:24:23 she wasn't shy to abuse the global notice feature to pimp her US political interests 06:24:24 https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 06:24:31 I'll just wait and set up a bouncer 06:24:44 isn't christel the one they blame for the sale? 06:25:13 libera might not be a stable irc network either 06:25:32 if you're going to move, i absolutely would not move to a network founded by the morons stirring up this drama 06:25:40 heh 06:25:51 i have no immediate plans to move 06:26:01 this has been my irc home for 20 years lol 06:26:27 and if there were any corporate polatics behind the scenes over that time i saw absolutely none of it 06:26:40 i have this incredible irc client that can connect to multiple networks at once 06:27:02 also... we might see 2875629386459824 channels all jump ship and have a server less succeptable to netsplits lol 06:27:11 same here :P 06:27:26 just press control T and have a new net connection :) 06:27:53 mark4, when the whole internet was losing their shit over ajit pai reclassifying the internet under title 2 or whatever it was, christel started abusing global notices to stir up net neutrality shit 06:27:59 cmtptr: isn't the problem that the people who run the network have all resigned? idk about the new management 06:28:25 thats THE ONLY potential problem 06:28:58 oh wow, #sway has abandoned ship altogether 06:29:03 siraben, the "new management" has been the management for years and you never noticed. a few of the staff has resigned. i don't know what percentage of it, because i don't know much about how freenode is run, but i guarantee you that whatever they used to do, they can be replaced 06:29:05 its like if this channel had arguments over what forth standard we should limit the chat too and it got so bad we had to create two channels :P 06:29:14 p.s. that would be the 83 standard kthxbai 06:29:50 cmtptr: did you read the gist? 06:30:23 i read mniip's resignation letter 06:30:51 i made it one sentence into that gist and stopped reading because it's obviously written using charged language to evoke an emotional response rather than actually conveying useful information 06:31:14 god damn i hate human beings 06:31:16 it does elaborate below 06:31:27 everybody just friggen relax 06:31:27 as someone who doesn't know what's going on, I'm just reading int othis 06:31:34 into this*, so the first sentence conveys nothing 06:31:39 cmtptr, there was a charlie brown joke "I love mankind! its just people i cant stand" 06:31:39 https://www.kline.sh/ 06:32:27 "Freenode staff have stepped down. The network that runs at freenode.org/net/com should now be assumed to be under control of a malicious party." 06:32:31 siraben, ^ 06:32:54 cmtptr: i have no context to that, who even is the new party and so on 06:33:04 i wonder how much of that is histrionics 06:33:08 i'm just reading for more info atm 06:33:20 siraben, then your default position should be /skepticism/, not hysteria 06:33:45 PANIC!!!!!!!!! }:) 06:33:47 What? 06:33:57 see what happens after the dust settles 06:34:16 yes chill out here for now and move to the next thing if it ever actually ends up happening 06:34:23 cmtptr: 'course 06:34:27 i'm still bridged via matrix anyhow 06:34:28 Can someone give me a 10 second thumbnail? 06:34:31 What's going on? 06:34:43 but libera does not seem to be able to handle the influx of rats jumpig ship 06:34:53 someone bought the freenode network 06:35:02 KipIngram, freenode got sold maybe at some point in the past. staff got angry and some quit today. unclear yet if this means anything and we should go to a another network 06:35:11 the staff here are quitting and setting up a new server 06:35:26 lots of irc users seem to be going over to that new network 06:35:34 so much so that it is having problems lol 06:35:46 some channels have left en masse already 06:35:48 Ok. Well, I'll just follow whatever we all decide to do. 06:35:51 that's inconvenient 06:35:59 a fool is quick to anger 06:36:19 new management at east podunk machenery ltd does not mean everyone has to quit 06:36:47 my only problem is some of us might decide to zig while the rest decide to zag lol 06:37:16 i vote we zig if we need to. no zagging! 