00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.08.29 01:23:46 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 02:31:03 --- join: X-Scale joined #forth 05:34:23 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 05:39:11 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 06:25:20 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 07:18:46 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 07:19:26 ActorForth has comments, strings, and basic loops! :-) Almost a real language kinda sorta... 07:21:45 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 10:29:06 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:35:23 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 11:20:32 --- join: mokulus joined #forth 11:44:15 --- join: xek joined #forth 11:45:48 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 11:46:27 * Zarutian_HTC heard from a friend that had moved to Britain and back (pre-brexit) had someone claiming to be from TV Licensing authority show up and wanted to see his TV. My friend responded that the guy was a burglary caser if he had ever seen one and told him to get lost. 11:52:22 The thing is that it was abolished around 2000 and is just part of the council fee. He was visited in 2004 iirc. 12:01:22 --- quit: ecraven (Quit: bye) 12:01:46 --- join: ecraven joined #forth 12:13:13 so the loicense memes are true?? 12:17:54 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:36:12 --- join: brainfunnel joined #forth 13:50:56 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 13:51:44 mokulus: not sure what you mean 13:52:19 how old are you? first digit 13:53:16 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:13:44 a/s/l? 14:15:02 18/f/cali 14:15:04 u? 14:15:10 that's incredible, me too! 14:31:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v crc 14:33:37 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 14:59:22 --- quit: mokulus (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:16:47 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:54:30 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 15:55:03 maw 16:16:11 https://mixnmojo.com/galleries/full/full20040724111228.png ?? 16:24:24 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 16:27:24 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 16:50:05 just adding thousands of tiny forth cores to a die won't result in a useful chip 16:50:35 you'll quickly encounter amdahl's law 16:51:28 and have to spend most resources on the interconnect between the simple cores to do anything more intersting than bitcoin mining with them 16:52:14 the mental load on the programmer is one of the important reasons that intersting designs like the cell processor failed 16:53:50 implementing a token threaded forth on cortex m3/m4 would be nice because they have a jump table instructions (TBB, TBH) for 8 bit and 16bit tokens 16:54:24 some CISC instruction sets have indexed addressing modes that can be use to accomplish the same 17:06:24 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 17:07:41 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:07:49 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 17:09:24 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 18:07:06 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 18:20:28 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:20:31 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:20:34 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:49:09 What's the general rule for word size? 18:49:17 As in lines of code that defines a word? 18:51:43 7 words 18:51:57 one line 18:54:00 Really? 19:05:56 one line is best. sometimes if you're doing particularly low level stuff you might have several lines of one or two words like asm. but words are meant to be crazy short and highly factored. loops and control structures are typically the longest words and you should break any multi-depth ones into separate words. 19:13:12 Hmm ok 19:15:58 So something like: 19:15:59 \ read adc 19:15:59 : adc-read ( -- u ) adc-start adc-wait-eoc ADC_DR @ ; 19:16:01 is ok ? 19:19:00 Hmm 19:19:54 Actually looking at my current code, even if its bloated for forth code, its still somehow many times smaller than the equiviliant / typical c code 19:22:13 yep looks good. 19:23:23 jsoft, no body writes optimized code the first time. get it working first. then refactor. then refactor. then refactor one more time. :-) 19:23:54 key is to work on as small a useful problem you can at a time. 19:25:51 Its kind of interesting though, as trying to make it smaller seems to simplify it 19:25:56 Somehow 19:26:03 Not sure how to describe it 19:26:42 I makes it more elegant as you remove all the things that aren't strictly necessary to succinctly describe the solution and intent of the programmer's mental model. 19:27:22 Good languages encourage this. Forth practically demands it. ;-) 19:28:21 I think this is a natural consequence of the stack-oriented concatenative nature of forth. 19:28:30 Its quite satisfying though, seeing what would be/was many lines of code, into some tiny stupidly small bunch of lines 19:28:58 And then as a bonus, you can interactively diddle with the micro controller :D 19:29:09 And test the words and such 19:30:58 Yes I love the interactive nature of the repl. My language ActorForth is targeted towards Ethereum and Bitcoin contracts and no one has interactive models for those yet. Extremely useful. 19:31:16 jsoft, what kinds of things are you working on with your forthing? 19:31:52 proteus-guy, at the moment I am working on a mouse trap 19:32:23 After this, it will be some radio sensor stuff 19:32:59 Ah cool - mechanical AND violent! :-) What hardware you playing with? 19:33:34 Nah not mechanical, its an stm32l0, which essentially drives a car ignition coil to... erm.. neutralize the mouse 19:33:54 Takes a PIR logic input to trigger it. 19:34:21 But also has adjustable PWM freq and duty cycle, low battery voltage cut outs and such 19:34:42 electric shock even! 19:34:46 Yep 19:34:52 what's going to trigger it? 19:34:55 PIR 19:35:05 Like infra red gizmo 19:35:10 Like whats on security lights and such 19:35:14 Ah ok. 19:36:02 But yeah, this is really just an excuse to get back into uC forth stuff 19:36:16 The tricky stuff will be the radio sensor project 19:36:21 Bunch of AES stuff etc 19:36:28 sounds like a fun project. 19:36:40 Oh also want to make a music maker 19:37:16 So generates random tunes, like it goes 'hmm randomly generate a drum beat' and so on and so forth for other instruments, in pre-defined time signatures 19:37:23 That could be fun :D 19:39:18 What kinds of things do you use forth for ? 19:39:49 jsoft, like any "real" forther - writing new forths. ;-) haha 19:40:03 :D 19:40:40 normally embedded devices but it's been a long time since I've had the opportunity. Right now creating a new forth language for the purpose of creating specialized DSLs for cryptoledger smart contracts. 19:41:21 main aspect of mine is that it is strictly typed. correctness is critical for cryptocontracts. 19:43:10 --- quit: brainfunnel (Quit: whoops) 19:44:13 Oh ok 19:44:21 Nerd :P 19:44:28 totally 19:46:04 What kinds of embedded devices have you played with in the past? 19:49:07 186 controllers, AtMel stuff (which I really loved), avoided 8051s and PICs. I don't like the ARM ISA but I've dealt with ARM devices. Have a few of the first ever RISCV socs. My main interest is FPGAs. Wanna make an ActorForth CPU once I have the language stable. 19:49:51 Of course back in the 80s the 8bit CPUs - mostly 6502 and 6809 (which I still love) and 68k stuff. 19:52:54 jsoft, do you use Mecrisp in your development? 19:55:09 proteus-guy, yep 19:55:55 proteus-guy, pretty much the only forth ive used to date 19:56:56 Ah I just noticed you're on the #Mecrisp channel. :-) 19:57:03 :) 19:57:52 It's a really well done environment. You're lucky to have hit upon it. :-) 19:58:43 Mate, I love it 19:58:56 It is so damn useful being able to test out / figure out things from a terminal 20:02:17 Sucks for those mice, however. ;-) haha 20:02:19 --- join: mokulus joined #forth 20:02:26 :D 20:07:52 --- quit: jsoft (Remote host closed the connection) 20:13:38 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 21:16:37 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 22:48:30 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 23:23:53 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 23:34:35 --- quit: jsoft (Quit: Leaving) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.08.29