00:00:00 --- log: started forth/21.03.10 00:15:51 mark4: Would you consider releasing x64 under an MIT licence? 00:16:52 --- join: hosewiejacke joined #forth 00:17:07 I think it's a good base for an AMD64 forth if I ever fancy writing one, but the current licence is too convoluted for me, and I like my licences short like my code 00:18:56 LGPL plus your addendums is too complicated, I mean I think LGPL is too complicated/scary already. I'm not scared of it but unfortunately too many people are. 00:23:30 --- quit: andrei-n (Quit: Leaving) 00:57:25 --- join: neto joined #forth 01:47:00 --- join: m2rrorbird joined #forth 01:49:53 --- quit: mirrorbird (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 01:50:36 --- join: mirrorbird joined #forth 01:53:01 siraben, hadn't thought of that but I suppose so. :-) 01:53:04 --- quit: m2rrorbird (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 02:36:51 --- quit: jimt[m] (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM) 02:36:52 --- quit: patrickg (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM) 02:36:52 --- quit: jevinskie[m] (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM) 02:36:52 --- quit: siraben (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM) 02:39:37 --- quit: joe9 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 02:40:51 --- join: joe9 joined #forth 02:45:14 --- join: siraben joined #forth 02:57:32 --- join: jevinskie[m] joined #forth 02:57:33 --- join: jimt[m] joined #forth 02:57:33 --- join: patrickg joined #forth 02:59:01 --- join: m2rrorbird joined #forth 03:00:59 --- quit: mirrorbird (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:02:29 --- join: mirrorb2rd joined #forth 03:05:47 --- quit: m2rrorbird (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 04:01:40 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04:25:18 --- join: tech_exorcist joined #forth 04:42:37 --- join: andrei-n joined #forth 04:48:55 --- quit: tech_exorcist (Max SendQ exceeded) 04:49:56 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 05:16:59 --- join: hosewiejacke joined #forth 05:21:09 --- quit: andrei-n (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:21:18 --- join: andrei-n joined #forth 05:34:41 --- join: tech_exorcist joined #forth 05:37:59 --- quit: tech_exorcist (Max SendQ exceeded) 05:38:19 --- join: tech_exorcist joined #forth 05:41:37 --- quit: tech_exorcist (Max SendQ exceeded) 05:43:01 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 05:54:04 --- quit: mjl () 05:54:21 --- join: mjl joined #forth 05:55:29 --- join: elioat joined #forth 06:02:18 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Remote host closed the connection) 06:24:32 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 06:39:35 --- quit: neto (Quit: leaving) 06:51:38 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 07:12:30 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 07:15:50 --- quit: mirrorb2rd (Remote host closed the connection) 07:22:53 veltas im looking for a better licence than the one i made up 07:23:00 is mit non restrictive? 07:23:17 i dont even want to for you to release your own sourc code simply because you built with my compiler 07:23:32 even though part of your executable is derived from my sources 07:33:50 mark4: MIT is a simple BSD-style license (without the advertising clause): keep the copyright notice, keep the reference to the license, otherwise do as you please 07:39:21 Yep - we typically use BSD 3 clause when we want people to have to give us credit for using it and MIT when we don't require credit. They're both good licenses. 07:41:57 --- join: hosewiejacke joined #forth 08:01:02 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:06:13 i dont really care about credit either lol 08:06:50 hconsider all my repos mit now ill officially change them later lol 08:07:03 i never wanted to restrict anyones use of my code in any way 08:07:14 oretty much public domain ish kinda sorta lol 08:09:11 --- quit: elioat (Quit: elioat) 08:15:31 --- join: elioat joined #forth 08:24:01 --- join: f-a joined #forth 08:27:07 --- join: tech_exorcist joined #forth 08:28:57 --- join: mirrorbird joined #forth 08:29:20 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 08:29:38 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:31:21 --- quit: tech_exorcist (Max SendQ exceeded) 08:32:12 --- join: tech_exorcist joined #forth 08:35:34 --- quit: tech_exorcist (Max SendQ exceeded) 08:37:52 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 08:38:40 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 08:43:57 --- join: f-a joined #forth 08:55:17 gpl needs to go away and stay there 08:58:14 I like GPL, like, is it perfect? no 08:58:27 ↑ 08:58:28 do I want to make sure other people aren't making money of my work? absolutely 08:58:34 they can 08:58:41 they just have to share the modifications 08:58:53 well, they can as long as their work is also GPL yeah 08:59:02 but I mean, they can't just use it as if it's theirs, is the thing 08:59:03 fun fact 08:59:04 has to stay free 08:59:07 which I like 08:59:12 #toktok are having a similar discussion right now xD 08:59:20 lol 09:00:42 so i had a tooth pulled yesterday and the assistant told me when it ws done to get some a bottle each of thes