06:37:51 :-) 06:38:20 i wish i knew what the guy was so angry about when he quit 06:38:46 like if the guy bought freenode to get our emails so he can spam us or something i think that would be in his announcement that he was quitting 06:38:49 The thing I just saw said that when this guy bought the network he "promised to exercise no operational control." 06:38:54 its not one that quit 06:38:56 i think its MOST 06:38:59 But is now going back on that promise. 06:39:04 MrMobius, https://mniip.com/freenode.txt 06:39:10 i think most of the staff here are bailing but ok so we get new staff? 06:39:13 Asserting ownership of user data. 06:39:35 But I can't think of any "data" that I have here that's meaningful in any way. 06:39:36 this is a public forum. google data mining my emails is EVIL 06:39:45 they data mine our chitchat in here i could care less 06:40:01 i know mniip, and his is written with more useful information and less chicken little 06:40:11 Right - this is more or less the "neighborhood bar" that I drop in at on the way home from work. 06:40:21 heh 06:40:31 at least you dont drop into it on the way TO work :) 06:40:39 Heh heh. 06:40:41 i have a dentists appointment coming up in 20 minutes 06:41:04 clearly IRL takes priority over net drama :P 06:41:07 shit might hit the fan here. the network might have some problems due to lack of adminstration on hand 06:41:23 and from there it might go down perm or come back strong with new staff 06:41:34 how hard can it possibly be to keep freenode running, seriously 06:41:37 its a non event so far... just someething to be aware of 06:42:13 cmtptr, staff here are pretty much all volunteers not paid staff 06:42:32 cmtptr, looks like a pissed off 9th grader wrote that 06:42:37 this seems like a lot of nothing 06:42:42 it is a lot of nothing 06:42:52 you lose all of those and get nobody else stepping up to the plate and things can happen... not sure what but... THINGZ! 06:43:10 mark4, mniip's letter suggests that they already have replacements lined up 06:43:13 well behind the scenes it might be a huge deal. here in this channel meh 06:43:31 good ones or bad ones? :) 06:43:32 lol 06:43:39 ya "staff" is kind of a funny exaggeration 06:43:54 hall monitors :) 06:44:12 assistant to the regional manager 06:44:20 --- quit: cantstanya (Remote host closed the connection) 06:44:20 who cares? as long as they're not using the network to spam me with their dumbass ill-informed politics like christel did, i don't care 06:44:47 that letter says that Andrew Lee bought other IRC networks. anyone know what terrible thing happened to those? 06:45:00 thats a great question :) 06:46:42 --- join: cantstanya joined #forth 06:47:51 dentist time 06:54:11 --- quit: f-a (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:56:18 --- join: f-a joined #forth 06:56:29 must be that time of the year. my appointment was on monday 07:09:03 --- quit: f-a (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 07:11:09 --- join: f-a joined #forth 07:21:55 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 07:25:31 cmtptr: I don't think it's going to get better 07:26:14 I see a few people over on #forth over there o/ 07:27:04 So this is mostly just going to be about us deciding "continue here" vs. switch to a different server? 07:27:26 KipIngram: the domain has also changed hands 07:27:33 so there's essentially no continuity 07:28:11 KipIngram: and the new management is definitely hostile 07:28:12 siraben: do you think there is a way out without a split? 07:28:18 what is #haskell-* deciding to do? 07:28:49 f-a: I have no idea, hmm 07:28:56 Hostile in what way? 07:28:59 I'm trying to get a ZNC bouncer set up before I head to bed, seems like the only viable option rn 07:29:08 hehe 07:29:09 Just meaning that they don't want us here? 07:35:00 siraben, bye then 07:35:12 sorry your isp can only connect to one server at a time 07:35:19 well, I'll still be here while the bridge is up 07:36:57 i'll say it once more: if you think the answer is to leave freenode and go to a different network, why in god's name would you go to a new network founded by the same people who fucked up freenode? 07:37:06 KipIngram: see https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 now expanded with more letters from staff 07:37:32 this is why democracy is a terrible thing 07:37:48 --- quit: f-a (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:37:59 lol, not sure how that is related to this 07:38:42 because the mob is retarded 07:39:53 how is this "malicious?" 