00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.06.15 00:37:50 --- join: xek joined #forth 01:08:31 --- quit: reepca (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:56:22 --- join: WilhelmVonWeiner joined #forth 01:58:54 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 02:20:10 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 03:38:49 yunfan: FreeBSD or NetBSD or something uses Forth in its boot sequence 03:39:29 veltas, not any more, freebsd 12.2 uses LUA 03:40:01 Booting from U-Boot should be quite easy, depends what you want to do though 03:40:24 tp: makes sense 04:50:09 veltas: i want a full feature forth 04:50:39 veltas: also there were cellphone bootloaders, could a forth be boot by it? 05:11:27 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 05:47:45 yunfan: u-boot is available on a very wide variety of systems, which one are you using? 05:47:57 --- quit: iyzsong (Quit: ZNC 1.8.0 - https://znc.in) 05:48:40 veltas: i am playing many boards :D 05:48:54 What architecture? 05:48:58 pine64 a64/cubieboard2 rpi zero 05:49:07 also i have a csky board 06:03:56 --- quit: andrei-n (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 06:10:35 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 06:30:07 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 07:12:35 --- join: andrei-n joined #forth 08:12:39 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 08:16:04 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 08:22:28 --- join: jedb joined #forth 09:27:31 --- quit: tangentstorm (Changing host) 09:27:31 --- join: tangentstorm joined #forth 09:50:13 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:25:38 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 12:51:39 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 13:43:08 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:08:55 --- quit: andrei-n (Remote host closed the connection) 14:54:53 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15:08:16 --- join: TCZ joined #forth 15:34:33 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 15:38:52 --- join: Rakko joined #forth 15:40:02 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 16:29:23 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:29:23 --- log: stopped forth/20.06.15 16:41:23 --- log: started forth/20.06.15 16:41:23 --- join: clog joined #forth 16:41:23 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN backup at http://forthworks.com/forth/irc-logs/ | If you have two (or more) stacks and speak RPN then you're welcome here! | https://github.com/mark4th' 16:41:23 --- topic: set by proteusguy!~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th on [Mon Dec 30 10:43:28 2019] 16:41:23 --- names: list (clog Rakko dave0 Zarutian_HTC dddddd proteus-guy WilhelmVonWeiner _whitelogger crest X-Scale boru Vedran nmz presiden guan arrdem MrMobius Croran rprimus Keshl_ +proteusguy klys APic tp crc_ jackdaniel pareidolia cmtptr cantstanya Blue_flame remexre a3f deesix jimt[m] siraben fiddlerwoaroof diginet2 veltas phadthai Chobbes lonjil jhei C-Keen Kumool routeveg rpcope pointfree ovf mjl yunfan Lord_Nightmare dzho neuro_sys tabemann ecraven tangentstorm jn__ cp- tolja) 16:41:23 --- names: list (rann bluekelp ornxka catern djinni irsol nonlinear koisoke patrickg heredoc +crc +KipIngram) 16:44:19 --- quit: Rakko (Quit: Leaving) 16:54:59 in desperation I just asked for help on the libopencm3 irc channel 16:55:24 man ... is embedded C hard, it's amazing that people use it at all 16:56:07 everything is utterly abstracted away, it's a desert as far as hardware deatils are concerned 16:56:09 --- join: jedb joined #forth 16:59:13 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 18:38:59 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 18:45:27 everything? 18:49:19 depends on what youre looking at 18:52:39 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:52:42 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:52:45 --- nick: boru` -> boru 19:00:51 hey guys 19:44:26 --- join: Rakko joined #forth 19:57:30 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 20:03:40 MrMobius, everything 20:03:44 hey tabemann 20:04:52 hey tp 20:07:33 tabemann, how goes things ? 