00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.11.13 00:23:14 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 00:36:21 --- join: proteusguy joined #forth 00:48:43 --- join: inode joined #forth 01:48:33 I want to get more fluent in writing Forth code 01:51:07 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01:58:54 --- join: proteusguy joined #forth 03:50:18 i want to get fluemt at reading forth code 03:51:30 i know what all of the words mean, but even when i step back and look at code i just wrote, it looks like gibberish to me 04:07:23 they dont call it a "write only" language for nothing 04:26:22 i've been playing with factor lately, thinking maybe a higher-level forthlike would give me some insight. but the truth is, i have the same problem with functional programming languages, so factor just represents the intersection of two illegible things for me 04:28:12 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 04:31:22 --- join: proteusguy joined #forth 04:31:53 Switching paradigms, e.g. procedural to functional, takes time (I know this from experience). 04:34:47 --- join: Gromboli joined #forth 04:40:11 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04:47:11 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 05:25:06 --- quit: dave0 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:30:23 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 05:34:06 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: No route to host) 05:38:16 --- join: hosewiejacke joined #forth 05:38:30 --- join: MrMobius joined #forth 06:00:16 cmtptr: Is it any worse than writing assembly code? 06:00:34 In which case commenting almost every line helps a lot 06:01:51 Forth feels a lot like assembly code, but working only with the stack instead of registers requires me to unlearn register idea. 06:02:32 But it's even better than assembly where you can create instructions (words) as you go. Just need to get comfortable with stack manipulation. 06:03:08 (I meant to say whereas in Forth you can create instructions (words) as you go) 06:03:34 I'll move on to Factor later once I'm fluent with Forth 06:08:28 Another advantage of Forth over assembly: it's (mostly) portable. 06:13:14 Indeed. I was able to run https://forth-standard.org/standard/testsuite (modified to remove floating point tests) on my TI-84+ Forth without problem. 06:13:49 Or this random RC4 example from Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_(programming_language)#A_complete_RC4_cipher_program 06:26:13 neuro_sys, admittedly, though i'm perfectly comfortable with assembly, i don't typically write it directly. so i'm not sure what my feelings would be if i went back and tried to write an entire program in assembly today (i haven't done that since college), or how it would compare to how i feel about forth 06:28:31 I know that without Forth it would be much more difficult for me to do low-level hacking directly on the TI-84+ itself. Although since it has no error handling sometimes I plan out a bit on paper before typing it in the REPL. 06:43:14 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Remote host closed the connection) 06:44:56 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 06:46:11 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:46:37 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:46:46 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 06:46:52 --- join: hosewiejacke joined #forth 06:51:59 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Remote host closed the connection) 07:00:40 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 07:07:35 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 07:15:21 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:27:02 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 08:53:25 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 09:12:09 --- join: hosewiejacke joined #forth 10:02:04 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:02:04 --- join: Zarutian_HTC1 joined #forth 10:06:02 --- quit: iyzsong (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in) 10:06:18 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 10:06:51 --- quit: APic (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 10:07:45 --- join: APic joined #forth 10:20:26 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 10:22:02 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 10:24:31 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 10:47:06 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC1 (Remote host closed the connection) 10:56:51 I started writing assembly fairly often a year ago or so, and it's got really comfortable over time. I think the same applies to Forth, but it's obviously somewhat easier to write starting code due to existing useful words. 10:57:56 s/starting code/forth/ 11:08:35 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 11:13:21 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:23:32 --- join: hosewiejacke joined #forth 11:26:35 --- join: proteusguy joined #forth 11:27:25 --- quit: cantstanya (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:31:50 --- quit: hosewiejacke (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 11:32:34 --- join: cantstanya joined #forth 12:28:13 --- join: kamid joined #forth 12:45:10 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:53:29 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 12:53:29 --- log: stopped forth/20.11.13 12:56:11 --- log: started forth/20.11.13 12:56:11 --- join: clog joined #forth 12:56:11 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN backup at http://forthworks.com/forth/irc-logs/ | If you have two (or more) stacks and speak RPN then you're welcome here! | https://github.com/mark4th' 12:56:11 --- topic: set by proteusguy!~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th on [Mon Dec 30 10:43:28 2019] 12:56:11 --- names: list (clog kamid cantstanya proteusguy WickedShell APic iyzsong MrMobius Gromboli inode _whitelogger sts-q boru imode Vedran pareidolia zge tabemann phadthai jimt[m] siraben rann ovf X-Scale patrickg ggVGc crest_ guan dnm heredoc remexre DKordic rpcope dys neuro_sys crc- nmz presiden arrdem pointfree dddddd diginet2 fiddlerwoaroof the_cuckoo veltas C-Keen djinni lispmacs[work] cmtptr ptrkriz cp- tolja ecraven tangentstorm mjl +crc a3f jn__ wineroots routeveg koisoke) 12:56:11 --- names: list (rprimus klys +KipIngram Chobbes cheers jedb spoofer WilhelmVonWeiner Keshl ornxka lonjil Lord_Nightmare irsol FUZxxl bluekelp Kumool dzho catern) 12:57:43 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 13:13:49 --- join: reepca joined #forth 14:44:14 --- quit: patrickg (Remote host closed the connection) 14:44:57 --- join: patrickg joined #forth 16:40:40 --- join: zolk3ri joined #forth 17:08:30 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 17:17:31 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 17:34:30 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 17:37:16 --- quit: zolk3ri (Remote host closed the connection) 18:38:26 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:38:29 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:38:31 --- nick: boru` -> boru 19:09:25 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 19:59:50 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 20:17:20 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 20:27:49 --- quit: sts-q (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20:29:23 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20:29:48 --- join: proteusguy joined #forth 20:41:50 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 21:06:51 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 21:18:33 --- join: proteusguy joined #forth 21:27:53 --- quit: Gromboli (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:30:35 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:30:35 --- join: Zarutian_HTC1 joined #forth 21:51:54 --- join: lispmacs joined #forth 21:52:19 hi, I've been having lots of fun lately with forth in an Arduino project 21:52:43 however, something a little confusing to me in forth is the issue of namespaces 21:53:21 I read this article by Chuck Moore where he said he hated word prefixes, and we shouldn't use them 21:53:37 but forth doesn't seem to have any provision for modules or namespaces 21:56:36 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 22:50:23 lispmacs, many forths have vocabularies and you can set the priority of those vocabularies for name resolution. 23:08:22 --- quit: cp- (Quit: Disappeared in a puff of smoke) 23:09:49 --- join: cp- joined #forth 23:18:04 https://librehacker.com/2020/11/13/forth-spi-on-arduino/ 23:18:25 my latest little project 23:29:14 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC1 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.11.13