07:40:15 --- join: f-a joined #forth 07:40:28 and what is this "Safety of information" business? who in the heck is storing information safely on IRC??? 07:40:38 What are worried will actually HAPPEN, here in the channel? 07:41:04 What are "we" ... 07:41:17 nothing, it's siraben being hysterical because of some drama queens 07:41:40 i guess the worry is that the channel will no longer function somehow 07:42:00 like if freenode wasnt reliable any more 07:42:22 the real danger is i think that people panic and half of them leave for something else so we dont have everyone in the same place 07:42:23 That seems like it will either happen or it won't - we can figure that out when the time comes, right? 07:42:27 KipIngram: perhaps not here, but for bigger channels, it's necessary to have connections with staff for abuse control 07:42:29 while freenode continues to function as always 07:43:22 oh noes we lost f-a 07:43:25 we'll see heh 07:43:41 you regained f-a 07:43:50 (+10 exp) 07:44:03 also siraben is a pretty level person 07:44:22 I hope things can get better tho I doubt it 07:44:26 yes to be fair people are losing their shit in a lot of channels not just siraben 07:44:39 I'll just ride it out, but there's not really a guarantee things will continue working 07:44:41 if even ½ of what has been written is true, jumping ship will be unavoidable 07:45:01 yeah waiting a week or so to listen to all the party is improtant 07:45:02 f-a: thanks heh 07:45:21 f-a, can you please clue me in as to which half is cause for jump? 07:46:07 f-a: let's see how new hands with no former staff go in running one of the largest IRC networks :P 07:47:09 cmtptr: freenode has always been a beacon for OSS, and its allure was that it is community based, hence project flocked here even in an official form 07:47:40 now we learn that there is some sort of takeover and that previous staff, who served us well with promptness and kindness, is being ousted out 07:48:26 no, what you learned is that staff who was complicit with a purchase four years ago is suddenly today describing it as a "takeover" 07:49:31 the times where I interacted with them they were always professional and useful 07:49:46 but I will restate "yeah waiting a week or so to listen to all the party is improtant" ← 07:49:50 cmtptr: the former head of staff (christel) had no right in selling it 07:50:01 and now the other staff are being bombarded with no legal option 07:50:10 so christel broke the law? 07:50:30 who is saying that 07:50:33 you did 07:50:43 siraben> cmtptr: the former head of staff (christel) had no right in selling it 07:51:19 i'm just going to link to the sources than re-interpret them; see https://www.kline.sh/ 07:52:00 can you point me to the part where it says she had no right? 07:52:00 f-a: right 07:52:27 cmtptr: sure, that's a direct quote from https://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_461 07:52:27 also it seems very likely at least some staffers are threatened with legal action 07:52:37 so they cannot be overt with what they are saying 07:52:50 I am sure they will come up with a proper statement once they talk with a lawyer 07:53:45 siraben, and that source does not look to be level-headed, objective, or reliable 07:54:15 nor do i see the quote there 07:54:38 the word "right" does not appear on that page 07:54:47 I'm confused what you're getting at 07:54:51 let's just wait it out 07:55:00 "to this person even if it was not hers to sell" 07:55:04 statement is very level headed 07:55:13 you might mean: it is primary source 07:55:15 yup 07:55:22 they are relaying their piece of the story 07:55:33 "has been taken over by a narcissistic Trumpian wannabe korean royalty bitcoins millionaire." does not convey level-headedness 07:55:38 let us wait a few days/weeks, but from what I have seen things are not cool 07:56:02 I will give you that 07:56:25 siraben, what i'm getting at is that you're buying into hyperbolic language by emotionally vested parties and you're taking it as fact 07:57:03 cmtptr: initially I was not swayed at all but enough discussion with people in other communities did set things straight 07:57:29 this all would have been premature when the resignation letters got leaked last week, IIRC 07:57:59 yup 07:58:01 it is a bit of a mess 07:59:29 okay let me put it this way 07:59:33 https://gist.github.com/shadowcat-mst/998cea12794768bdb3da2daeff31baad I am not sure someone has posted this 07:59:59 remember when freenode had a wave of spam bots that would join channels and advertise everyone to go join another network? 