over the counter pain killers. i said sure thing... and left 09:00:56 popped 2 asprin last night but really was not in any pain at all 09:01:26 still not in any pain, not even in any discomfort unless i do something silly to provoke it 09:02:57 had a check up scheduled for yesterday, that was it. there are a cpl of my theeth that needed some kind of fixin... dentist recommended a cleaning so i agreed and told me that tooth cannot be saved 09:03:20 so. i go to check out and the receptonist says,we got slots open today for your first of 4 cleanings AND the extraction 09:03:21 lol 09:03:37 only went for a checkup, had a teeth cleaning AND an extraction lol 09:03:38 too bad the biggest offenders of those GPL violations tend to get away with it - just look at all the driver code out there that exists only as blobs within sketchy linux kernel binaries from vendors who refuse to divulge the sources used to build them 09:03:58 think nvidia 09:04:05 FUCK nvidia -- Linus T 09:05:31 a lot of tablet and phone vendors, especially the ones that use chinese SoCs, are pretty bad in that regard 09:07:02 oh yea. pretty much every android driver is top secret 09:15:35 it isnt like those wifisd makers that often include the drivers and build files on the thing itself, though you need to dig a little 09:17:16 oh, I have gotten a Chinese SoC driver source for one project 09:17:48 the thing was written in assembly and commented in Chinese 09:19:34 I asked and it turns out that the driver written in C just bloats out in program and working memory footprint and fails the timing at the speed&voltage setting they wanted to use 09:22:16 --- quit: elioat (Quit: elioat) 09:47:42 --- join: elioat joined #forth 09:50:19 but c does not suck! honest! :) 09:57:34 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 10:02:22 it is better than the plusplus (ungood) version 10:14:57 but is it better than C--? 10:17:25 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 10:18:03 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 10:18:51 --- quit: mirrorbird (Quit: Leaving) 10:36:00 GPL and LGPL makes sense sometimes 10:39:48 --- join: tech_exorcist joined #forth 10:53:56 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 10:57:00 --- quit: elioat (Quit: elioat) 11:07:09 what doesnt make sense in these and other copy-licenses is the AS IS arse covering. As someone who makes electronics I can not put any such arse covering in place for these devices 11:30:14 --- join: hosewiejacke joined #forth 11:34:13 --- join: rixard joined #forth 11:35:56 --- join: hosewiejacke2 joined #forth 11:36:43 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Remote host closed the connection) 11:38:17 lawyers can splane that to you, we need that for the same reason we need "Do not feed to babies" on razor blade packages 11:38:18 --- join: ornxka_ joined #forth 11:38:23 --- join: Lord_Nightmare2 joined #forth 11:38:25 --- join: bluekelp_ joined #forth 11:43:04 --- quit: hosewiejacke (*.net *.split) 11:43:05 --- quit: sts-q (*.net *.split) 11:43:05 --- quit: Lord_Nightmare (*.net *.split) 11:43:05 --- quit: bluekelp (*.net *.split) 11:43:05 --- quit: rixard_ (*.net *.split) 11:43:05 --- quit: lispmacs[work] (*.net *.split) 11:43:05 --- quit: jyf (*.net *.split) 11:43:05 --- quit: ornxka (*.net *.split) 11:43:06 --- nick: Lord_Nightmare2 -> Lord_Nightmare 11:46:16 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 11:53:05 --- join: jyf joined #forth 11:53:53 --- quit: hosewiejacke2 (Quit: Leaving) 12:07:15 --- join: f-a joined #forth 12:39:43 my uCurses now has both windows with texxt scrolling in it, one with lorem ipsum with horriffic RGB colors for the text and background, the other in gray scales showing chinese poems 12:40:27 the lorem ipsum window looks like a freeking rainbow lol 12:43:47 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 12:45:06 * Zarutian_HTC comes across https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b and wonders if a PoW algorithm can be designed in such a way that any ASICs made are effectively fpgas 12:45:18 damn wrong channel 12:45:44 not if its all coded in forth :) 12:45:48 --- quit: andrei-n (Quit: Leaving) 12:50:41 something like https://rocelec.widen.net/view/pdf/jmlyzpugno/ATML-S-A0000772828-1.pdf?t.download=true&u=5oefqw 12:51:53 Zarutian_HTC: That would be a good outcome of all this mining madness. 12:52:19 Cheaper FPGAs 12:53:22 oh yeah, I'm definitely outfitting my servers with FPGAs once the crash happens 12:53:34 hopefully I can use that to start playing with making Forth CPUs :) 12:53:48 chinese ae making bank on all these miner buying their chips 12:54:25 one potential fpga design I have been doodling uses async muxes and memristors 12:54:30 tbh kinda hope dell or someone has the same idea and starts outfitting workstation PCs with fpgas for... idk, cad or video encoding or smth 12:55:14 but enough for it to start ending up on charts comparing PCs, so mfrs start competing on it 12:56:16 (basically the memristors are voltage dividers adressable at their terminals that are connected to vcc and gnd in operation) 12:56:23 hopefully you won't need gigs worth of bloat to generate blackbox bitstreams from them by that stage 12:57:17 inode: hence my interest in the ATMEL fpga 