00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.08.12 01:02:05 --- quit: jedb (Remote host closed the connection) 01:02:21 --- join: jedb joined #forth 02:06:01 --- quit: Blue_flame (Quit: killed) 02:06:02 --- quit: litvinof (Quit: killed) 02:06:03 --- quit: alexshpilkin (Quit: killed) 02:06:07 --- quit: jimt[m] (Quit: killed) 02:06:08 --- quit: siraben (Quit: killed) 02:06:11 --- quit: betrion[m] (Quit: killed) 02:11:19 --- join: siraben joined #forth 02:20:02 --- join: jimt[m] joined #forth 02:20:02 --- join: Blue_flame joined #forth 02:20:02 --- join: litvinof joined #forth 02:20:08 --- join: betrion[m] joined #forth 02:20:08 --- join: alexshpilkin joined #forth 03:03:42 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 04:08:46 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 04:24:34 --- quit: iyzsong (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 04:24:35 --- join: iyzsong- joined #forth 06:32:38 --- join: bluekelp joined #forth 06:35:23 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 07:47:06 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 08:15:47 --- join: mark4 joined #forth 08:17:52 well my 64 bit version of x4 is now compiling extensions - slowly going over every extension to change it to work with the sub threaded kernel :) 08:19:12 mark4, cool - is it gonna work on debian/ubuntu? ;-) 08:20:08 the only reason my 32 bit forth did not work is because debian puts terminfo in a stupid place. i was cutting corners there anyway, i had the terminfo path hard coded to /usr/share/terminfo 08:20:24 but it can be in /etc/terminfo and in ~/.terminfo or something 08:20:48 it just pisses me off that debian put a non library in /lib lol terminfo is not a library its a database :P 08:20:58 i just add /lib/terminfo to the list of options 08:21:08 mark4, right so this time it's gonna find it right so 80%+ of linux users can run your forth? 08:21:36 100% of them already can if they cp -r /lib/terminfo /usr/share :P~ 08:21:37 lol 08:21:55 but this was a "im just pissy" thing so ill make the change lol 08:22:45 yeah such is the life of customer support ;-) haha 08:23:28 well like i said, the only reason i never did that in the past is because im pissy about it :P 08:23:45 putting terminfo in /lib/terminfo is jut WRONG k :P 08:26:39 Hey I'm just looking forward to closing your one and only open issue: https://github.com/mark4th/x4/issues/3 since 2019! ;-) 08:28:12 lol 08:28:28 which i did not even know was there - and you NEVER pinged me about it in here till recently lol 08:29:27 --- quit: Chobbes (Changing host) 08:29:27 --- join: Chobbes joined #forth 08:30:05 when i get this fully up and running ill retire the 32 bit version, not do further devel with it 08:30:11 github should have pinged you! 08:30:41 i get lots of emails from github about this or that or whatever and i think i filter them out now lol 08:30:49 oh another spam from github. delete 08:31:06 its WORSE now because im using github at work using my OWN github login not a work github login 08:31:13 so any time someone does a PR i get a spam 08:31:28 im supposed to go review those PRs lol 08:33:24 i dont have an option for jmp next or inline next in this forth because next is just ret 08:33:31 I subscribe to a few dozen github projects - mail filters are your friend. 08:33:33 but i did add an option for inline or jmp exit :) 08:33:46 too lazy. i just delete :P 08:33:53 oh look, more spam... BOOM gone 08:34:11 well looking forward to check out x4 in 32 & 64bit. 08:34:21 x4 and x64 :) 08:34:32 (on my mxlinux install which is derived from debian) 08:34:48 is mx as good as mint? 08:34:59 I see you've adopted Microsoft numbering schemes.... :-) 08:35:07 ? 08:35:11 mx doesn't use systemd. So, IMHO, better! 08:35:20 i live for systemd lol 08:35:27 boot up is sooooo fast :O( 08:35:29 Microsoft numbering schemes - jumping around higher 08:35:29 :) 08:35:38 on what? 08:35:54 now you wanna talk about something that goes against everything that Unix was intended.... there's systemd. 08:36:38 yea 08:36:39 agreed 08:36:58 one monolithic monster that has everything in it including the kitchen sink 08:37:06 which can make coffee all by itself 08:37:26 it's evil 08:37:50 and the same sumbitch who created that abomination that is pulseaudio too! 08:42:56 I mean 08:42:58 systemd is good 08:43:01 it's just not unix 08:44:03 remexre, don't get me started. it's evil in all respects. worse thing to happen to Linux in the last decade. 08:44:21 yea im not a huge fan of pulse 08:44:34 its a fad it will go away 08:46:01 i use it because its faster is all 08:47:52 idk, I /want/ services to be socket-activated 08:48:07 and user-specific services to exist 08:48:36 and those drag like 90% of systemd along with them, because doing everything the Unix way doesn't mesh well with those goals 08:49:38 (though, nobody seems to hate launchd much, and it's basically the same thing for mach/macos; maybe having ports / being a microkernel makes it work better?) 08:56:06 is iforth and other paid forths worth it or is it better to write your own forth? 08:57:58 lich, depends on what you want to do. seems most people make their own forths for fun, not because they end up being used 08:58:13 i mean that is the point of making 08:58:26 it, but lets return to the first question 08:58:35 cause ive seen some results and iforth is supposedly the fastest 08:58:38 and this is very weird... 08:59:00 speed is not usually forth's strong point 08:59:18 what do you mean by usually 08:59:32 i mean it is the first time i programmed for escapist reasons and well, that happens rarely 08:59:39 you can take a profiler to it and optimize any hotspots 08:59:48 a profiler? 