08:00:05 yes 08:00:08 those were fun days 08:00:24 i see this is effectively the same thing, only this time perpetrated by some disgruntled volunteers 08:00:36 don't give these idiots any credit 08:00:40 cmtptr: who is being iperbolic now :P 08:00:54 tell me how it's different 08:01:00 some spambots posting high quality penis ASCII art vs. volounteer staff :P 08:01:16 i didn't say ascii penis, i said advertising another network 08:01:24 cmtptr: are you even reading these letters 08:01:29 it was intermingled 08:01:51 siraben, as i've mentioned several times, i tend to stop reading the ones once they invoke words like "trumpian" 08:02:05 cmtptr: I feel we are arguing despite advocating the same course of action (wait a fortnight) 08:02:19 cmtptr: there are other sources as well that are written less emotionally by \_first parties\_ 08:02:22 but having interacted with freenode staff, I found them mostly reasonable 08:02:49 f-a: yeah, i'm going to pause discussion on this for now and wait 08:03:07 that + volounteering makes me /attentive/ to their reasons 08:03:13 f-a, i'm still arguing because i feel like i've made a point a couple of times now which has gone unnoticed: /under no circumstances will the correct answer be to move to libre.chat./ 08:03:29 yeah siraben is right, I do not want to spam #forth 08:04:08 maybe not for you or for other people, if I decide (in a few weeks) that freenode is becoming another Discord, I will personally say sayonara 08:04:28 f-a, and you missed the point now for a third time 08:04:32 not then, time to fetch a book on Set theory and another one on Type theory 08:04:42 cmtptr: then please be assertive :P 08:04:49 libre.chat is not the only alternative irc network 08:05:20 f-a: ooh, what are those books called? 08:05:45 --- quit: spal (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in) 08:05:54 I have not extensive knowledge cmtptr , but my choice would be for a network wich is: community based and funded by sponsors (≃ freenode) 08:06:23 siraben: one is printed by Lulu 08:06:30 (I hope it is a good service… 08:06:43 Homotopy Type Theory, I just found I hate reading stuff on an ebook reader 08:06:45 even books I love 08:07:09 f-a, most projects that aren't on freenode are on oftc 08:07:42 I wouldn’t argue with that, I know debian and friends are there, I know some *very* popular stuff is here 08:07:45 ooh HoTT, I've been meaning to make more progress on that, I actually participate in a weekly reading group for that book but we've been derailed in recent weeks on theorem provers like Coq and Agda, mostly for context, which is fine 08:07:46 like 08:07:48 uhh 08:07:50 #haskell 2,2we are not really popular 08:07:54 second book in on set theory siraben 08:08:13 I am still a bit saddened by Vitali set stuff 08:08:28 siraben: learning by doing is superfine I feel 08:08:36 and once I get the new lappy I will start it too I feel 08:08:43 after type theory, do you really want to look into classical set theory? 😂 08:08:53 f-a, then why would you ever want to move to libre.chat instead of oftc? (honest question, i don't know much about oftc) 08:08:55 Oh, what about Vitali sets, that you can't assign a measure to all subsets of R? 08:09:03 (btw maybe this is OT for #forth heh) 08:09:05 yes, siraben 08:09:17 cmtptr: it's libera* 08:09:22 that weird one which has µ(0) desipte covering [0,1] 08:09:39 siraben, what does that mean in this context? 