00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.10.14 00:14:21 sts-q: cool! 00:44:34 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 01:15:55 --- join: f-a joined #forth 01:43:50 --- nick: Keshl_ -> Keshl 01:51:39 --- quit: neuro_sys (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:52:26 --- join: neuro_sys joined #forth 01:52:26 --- quit: neuro_sys (Changing host) 01:52:26 --- join: neuro_sys joined #forth 04:26:43 neat 04:27:03 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 04:53:55 --- join: TCZ joined #forth 04:54:20 --- join: f-a joined #forth 05:21:25 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 05:24:23 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 05:31:07 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 05:54:17 --- join: TCZ joined #forth 06:04:38 i knew of both factor and joy but i didn't check them out because for me the fun is inventing my own and i didn't want to be diluted with ideas from something that already exists. but yeah, i should explore other things for ideas when i hit a hard roadblock 06:05:48 heard about them, would like to see some production software (idk a game) written in them 06:36:23 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 07:07:28 cmtptr: same here 08:08:13 --- join: f-a joined #forth 08:18:21 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 08:46:31 --- join: f-a_ joined #forth 08:48:10 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 08:48:23 --- quit: f-a (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 08:48:55 --- quit: f-a_ (Client Quit) 08:49:08 --- join: f-a joined #forth 09:06:53 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 09:12:37 hehe, ya someone pointed out that most forth projects seem to be making a forth 09:12:44 as opposed to using a forth to make something else 09:13:26 yeah 09:22:26 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 09:27:26 --- quit: sts-q (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:29:39 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 10:00:28 cmtptr: yes, i understand, i feel it the same, it is a lot of fun to find its own way. Well, it takes a lot of time. 10:00:28 This is 2048 and Tetris of Joy, rabbit accent. 10:00:28 https://bitbucket.org/sts-q/rabbit-vm/src/master/src/games.rabbit 10:06:32 MrMobius, for me, forth is a way to explore new ideas and develop how i approach software problems. if my goal is to make something else, then for me, the path of least resistance is c 10:09:07 cmtptr, dont let anyone else hear you say that :P 10:13:24 i know 10:19:12 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 10:25:53 f-a: This is something i never understood: there are so many implementations of interesting languages, Forth 10:25:53 or others, but where are the applications using these ? I don't expect anyone running her factory on it, 10:25:53 but there should be 'some' small programs, written from others ? 10:26:26 sts-q: I am not a forth dev, I am learning and would like to buy a SOC to get hands on 10:26:35 but on the language I use (Haskell) 10:26:52 1) there is exactly one standard implementation — sad! — 10:27:10 2) and there are some useful programs, tho the most juicy ones are closed source / for firms 10:27:42 (i.e. I wrote those two, which are nothing spectacular but do something useful http://www.ariis.it/static/articles/lentil-manual/page.html http://www.ariis.it/static/articles/venzone/page.html ) 10:27:55 I think it's because writing a forth system is fun because it's so easy 10:28:01 with Forth you always hear that the project is corporate or personal 10:28:06 writing a C compiler is very difficult and not fun 10:28:12 I suspect that is b/c Forth people like to work from the ground up 10:28:42 other people can tell you examples of forth in the real world 10:28:59 some space stuff i think 10:29:06 power distribution stuff 10:31:53 even writing an assembler is harder than writing a forth 10:37:39 MrMobius: Yes, that is very true: i don't know any other language that could give you such a lift in abstraction level from asm to above C with so few LOC. 10:45:42 --- quit: kori (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:53:40 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 10:53:54 https://github.com/saitoha/libsixel 10:56:30 is this related to forth? 10:57:01 «forth-sixel» https://hub.darcs.net/pointfree/forth-sixel 10:57:07 hosted on darcs, awesome 11:00:34 also https://github.com/tabemann/hashforth/blob/master/src/hashforth/sixel.fs 11:04:23 perhaps sixel support will now be more widespread in terminal emulators 11:20:55 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:21:30 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 11:45:55 --- join: TCZ joined #forth 12:03:27 sts-q: well this isn't for an entire factory, but it'll work for at least a small PLC @ https://es.ua/forthlogic 12:04:58 no guide in english unfortunately, but there's a simulator on offer to play with and a guide in russian about the dialect of forth in use - which is out of date compared to what you'll find @ https://archive.org/details/ProgrammingForthLogicV27Ru/page/n5/mode/2up 12:15:19 a doc in english about a device that can be programmed using forthlogic: https://www.fif.com.pl/en/index.php?controller=attachment?id_attachment=1601 12:27:28 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 12:36:15 