20:08:09 tabemann, you wouldnt belIeve how hard it is to get CTS working under C in a stm32f103 20:08:34 if I was cool on C before, I hate it now 20:08:58 C abstracts the hardware away more than forth does 20:09:08 doing it in Forth is dead easy. easy to impliment, easy to instrument 20:09:09 forth, well, you take the address, and you @ or ! it 20:09:38 C, well, you could do that, but usually everything is hidden away in layers of structs 20:09:46 Ive decided that Forths mission is information hiding 20:10:46 Ive been working on the blackmagic probe source, written in C using libopencm3, and it's a nightmare to me 20:11:24 I think people who have to do that stuff for a living must hate their lives 20:12:09 I know the hardware, I know Forth well enough, but searching thru layers and layers of doxygen doc is frustrating 20:13:02 Embedded C should have been drowned at birth, it's the stillborn mutant spawn of the devil 20:13:44 system C is fine, I use it for pc software 20:14:08 it's probably one of the best choices there 20:17:17 the thing is that for embedded programming by necessity you are close to the hardware 20:17:36 and C acts to abstract that away 20:17:57 it sure does 20:18:10 deliberately, on purpose 20:18:15 it's just insane 20:18:52 USART2 becomes "USART" as tho there four other usarts dont exist on the chip 20:20:32 the abstraction is a gigantic foobar in itself, then you get the contortions and machinations the C system does to provide all that abstraction and the pages of useless comp generated documentation to provide 'apis' with scant info 20:20:57 Forth doesnt have to have any of that 20:21:31 Id have implemented CTS a day ago with Forth 20:24:38 in Forth it's look up the registers, copy them from the svd2forth or just write them directly, then plug in the values 20:24:55 it's all registers and bitfields 20:25:13 yep 20:25:54 as far as config goes 20:26:05 after that you can start on the hll stuff 20:27:22 but ultimately, if you need to, you just look at your original words, and everything's there as is 20:27:36 whereas with C you have to decipher layer upon layer of structs 20:30:29 I'm still not there getting CTS handshaking on a blackmagic probe 20:30:45 code, flash, try, repeat 20:31:08 it's about 20x longer than my Forth dev cycle 20:44:08 I'm looking at https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/blob/master/examples/stm32/l4/stm32l476g-disco/basics/basics.c 20:44:26 and there's like major abstracting things away 20:44:34 yeah 20:44:49 you have to dig thru #defines etc 20:45:38 i'll have to start using GDB to find out what the registers have 20:46:22 one guy on a forumn runs Forth as a RTOS task to debug his C programs! 20:47:48 which RTOS? 20:48:05 dunno, probably freertos 20:49:27 it's a good idea 20:52:52 going to the freertos site is weird 20:53:09 because on one hand their product seems über-commercial 20:53:36 it seems to be very popular in oss embedded 20:53:40 but on the other it's free software 20:54:06 it's pretty much M4 territory tho 20:54:15 too big for a F0 20:57:37 yeah, somehow I imagine it's hard to fit something like anything beyond a minimal IP stack on an F0 (of course, then, Contiki managed to fit an IPv6 stack on machines like the C64) 20:58:49 unlike the f4 the f0 has no ethernet peripheral 20:59:04 if someone wanted ethernet, theyd use a m3 or m4 20:59:24 the f0 isnt designed for any of that stuff 21:00:09 STMicro has hundreds of different model cortex-m, theyre all similar so the designer can just use the one that best suits 21:00:35 no need to make the f0 do stuff beyond it's design 21:13:00 --- join: kevin` joined #forth 21:13:01 back 21:13:58 heh I heard a podcast where they said you need at least 100k for a tcp stack :P 21:14:04 guessing they werent on a c64 21:15:07 my bad 21:15:35 --- quit: Rakko (Quit: Leaving) 21:17:32 I mean Im saying the guys on the podcast were not 100% accurate 21:17:40 Contiki provides multitasking and a built-in Internet Protocol Suite (TCP/IP stack), yet needs only about 10 kilobytes of random-access memory (RAM) and 30 kilobytes of read-only memory (ROM).[1] A full system, including a graphical user interface, needs about 30 kilobytes of RAM.[5] 21:18:40 I have a PIC chip here with tcp facilities, it makes a very slow webserver 21:24:27 okay, I should get to bed 21:24:49 (I'm falling asleep anyways) 21:24:54 g'night guys 21:25:26 tabemann, night 21:27:21 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 22:21:02 --- quit: kevin` (Remote host closed the connection) 22:49:23 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 23:07:45 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23:38:40 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 23:49:22 --- join: jedb joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.06.15