08:09:50 cmtptr: I have not decided, but I would move where my other channels move 08:10:01 cmtptr: it's the name of the new network 08:10:07 unless libre.chat is something else I'm not aware of 08:10:13 f-a, of course, but i would want to convince others in order to help convince channel owners 08:10:23 so #haskell #haskell-it #vabal #freegamer #librejam #esperanto #intfiction etc. 08:10:53 I also see some potential of using Matrix (which I have never used, so I cannot judge) 08:11:05 I am not pledging to move to any specific server 08:11:14 siraben, oh you were correcting my spelling. thanks 08:11:18 siraben: that is my other interest in TT 08:11:24 constructivism seems fine 08:11:44 In probability theory — which I know slightly better — interpretations are aplenty and I have done my research 08:11:47 settling on logicism 08:11:59 so I need to make up my mind on other stuff too :P 08:12:21 f-a: I think we should move the math conversation off-channel, just to not clutter here 08:12:36 --- quit: tech_exorcist (Quit: tech_exorcist) 08:12:39 super 08:12:42 to be honest 08:13:00 sometimes #forth can get quite OT (and I like it because despite tangent, they are always related and interesting discussions) 08:14:03 I suppose that's true heh, can be a fun mix of super applied electronics and the most abstract things you'll see :P 08:17:22 one day I learned almost all I know about low level electronics by listening to proteus-guy 08:17:26 in any case, library time, laters 08:26:18 --- quit: lispmacs (Remote host closed the connection) 08:26:55 --- join: lispmacs joined #forth 08:28:18 --- quit: lispmacs (Remote host closed the connection) 08:28:29 --- join: lispmacs joined #forth 08:36:36 Electronics is fun. 08:36:58 hi, can somebody invite me to the #forth channel on the other network? I just get kicked 08:37:13 I haven't gone over there yet. 08:37:20 Are we already over there? 08:37:53 I wonder if my client will connect to both at once... 08:38:07 Would it be /connect chat.libera.net? 08:38:15 I got into ##forth but not #forth 08:38:32 #forth is a redirect to ##forth 08:39:33 oh, okay, great 08:40:27 I'm using Emacs Rcirc and it is pretty easy to add another netwok to your Rcirc Server Alist 08:40:53 I mean, netwokky 08:41:26 * crc has ownership of both #forth andthere, so can set this up however seems best if needed 08:41:32 and ##forth 08:41:37 Well, I think I'm in libera ##forth now. 08:55:31 i dont think its time to jump ship yet is it? 08:56:27 no, but shit like this creates a land rush which forces channel owners to stake their claims before someone else does 08:57:36 this whole thing is an incredibly unprofessional mess and all the more reason to go anywhere but libera.chat. i see #forth over at oftc is already registered by somebody, but it's empty. i'll bet their staff would work with you to transfer ownership over there 08:58:59 --- quit: nitrix (Quit: To Libera.) 09:01:21 cmtptr: #forth currently redirects to ##forth; I registered both of those this morning 09:02:05 sorry, missed the oftc mention 09:09:35 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:17:42 --- join: kiedtl joined #forth 09:45:50 --- quit: TangentDelta (Quit: leaving) 09:47:36 --- part: kiedtl left #forth 09:50:29 --- quit: f-a (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:53:07 --- join: f-a joined #forth 10:02:09 will there be a bridge-bot between that place and here? 10:03:44 Zarutian_HTC: I'll be looking into that 10:51:37 --- quit: joe9 (Quit: joe9) 10:59:31 --- join: joe9 joined #forth 11:09:16 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11:31:21 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 12:15:30 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:28:34 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 13:20:11 --- quit: rpcope (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:21:07 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:27:06 --- join: rpcope joined #forth 13:30:38 --- join: dys joined #forth 13:46:14 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:52:14 --- quit: f-a (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:52:45 --- join: f-a joined #forth 13:55:05 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:09:05 --- quit: proteanthread (Quit: Leaving.) 14:09:06 --- quit: rtdos (Quit: Leaving.) 14:10:50 --- join: proteanthread joined #forth 14:10:55 --- join: rtdos joined #forth 14:52:30 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 14:53:10 maw 14:56:54 Hey dave0 14:57:07 hey KipIngram 14:57:59 apparently there's been a takeover of freenode and the staff have resigned and the new place is irc.libera.chat 14:58:10 hmm 14:58:16 but i only got one source on that 14:58:25 lets see what other channels say 14:58:43 I know - a bunch of us are over there already. 14:58:56 ah good good confirmation 14:58:58 I have them in consecutive weechat buffers. 14:59:00 okay i'm on my way! 14:59:08 This gist contains a ton of links if you missed it https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 14:59:16 It's ##forth over there, for some reason. 