00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.10.01 00:28:47 --- join: f-a joined #forth 00:32:55 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 00:35:18 Cool there's a Z80 llvm compiler target now? Is there any kind of 6809 out there? 00:35:49 is there? amazing 00:42:04 proteusguy: Yep! Not sure about the 6809, I only recently heard about Motorola 68000 support being upstreamed: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LLVM-Motorola-6800-Series-2020 00:42:45 f-a: yeah. looks like it's more targeted towards the eZ80 on the TI-84 PCE, but Z80 works as well 00:43:22 Likely an excellent way to learn about the intermediate language representation in llvm with such a simple cpu target as well. 00:44:06 Have to see how biased it is towards register based machines vs stack based ones to see if it could be a good target for a stack CPU like J1 or a future ActorForth. 00:44:15 Yeah. LLVM has a tutorial on writing a backend: https://www.llvm.org/docs/WritingAnLLVMBackend.html 00:44:34 LLVM is very biased towards register machines 00:44:48 (sigh) that's what I'm afraid of.... alas. 00:45:08 Though, someone has written an LLVM backend for EVM https://github.com/etclabscore/evm_llvm/wiki/files/LLVM_talk.pdf 00:45:21 Interesting. 00:46:19 Wow, seems like because stack machines are not common some LLVM infrastructure tools are missing 00:47:37 yeah no surprise. wonder if there's a video of this presentation somewhere. Also EVM only having one stack is altogether a different animal than a dual (or more) stack machine. 00:48:25 yeah, that's really a problem. How did EVM's designers even come up with a single stack, heh. 00:48:53 proteusguy: yeah the talk is on youtube, if you look up evm llvm 00:51:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11puWcx6Zf4 00:56:14 I wonder if you could write .ll directly 00:56:40 *ir 00:57:01 .ll is the extension, yeah 00:58:15 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 00:58:29 f-a, you certainly can. 00:59:05 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 00:59:27 siraben, nice! will check out that video. wonder why people aren't targeting it for their languages. seems you could fix Solidity/Vyper pretty quickly with something like this. 01:00:13 I like what the speaker just said, Solidity telling Ethereum Foundation they shouldn't add opcodes because of lack of compiler support is like GCC telling Intel the same thing 01:00:25 And the foundation wants to add things like actual subroutines and so on. 01:00:32 direct jumps too 01:01:20 haha solidity should just die. 01:02:32 I wonder if Vyper has improved as of late, they made pretty terrible changes last time I followed it 01:03:28 It's slow in moving... has very little support - plus it's not going the right direction at all imho. It basically just sucks less than Solidity. 01:04:06 Ugh, yeah. 01:07:45 --- join: rann joined #forth 01:07:45 --- join: guan joined #forth 01:53:03 --- quit: rann (*.net *.split) 01:53:03 --- quit: guan (*.net *.split) 02:10:28 --- join: rann joined #forth 02:10:28 --- join: guan joined #forth 02:11:53 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 02:13:24 --- quit: rann (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 02:15:02 --- join: rann joined #forth 03:22:45 --- join: f-a joined #forth 03:23:07 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 03:27:35 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 03:43:52 --- join: xek joined #forth 04:12:47 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 04:31:05 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:34:04 siraben, interestingly release v0.2.5 just came out yesterday for Vyper. https://github.com/vyperlang/vyper/blob/1e621e8cff5e170e93ce7a33817adfb95244eec2/docs/release-notes.rst#v025 04:34:25 --- join: xek joined #forth 04:52:25 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 05:08:54 Nice improvements. 05:36:05 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 06:12:34 --- join: f-a joined #forth 06:28:13 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 06:45:55 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:52:58 --- quit: kori (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:57:01 is assembly needed to learn forth? 06:57:17 well, very useful rather 07:04:54 it can be helpful, but I wouldn't say it's needed 07:07:17 f-a: jonesforth is a great introduction to Forth, https://github.com/nornagon/jonesforth 07:07:27 I didn't know x86assembly while reading it and it still made sense. 07:08:12 thanks! 