08:59:58 a program that looks at where your program spends its time 09:00:15 so it could tell you, "you spend 1500ms in FOO, and 50ms in BAR" 09:00:27 depends on what you mean by "optimize." a lot of people argue forth being relatively slow doesnt matter because you can optimize by rewriting critical parts in assembly. up to you if you want to wade in that deep 09:00:34 ^^ 09:00:57 exactly that; imo the maximally sane approach is to write "not horribly inefficient code" 99% of the time 09:01:13 and for the 1% of your code where execution speed really matters, consider rewriting it to assembly 09:01:16 vs C where it will probably be much faster without having to ever dip into assembly 09:01:44 but if you dont need maximum speed, forth might be fun since you said youre doing it for escapism 09:01:54 youve come to the right place :P 09:04:21 lich, what are you interested in doing? that might help answer your question 09:04:39 MrMobius: nothing particular just curious 09:05:09 i mean i've said one day i will write open source grand strategy and forth seems to be "fun" choice for game logic 09:05:26 and as much as using a "fun" choice is risky, it guarantees finishing the work 09:06:02 so just writing the logic in forth or the whole game? 09:10:43 or maybe just see how it goes 09:12:28 i mean for sure logic is the msot possible cause graphics programming without sdl and other bindings will be... difficult 09:22:55 i eman i will consider it a grand success if i even start this project 09:23:25 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:23:59 --- join: Keshl joined #forth 09:27:18 you might try starting with a small game and building up to the game you want to make 09:27:26 you could definitely make simple games in forth 09:27:59 I made this game in python then ported it to forth. you can play it in your browser http://calc6502.com/RobotGame/summary.html 09:46:38 MrMobius: huh interesting 09:46:52 i mean generally want to make strategies, could probs start with simple drug wars clone 09:50:55 thats a pretty simple one 09:51:03 if you can find a forth with floating point 09:52:44 gforth has floating point 09:53:08 but also why would you need floating point for dopewars? 09:53:29 ya gforth is good 09:53:47 dont the drug prices vary by a random percentage? 09:54:19 I guess you could figure out the min and max random price at compile time and use integers 09:54:32 but iirc the one I played also had debt that compunded 09:58:54 both of this could work without floating point 09:59:08 i mean starting forth put it like anything that can be done with floating point can be done in fixed point 10:01:11 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 10:03:05 oh also a small qeustion, is there a reliable way of getting a length of an array 10:03:21 cause the first thing i wrote had to iterate over an array and i just end up stating the array length in the loop 10:04:19 https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Old_Russian_measure_of_length#Forth this is my first code 10:06:19 oh shit i made a lil mistake in the comment ahah 10:19:57 ya you can use fixed point 10:20:34 storing the length as the first byte of the array is common 10:33:46 MrMobius: oh so you just do create 4 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 ? 10:33:57 s/create/create array 11:06:50 fucking man 2 does NOT fucking give the man pages for the system calls an y more 11:07:03 fucking idiots are giving the return values for the fucking bullshit libc wappers 11:07:16 more "you dont need to know this" BULLSHIT 11:09:07 yeah, and they've started shipping some syscalls' man pages with the userspace lib for them 11:09:16 all the io_uring ones w/ liburing, namely 11:09:22 mark4: just use openbsd at this point for system dev 11:10:10 i cant use bsd's they are just WRONG lol 11:10:37 but the fucking idiots writing man 2 pages are being dikcheads and giving me FALSE information 11:13:44 --- join: mjl_ joined #forth 11:15:03 mark4: wrong how, compared to gnu/linux 11:15:40 all parameters to systemcalls are passed on the stack not in registers 11:15:51 i see 11:16:00 so the kernel has to find the user space stack pointer to collect the parameters 11:16:03 thats just one thing lol 11:16:09 i dont like bsd's in general 11:16:19 i see you 11:16:20 i dont even really like most linux distros 11:16:32 im kind of hooked on gentoo :) 11:16:48 i mean gentoo is a distro framework 11:17:02 i dotn really see a point in running gentoo on a singel machine 11:17:05 its a dynamic distro :) 11:20:54 --- quit: mjl (*.net *.split) 11:20:57 --- nick: mjl_ -> mjl 11:21:58 --- quit: betrion[m] (Remote host closed the connection) 11:22:00 --- quit: siraben (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:22:03 --- quit: Blue_flame (Write error: Connection reset by peer) 11:22:03 --- quit: alexshpilkin (Write error: Connection reset by peer) 11:22:04 --- quit: litvinof (Remote host closed the connection) 11:22:04 --- quit: jimt[m] (Write error: Connection reset by peer) 11:23:17 --- quit: rpcope (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:25:53 --- join: siraben joined #forth 11:29:20 --- join: rpcope joined #forth 11:34:29 --- join: jimt[m] joined #forth 11:34:29 --- join: litvinof joined #forth 11:34:29 --- join: Blue_flame joined #forth 11:34:35 --- join: alexshpilkin joined #forth 11:34:35 --- join: betrion[m] joined #forth 12:00:06 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:00:29 --- join: Keshl joined #forth 12:26:05 lich, ya you can do that. dont forget the comma on the end 12:41:32 MrMobius: hmm it does not work in mixed arrays 12:56:52 mixed as in characters and integers? if so see c, vs , and c@ vs @ 13:20:39 --- join: reepca joined #forth 14:30:01 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:42:19 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 16:16:45 --- quit: Croran (Remote host closed the connection) 18:48:43 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:48:46 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:48:48 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:57:53 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 19:45:12 --- quit: jedb (Remote host closed the connection) 19:45:28 --- join: jedb joined #forth 21:00:24 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 21:03:25 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 21:31:26 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 21:49:53 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 22:04:43 --- join: cox joined #forth 22:06:16 --- quit: mark4 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:38:06 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 22:38:28 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 23:23:59 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.08.12