14:59:26 I'm just not horribly interested, but thanks. 14:59:56 yeah it's irc politics... snafu 15:00:09 --- part: f-a left #forth 15:05:51 there hasn't been a "takeover" 15:06:19 there was a purchase four years ago, and there's been some management changes and some of the staff got their panties in a wad about it 15:10:50 Meanwhile, no one's really told me clearly what "bad thing" may be about to happen if we don't depart. 15:11:29 hE hAs AcCeSs To YoUr MeTaDaTa NoW !!!!!! 15:15:29 All of the staff resigned, and likely over the next few weeks all or most of the servers will probably be taken down, as they are donated and not owned by PIA 15:15:41 cmtptr: that doesn't seem to be the case at all 15:19:42 what doesn't? 15:26:33 See above link 15:26:58 i've seen the links and the letters of angsty teens raging about the man keeping them down 15:27:17 you're reading one person's emotionally charged opinion 15:27:18 Right 15:27:27 one side's, i should say 15:27:29 No, I read multiple resignation letters from the staff 15:27:42 Ok 15:27:48 Good luck! 15:27:50 --- part: xybre left #forth 15:28:30 don't let the door hit you on the way out, i guess 15:29:13 :/ 15:29:53 if the new owner of freenode can datamine this sentence and make a buck he is a better man than i am 15:30:45 --- join: hlavaty joined #forth 15:31:23 --- part: hlavaty left #forth 15:39:32 ha 15:41:52 aaahhh i knew i recognized the name tomaw from somewhere 15:42:20 he is staff and committee chair at oftc 15:42:45 that's funny... 15:46:36 cmtptr: That's pretty much how I feel about it too. 15:48:07 now that i've made the connection that at least one of the incoming team is also staff at oftc, i'm more convinced that this whole thing is just a load of inflammatory drama 16:28:03 --- part: dave0 left #forth 16:29:11 --- join: Rakko joined #forth 16:29:39 --- quit: phadthai (Quit: brb) 17:21:00 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 17:28:17 --- quit: Rakko (Quit: Leaving) 17:32:15 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17:42:20 --- nick: dsmcfarl -> danmc 17:42:37 --- nick: danmc -> dsmcfarl 17:44:59 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 18:12:02 don't let the door hit you on the way out, i guess < to hell with you, you libertard 18:16:23 what did i do? 18:18:44 you're thinking about this in terms of legal rights and like, and it's unclear whether this was even within the rights of the person who sold it 18:19:57 and it's also the specific phrasing you used there 18:20:06 * tabemann hates that phrase 18:20:14 sounds like a personal problem 18:21:35 to me at least it's irrelevant whether the supposed owner had the right to sell it or not; the thing is that its being sold is unacceptable, and the proper reaction is to abandon freenode en masse 18:22:04 which is what the mods already have done 18:22:10 it was sold four years ago 18:22:27 so what, the change of management is unacceptablee 18:22:31 why? 18:22:38 why? 18:23:00 i dont think management ever came in here and gave anyone directions 18:23:24 yeah, as long as the service continues to work, i really don't give a shit who's running it 18:25:11 just because it was sold four years ago is irrelevant 18:25:20 you mentioned that 18:25:34 the thing is that it was sold in secret, and now they've foisted new management on everyone based on said secret ownership 18:25:56 when are you getting to the part why i should care 18:26:53 you really care a lot when it's suggested that one might have to pay a cent of tax to fund public services, yet you don't give a shit when the biggest FOSS IRC network undergoes a hostile takeover 18:26:55 That's what I'm still trying to understand here. What are we worried is going to happen? 