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 12:48:18 --- quit: f-a (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 12:49:48 --- join: f-a joined #forth 13:08:15 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:11:00 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 14:25:37 --- join: kori joined #forth 14:25:37 --- quit: kori (Changing host) 14:25:37 --- join: kori joined #forth 14:38:21 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 14:52:20 those forths that do everything with quotations (joy might be one, i can't remember): how do they, for example, conditionally exit? for example, (not sure if my syntax is right) : foo [ do-something exit ] [ ] some-check if other-stuff... ; wouldn't the exit there only exit from the quotation? do these forths tend to make heavy use of the rdrop-exit idiom, and is there a word for it? 14:56:59 this is ... inconvienent to do in a quotation heavy forth 14:57:46 ha, that's what i was starting to suspect. i thought it looked compelling, but now i'm thinking maybe it's a neat gimmick and not actually so practical 14:58:15 I have some words like if; case s:case that return to the caller after running the do-something part 14:58:38 but this requires a bit more consideration in implementing such words 14:59:05 yeah, it's giving me ptsd flashbacks of uplevel from tcl 14:59:42 it leads to a different style of coding and structuring things, not really a gimmick, but definitely different than classical forth 15:06:20 `:foo [ do-something ] if; ... ;` isn't much different from `: foo if do-something exit then ... ;` 15:10:17 cmtptr: what do you have against uplevel from tcl? quite handy for implementing esoteric control structures that peg code reviewers wtf meter 15:13:40 --- quit: sts-q (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:16:41 oh, you work for a company where people actually read the code reviews and don't just click approve. that's why we've had different experiences 15:16:52 --- part: f-a left #forth 15:25:55 cmtptr: a small electronics manifacturing shop. You do not get away with out any review 15:26:16 i need to change jobs 15:27:36 where i work, people either don't read them or the ones that do are just irritating and petty people who ding you for stupid stuff like a space after a comma is missing (nevermind that it's that way because it's in a chunk of code that you copied from something they wrote) 15:27:41 * Zarutian_HTC it was home grown orcad/kicad/eaglecad board files to pick and place file format converter if you must know 15:28:57 oh, this is precisely why I like linters that run as a git check in hook 15:30:28 i'd love to work for a small local business, i just don't know how to find them 15:31:24 where in the world, coarsely, are you situated? 15:31:33 southeast us 15:31:45 specifically georgia 15:34:27 hmm... and you do not know any tradesmen, even tangengally know of, of any kind be it welders, mechanics that fix vechiles that might have 'unobtainum' parts? 15:34:47 no, my social network is garbage 15:36:21 you could go to the nearest self owned mechanics shop and just ask, might give you some kind of pointers 15:39:06 pointers such as just a name of a company 15:39:39 company for what? 15:39:55 in your field 15:40:09 why would a mechanic know that? 15:41:26 because often a car, tractor, what have you has some control electronics that needs to be repaired and replacement is not available 15:41:58 ah 15:45:36 * Zarutian_HTC notes that Bosch ECUs have damn nigh impossible to desolder big connectors: the fix, desolder an broken connector from otherwise working unit, do the same to a broken donor with whole connector, and put the whole connector on the working unit. 15:46:03 the kind from 1998 btw 15:49:24 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 16:31:34 --- join: TCZ joined #forth 16:44:12 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 16:45:47 --- join: f-a joined #forth 17:13:52 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 17:54:24 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 17:57:22 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 18:20:21 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 18:30:33 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:30:55 --- quit: deesix (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 18:32:52 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:32:55 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:32:57 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:40:17 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 18:43:08 --- join: deesix joined #forth 18:44:08 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 18:45:42 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 18:50:52 --- join: zolk3ri joined #forth 19:01:40 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 19:03:52 --- quit: lonjil (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 19:16:48 --- join: lonjil joined #forth 19:17:31 --- quit: zolk3ri (Remote host closed the connection) 20:13:23 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 20:30:06 --- quit: DKordic (Quit: AFK) 20:35:06 --- quit: sts-q (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:51:08 --- join: sts-q joined #forth 21:41:27 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:37:25 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.10.14