00:00:00 --- log: started forth/21.01.21 00:14:20 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 00:31:39 --- join: xek joined #forth 00:52:15 i mean some people would say that a classic computer is about direct control of the hardware, no unpredictable results after compilation, etc 00:52:21 but to me it's about the immediacy 00:53:45 So you'd be happy with a fast computer that gives you wrong answers sometimes? 00:53:49 ie you turn it on and you are immediately in the editor for your program which is also the prompt and the interpreter 00:54:02 boru: i have no idea where you got that from 00:54:36 the opposite of "not unpredictable" is not "wrong" it's "unpredictable" 00:55:33 I would say that wrong answers sometimes is in the set of unpredictability. 00:56:01 well, sure, for example: because you are programming way up the stack, and are trying to work with something that is many layers deep, you are having a hard time figuring out what might be interfering with your work and giving you a different result than what you intend 00:56:07 but it might also be unpredictable timing 00:56:12 sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow 00:56:25 I'd class that as determinism. 00:56:52 as in "determined to be x" as in "predicted correctly to be x"? 00:56:56 those are synonyms 00:57:07 In computing context, no, not really. 00:58:38 "unpredictable" isn't a universally adopted technical term in computer engineering. it means just what i choose it to mean -- neither more nor less. 00:58:49 so as you're saying i'd be happy to take a modern cpu and sacrifice some of the speed to get the kind of predictability that you're thinking of 01:04:11 --- join: dysprosaic joined #forth 01:26:35 --- quit: hosewiejacke2 (Quit: Leaving) 01:35:08 --- join: xek_ joined #forth 01:37:36 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 01:47:04 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 03:35:54 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 03:42:27 --- quit: tabemann (Remote host closed the connection) 03:42:41 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 03:43:23 cheater: VMs were used to save space on 8-bit machines, where the code to wrangle 16-bit or 32-bit integers or floating point numbers was always going to be larger than a list of operations on a stack or a register based machine 03:43:45 SWEET16 makes much shorter code than 6502, it's implemented in 6502 and is register-based 03:44:45 And the Spectrum's calculator stack VM is written in Z80 and lets you implement complicated mathematical approximation schemes (as it's used to implement COS, etc) with a lot less footprint than Z80 would 03:49:35 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Remote host closed the connection) 04:07:00 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04:11:00 wow that's really cool and interesting 04:11:21 veltas: so this way we get more space in the rom? 04:19:13 Well without doing it that way I don't think they could have fit the approximation routines 04:20:31 Or their structure would have been much more complicated and buggy 04:28:08 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04:50:49 --- quit: dysprosaic (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:51:15 --- join: dysprosaic joined #forth 05:07:51 --- quit: dave0 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 05:59:23 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 06:03:47 --- quit: yyyyyy`` (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 06:04:13 --- quit: yyyyyy (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 06:20:20 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 06:31:41 --- quit: heredoc (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 06:32:14 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 06:56:42 --- join: actuallybatman joined #forth 07:00:23 --- join: heredoc joined #forth 07:19:56 --- quit: jimt[m] (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM) 07:20:01 --- quit: patrickg (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM) 07:20:32 --- quit: siraben (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM) 07:28:17 --- join: jimt[m] joined #forth 07:36:18 --- join: patrickg joined #forth 07:36:18 --- join: siraben joined #forth 09:59:51 --- quit: cp- (Quit: Disappeared in a puff of smoke) 10:09:12 --- join: cp- joined #forth 10:09:49 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 10:14:23 --- quit: cp- (Quit: Disappeared in a puff of smoke) 10:20:07 --- join: Bahman joined #forth 10:27:31 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Connection closed) 10:30:36 --- join: cp- joined #forth 11:00:04 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 11:24:49 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 11:28:21 --- quit: Wojciech_K (*.net *.split) 11:28:29 --- join: WojciechK joined #forth 11:31:19 --- quit: xek_ (Remote host closed the connection) 11:31:46 --- join: xek_ joined #forth 11:45:27 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:54:26 --- join: cheater joined #forth 11:54:44 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 12:38:24 --- join: Mat8 joined #forth 12:40:15 --- join: Gromboli4 joined #forth 12:42:21 --- quit: Gromboli (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:42:21 --- nick: Gromboli4 -> Gromboli 12:48:28 --- join: inode joined #forth 13:06:37 G'Day everyone. 13:09:17 I want to get your attentions to the Parallax Propeller II, which seems to be finally 'buyable' now. The MCU comes with a complete Forth environment as bootloader 13:19:16 where from? 13:25:13 Hmm I have a Propeller 1 experimentation board that I need to play with at some point. 13:26:45 https://www.parallax.com/product-category/propeller-2/ 13:27:04 Lots of Propeller 2 stuff on their website 13:27:16 you can order directly from there store 13:29:00 https://www.parallax.com/product/propeller-2-multicore-microcontroller-chip/ 13:29:48 ... soldering will not be such easy as I see 13:34:01 at least it's not bga, you can drag solder tqfp 13:34:45 for my it's difficult enough 13:36:29 I probably buy a P2 edge board for prototyping 13:37:36 but .. it's nice finally to play with a real chip 14:05:23 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 14:36:07 ciao 14:36:10 --- quit: Mat8 (Quit: Leaving) 15:03:55 --- quit: dave0 (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 15:05:34 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 15:55:18 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:55:35 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 15:56:32 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 16:06:57 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 16:41:58 --- quit: cantstanya (*.net *.split) 16:43:02 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 17:14:40 --- join: cantstanya joined #forth 18:36:28 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:36:30 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:36:33 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:45:26 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 18:46:43 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 18:46:56 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 20:16:24 --- join: wineroots joined #forth 20:38:58 --- quit: sts-q (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:42:11 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 20:42:41 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 20:46:49 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 20:47:11 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 21:07:26 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 22:58:02 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 23:33:27 --- join: hosewiejacke2 joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/21.01.21