18:27:41 again, there is nothing hostile about a purchase 18:27:53 I mean, are we worried we'll be censored? Are we worried they'll try to charge a fee? Are we worried they' push advertising on us? 18:27:55 Etc. 18:28:06 - Those hosting the servers may not continue to do so under the new management 18:28:37 ^ 18:28:44 seems like it's still working so far 18:28:48 - Andrew lee wants to bring VNC money, cash prizes for gaming, and extend irc into video chat and such 18:28:48 --- quit: spoofer (Quit: leaving) 18:28:49 the hosting is donated 18:28:56 crc: that 18:28:58 it's suspicious when one's purchasing a commons 18:29:02 yes 18:29:07 e.g. if pepsi bought a public park 18:29:11 the moderation was volunteer 18:29:13 that's a bit of a head-scratcher at least 18:29:20 and if the whole parks dept resigns over it 18:29:32 Those are my two main concerns 18:30:02 if I owned one of the servers, I'd turn it off immediately, and join it to libera.chat instead 18:30:32 because there is no way in hell I'd allow my server to be used for what Andrew Lee envisions 18:30:43 why, though? 18:31:08 is this anti asian hate crime that the news keeps telling me about? 18:31:19 what 18:31:29 I assume each person who actually controls any of the resources will make their own decision about that. And that seems like it's how it should be. 18:31:42 what does this have to do with asians (andrew lee may be asian, I donno, but that's irrelevant)? 18:31:51 i keep hearing that andrew lee is satan but nobody says why 18:32:06 andrew lee wants to monetize a commons 18:32:20 Wait a minute. 18:32:26 you think i'm going to have to pay to be on freenode? 18:33:04 - Andrew lee wants to bring VNC money, cash prizes for gaming, and extend irc into video chat and such 18:33:06 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:33:09 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:33:09 There is no commons here. Every bit of hardware involved in this is owned by someone specific. 18:33:11 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:33:16 --- join: spoofer joined #forth 18:33:22 tabemann, so you're upset that he wants to have a lottery? 18:33:37 KipIngram: those people donated servers so that there could be a commons 18:33:47 They've chosen to let their property be used for this purpose, and they're the ones that get to decide what their property will do in the future. 18:34:00 cmtptr: why would they have cash prizes unless money was going to be coming from somewhere to pay for them? 18:34:10 --- quit: spoofer (Client Quit) 18:34:17 tabemann, so i ask again: do you think i'm going to have to pay to use freenode? 18:34:26 --- join: spoofer joined #forth 18:34:40 cmtptr: probably not that simple, but it's clear they'll find some way of monetizing it 18:34:53 When these people donated these servers, I assume there was something they donated it to. 18:35:04 Some non-profit organization? Something that is actually a legal entity? 18:35:15 If so, then that entity has some influence and power here. 18:35:16 oh no! freenode might start generating a profit! HIDE THE CHILDREN 18:35:17 I don't. 18:35:20 We don't. 18:35:34 tabemann, are you on facebook or twitter? 18:35:38 KipIngram: the service is donated, but they still own the servers themselves, so they can disconnect them and attach them to some other network 18:35:42 Unless it's changed, those donating servers still own/operate the servers 18:35:59 Ok - so they've been donating the server time. 18:36:08 I'm sure they'll decide what they want to do here. 18:36:14 Indeed 18:36:32 and if they decide to stop donating, i'm sure lee can find servers to replace them 18:37:03 As long as everyone's making those choices freely, we're golden. 18:37:40 I'm just gonna park in both places, and converse when the topics are interesting. 18:37:58 the thing is I suspect servers will start disconnecting very soon, if the server owners act like the volunteer staff have 18:38:03 If I'm suddenly cut off from Freenode unless I write someone a check, well, then I'll be cut off from Freenode. 18:38:21 I'm now on hackint and libera myself 18:38:24 tabemann, agree, i hope they are more professional individuals 18:38:43 cmtptr: these are people volunteering 18:38:57 It just feels like there's some weird political angling going on here. 18:39:05 yep, and then they resigned in an incredible unprofessional fashion 18:39:08 I'm disinterested in the politics. 18:39:14 KipIngram, exactly 18:39:17 if you were volunteering for something, how would you like it when suddenly someone decides to monetize it while you don't get a cent 18:39:33 well, since i'm volunteering, i can choose to stop 18:39:36 it's different if you were a paid employee 18:40:04 i don't care that they resigned, it's the scorched earth resignation that i have a problem with 18:40:49 maybe if andrew lee cared about what all the volunteers thought this might not have happened 18:41:20 maybe he did care and disagreed 18:41:31 just because you volunteer doesn't mean you own the place 18:41:33 because he wanted to monetize it 18:41:54 again, you bring that up like monitization in itself is evil 18:42:16 no, but you have the right to leave, e.g. because someone wanted to turn your volunteer labor into profit for themselves 18:42:27 are you fucking dense? 