07:16:56 I use forth all the time, but only use assembly occasionally 07:17:24 what do you use it for, if I may ask 07:20:22 f-a, people usually combine forth and assembly if they need performance 07:20:37 probably not relevant if youre on a desktop though 07:21:27 thanks, indeed I am on a desktop but I feel this is not the best «place» where to learn/use forth 07:21:32 (maybe I am wrong) 07:21:59 should be fine. go for it 07:26:30 forth works great on a desktop or server :) 07:28:17 I write and maintain a variety of server-based applications written in Forth that we use where I work 07:28:25 it does for sure but I do not see what problems I would like to solve with it or what programs I would like to build with it. 07:28:31 oh, I see, very interesting 07:28:38 and it's my language of choice for personal projects of all sorts 07:29:44 e.g., I've been working on a tool to convert Markdown to XHTML & epub for my documentation, and for other books I edit 07:30:12 that is quite interesting 07:30:17 is the source open? 07:31:26 for the epub tool yes, for the work apps, no 07:31:37 yes yes, I was talking about the epub 07:31:55 I am curios to see what a forth codebase (a reasonably complex one) looks like 07:33:56 --- join: xek joined #forth 07:38:01 it spans a few source files. 07:38:39 http://forth.works/share/book-chapters.retro.html http://forth.works/share/book-chapters-to-xhtml.retro.html http://forth.works/share/markdown-to-xhtml.retro.html http://forth.works/share/generate-epub.retro.html 07:39:10 amazing, I will read these with interest! 07:39:33 notes: these are the syntax highlighted versions, for the raw source, drop the .html 07:40:12 phenomenal! 07:40:14 notes: the syntax highlighted versions are generated using a program in forth (a variation of the markdown to xhtml) 07:40:41 final note: the web server used to host these is also written in forth 07:40:56 by you? 07:41:06 yes 07:42:53 I try to use my own tools as much as possible 07:51:59 --- quit: f-a (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07:53:41 --- join: f-a joined #forth 08:07:26 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 08:08:38 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 08:46:26 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 09:04:44 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 09:51:18 --- quit: cheater (Remote host closed the connection) 10:03:02 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 11:01:18 --- quit: guan (*.net *.split) 11:30:26 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Remote host closed the connection) 11:43:46 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 11:47:45 --- join: guan joined #forth 11:49:17 --- quit: f-a (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:51:59 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 11:52:29 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 11:53:59 --- join: f-a joined #forth 12:02:27 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Remote host closed the connection) 13:11:11 --- quit: patrickg (Remote host closed the connection) 13:11:40 --- join: patrickg joined #forth 13:18:05 --- quit: patrickg (Remote host closed the connection) 13:20:30 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 13:23:22 --- join: patrickg joined #forth 13:23:28 --- quit: patrickg (Remote host closed the connection) 13:24:11 --- join: patrickg joined #forth 13:28:38 --- quit: patrickg (Remote host closed the connection) 13:29:30 --- join: patrickg joined #forth 14:10:28 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:15:10 --- join: barney92 joined #forth 14:15:21 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 14:19:09 --- quit: barney92 (Remote host closed the connection) 15:06:53 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 15:48:36 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 15:49:26 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:52:56 --- quit: X-Scale` (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:17:06 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 16:55:18 --- quit: guan (*.net *.split) 17:06:09 --- join: guan joined #forth 17:21:12 --- quit: MrMobius (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it) 17:35:04 --- join: MrMobius joined #forth 17:36:15 --- join: Zarutian_HTC1 joined #forth 17:36:27 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:37:19 --- nick: Zarutian_HTC1 -> Zarutian_HTC 17:56:24 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Remote host closed the connection) 18:46:22 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:46:25 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:46:27 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:51:23 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 18:54:23 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 19:23:03 --- quit: spoofer (Quit: leaving) 20:21:30 --- quit: guan (*.net *.split) 20:49:21 --- join: guan joined #forth 21:08:31 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 21:15:13 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 21:29:33 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 21:32:07 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:44:40 --- quit: jedb_ (Remote host closed the connection) 22:45:00 --- join: jedb joined #forth 23:22:24 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 23:36:23 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 23:47:43 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.10.01