13:01:09 --- quit: inode (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13:03:37 --- join: Keshl joined #forth 13:11:09 --- join: inode joined #forth 13:12:24 Zarutian_HTC: what will you use? FIDS? 13:13:24 do not know what those are 13:14:09 https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/doc1421.pdf 13:15:05 basically NESW in NEWS out LUTs based on fast muxers and the memristor voltage dividers, as the basic cell 13:17:20 I see, probably. But there is an datasheet/additional-material that describes the bitstream exactly 13:22:11 if you're interested in their CPLDs too, you may have seen this project already: https://whitequark.github.io/prjbureau/intro.html 14:30:14 --- join: Zarutian_HTC1 joined #forth 14:30:14 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:40:27 --- quit: mstevens () 14:40:44 --- join: mstevens joined #forth 15:00:02 --- quit: tech_exorcist (Quit: I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world.) 15:56:26 --- quit: f-a (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:00:45 --- join: f-a joined #forth 16:52:04 --- quit: lispmacs (Remote host closed the connection) 16:52:18 --- join: lispmacs joined #forth 16:57:29 --- quit: f-a (Remote host closed the connection) 16:59:49 --- join: f-a joined #forth 17:14:11 --- quit: Gromboli (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:18:59 --- join: Gromboli joined #forth 17:30:01 --- join: Gromboli9 joined #forth 17:32:07 --- quit: Gromboli (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17:32:07 --- nick: Gromboli9 -> Gromboli 17:53:43 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC1 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 18:51:41 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:51:43 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:51:46 --- nick: boru` -> boru 19:28:58 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 19:59:00 --- quit: f-a (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20:00:54 --- join: f-a joined #forth 20:11:18 I have got a question about the Pad 20:11:25 how am I sure I am not overwritng something 20:11:37 say I write a word like 20:11:58 : aaa ( some pad writing ) bbb ( more pad wrinting ) ; 20:12:26 maybe bbb is modifying the pad itself and screws me up? 20:12:31 how do forther solve this? 20:15:05 http://lars.nocrew.org/forth2012/usage.html#usage:transient oh I see, standard words should not mess with it 20:19:02 dont use pad inside worse that use pad? :) 20:19:22 pad is usually here NNN + where nnn was traditionally 80 20:19:28 well how do I know that a word uses pad 20:19:42 9> inb4 recursively `see` it 20:19:45 number output routines usually do 20:20:26 in general use of pad is not safe 20:30:13 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 20:37:42 --- quit: sts-q (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 20:48:34 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 21:39:04 nihilazo, to say that people can't make money off your work is to say you don't want people to ever use your work. 21:55:06 f-a, typically pad is only used by low level words where you absolutely know you're not going to mess with things that might use it. When you see yourself looking at pad it's more likely that you need to use the dictionary for a temp space or alloc. 22:00:40 that «absolutely» scares me a bit xD 22:19:16 nihilazo: I like GPL because it ensures free software stays free 22:19:22 If that is your goal 22:19:31 Otherwise downstream has no incentive to upstream the changes 22:20:19 inode: I think the GPL violations team do a good job of winning cases, IIRC 22:23:01 Were it not for GPL, I probably would not be able to hack on my reMarkable e-ink tablet, because they use the Linux kernel, coreutils, bash etc. they are compelled to release the sources 22:23:10 I don't think GPL implies providing toolchain access, but it's nice that the same company released their toolchain 22:23:32 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 22:39:51 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 22:43:05 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 22:43:07 siraben, if the Remarkable folk didn't want their system to be open source they'd go a different direction. The license did not force them to do anything. The licenses only filter options. 22:44:11 unfortunately some parts (such as the e-ink waveform) are given as proprietary blobs, probably at the behest of E-Ink corp (very nasty monopoly) 22:50:12 yep - and no one's GPL license is going to change that. In fact, some interpretations of GLP3, AGLP3, etc could actually make it where you could not use those tools with such a system. 22:58:50 proteus-guy: what's GLP? is that a different license? 22:59:52 Gallant Lewd Productions 23:00:47 At least for the bootstrappable project, we definitely want code to be GPL'd so various distros can use it in their bootstrap 23:04:42 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 23:06:15 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23:06:16 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 23:40:06 --- join: andrei-n joined #forth 23:42:28 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:59:07 --- quit: f-a (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/21.03.10