18:42:34 we literally just covered this 18:42:38 cmtptr: no I'm not 18:42:43 i think you might be 18:43:02 21:39 < cmtptr> i don't care that they resigned, it's the scorched earth resignation that i have a problem with 18:43:51 the whole purpose of the "scorched earth resignation" is to start a new network which is not controlled by someone who wants to turn it into profit for themselves 18:44:06 which is exactly what they have done 18:44:34 which is why i equated them earlier today (before you were here) to those spammers advertising another network 18:45:07 to go from staff to spam in one day is pretty bad 18:46:11 that analogy assumes that this is like any other network-spam 18:46:14 --- quit: rtdos (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:46:14 --- quit: proteanthread (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:46:20 it is 18:46:52 some disgruntled users have decided to attack the network with advertisement for their competing network 18:47:05 why would anyone ever want to join a network run by those people? 18:47:27 you act as if freenode deserves any sympathy at this point 18:48:02 people should let people know about the new network 18:48:25 One thing I don't get here, tabemann. You seem to feel really strongly about this, so why are you still here? Why aren't you over on libera? 18:48:30 if anything, mods for channels should start new channels elsewhere, and then notify the users on the old channels that the channel has moved 18:48:32 I'm just going to be where the conversation is. 18:48:33 I am! 18:48:45 Ok, by why are you hanging out here? 18:48:56 because not everyone has moved yet 18:49:26 I figure one channel or the other will just get a critical volume sometime in the next few days / weeks. 18:49:39 tabemann, so you're here to evangelize 18:49:48 I just want to chat about Forth. I 18:50:07 ^ 18:50:37 cmtptr: I'm here because I prefer to be in Forth channels, and this one still has far more people 18:50:58 oh ok, so you're on the same page with KipIngram 18:51:26 * KipIngram doesn't care what other people choose here... 18:52:55 i won't be joining libera. i'll move to another network if the conversation does, but i'm not rewarding this kind of screaming-at-the-sky breakdown nonsense 18:54:05 plus libera's main page color scheme is offensive to me 18:54:21 It all looks the same in console... ;-) 18:54:35 yeah but now that i've seen it, i'll always know... 18:54:43 :-) 18:54:54 * crc just uses a grayscale display mode 18:57:40 hipsters 19:05:58 crc: So your monitor is all shades of gray? No colors? 19:06:16 I somehow imagine that as feeling "newspaper-ish." 19:06:36 KipIngram: unless editing photos, yes 19:07:09 It does feel newspaper-ish; I find it easier to read w/o color 19:07:36 Interesting. I may have to explore that a little. 19:08:02 crc, but how do you use colorforth?? 19:08:21 :-) 19:08:30 cmtptr: I don't 19:09:12 gap 19:09:14 gasp 19:09:37 i'm off for the night, keep freenode breathing until i get back 19:10:04 Good night 19:10:17 Laters. 19:18:33 --- quit: sts-q (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:34:34 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 20:05:49 --- join: Zarutian_HTC1 joined #forth 20:05:49 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:37:58 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 20:40:52 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 20:51:57 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 20:54:44 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 21:13:17 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 21:52:18 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Remote host closed the connection) 22:38:42 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 22:40:27 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 23:48:33 --- join: wineroots joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/21.05.19