00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.06.14 02:48:51 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 02:48:51 --- log: stopped forth/20.06.14 02:49:06 --- log: started forth/20.06.14 02:49:06 --- join: clog joined #forth 02:49:06 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN backup at http://forthworks.com/forth/irc-logs/ | If you have two (or more) stacks and speak RPN then you're welcome here! | https://github.com/mark4th' 02:49:06 --- topic: set by proteusguy!~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th on [Mon Dec 30 10:43:28 2019] 02:49:06 --- names: list (clog iyzsong gravicappa Zarutian_HTC| reepca jsoft boru X-Scale jedb_ _whitelogger guan arrdem MrMobius dys Croran rprimus Keshl_ proteus-guy +proteusguy klys APic crest tp crc_ jackdaniel pareidolia cmtptr cantstanya Blue_flame remexre a3f deesix jimt[m] siraben fiddlerwoaroof diginet2 veltas phadthai WilhelmVonWeiner Chobbes lonjil2 jhei Vedran C-Keen Kumool routeveg rpcope pointfree ovf mjl yunfan Lord_Nightmare dzho neuro_sys tabemann ecraven tangentstorm) 02:49:06 --- names: list (jn__ cp- tolja rann bluekelp ornxka catern djinni presiden nmz irsol nonlinear koisoke patrickg heredoc +crc +KipIngram) 03:29:19 --- quit: iyzsong (Quit: ZNC 1.8.0 - https://znc.in) 03:49:15 --- nick: jedb_ -> jedb 04:40:13 --- quit: nmz (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 04:40:28 --- nick: lonjil2 -> lonjil 04:40:32 --- quit: WilhelmVonWeiner (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 04:40:34 --- quit: presiden (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 04:48:36 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:50:46 the really important thing with open stlink is that they have a 'code of conduct'. Code quality is secondary to that 04:51:13 tabemann, the really important thing with open stlink is that they have a 'code of conduct'. Code quality is secondary to that 06:54:43 --- log: started forth/20.06.14 06:54:43 --- join: clog joined #forth 06:54:43 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN backup at http://forthworks.com/forth/irc-logs/ | If you have two (or more) stacks and speak RPN then you're welcome here! | https://github.com/mark4th' 06:54:43 --- topic: set by proteusguy!~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th on [Mon Dec 30 10:43:28 2019] 06:54:43 --- names: list (clog dddddd gravicappa Zarutian_HTC| reepca boru X-Scale jedb _whitelogger guan arrdem MrMobius dys Croran rprimus Keshl_ proteus-guy +proteusguy klys APic crest tp crc_ jackdaniel pareidolia cmtptr cantstanya Blue_flame remexre a3f deesix jimt[m] siraben fiddlerwoaroof diginet2 veltas phadthai Chobbes lonjil jhei Vedran C-Keen Kumool routeveg rpcope pointfree ovf mjl yunfan Lord_Nightmare neuro_sys tabemann dzho ecraven tangentstorm jn__ cp- tolja rann bluekelp) 06:54:43 --- names: list (ornxka catern djinni irsol nonlinear koisoke +KipIngram +crc heredoc patrickg) 07:09:39 --- join: TCZ joined #forth 07:21:02 --- join: presiden joined #forth 07:44:10 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 09:00:16 --- join: nmz joined #forth 09:59:25 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC| (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:13:21 --- quit: Vedran (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io) 10:14:38 --- join: Vedran joined #forth 10:48:47 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 10:55:28 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 11:20:24 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:37:08 --- join: dys joined #forth 13:01:00 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 13:30:10 --- quit: reepca (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:30:40 --- join: reepca joined #forth 14:14:23 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 14:14:31 --- join: TCZ joined #forth 14:47:27 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 15:32:56 tp: they don't support third party code calling their precious shared library *eye* *rolling* 15:33:45 but the openocd documentation far from ideal 15:34:17 as far as i can tell they do offer access to registers and sram but only over a line based text protocol 15:35:03 and it looks like they're attempting to create the "egg-laying, milk-bearing woolly sow" 15:35:25 (i don't know the correct translation of eierlegendewollmilchsau to english) 15:36:26 tabemann: would it work for you to rename your makefile to GNUmakefile? 15:36:41 afaik gmake looks for that name before Makefile 15:37:21 that would enable you to use the shell builtin to discover the right name (libstlink vs libstlink-shared) 15:44:18 back 15:45:14 * tabemann versteht "Eierlegendemilchsau" 15:45:36 you could do that 15:57:06 * tabemann just renamed "Makefile" to "GNUmakefile" in his code 15:58:20 tabemann: and i got rid of endian.h 16:02:25 hopefully we'll be able to unify swd2.c 16:02:29 tabemann: please try the latest version of swdcom on linux 16:03:32 gcc doesn't recognize -Weverything 16:03:36 and anyways that's overkill 16:03:41 not for development 16:04:04 but yes this should go behind a DEBUG=1 16:07:28 on my end it failed horribly when compiled with -Wall IIRC 16:07:36 how? 16:07:44 lots and lots of nonsensical errors 16:07:47 ? 16:07:52 and it worked just fine when compiled 16:08:12 how could it work after hitting a compiler *error*? 16:09:13 I mean, after I removed the warning setting 16:09:34 -Weverything ist clang specific 16:09:55 you used some different warning setting before 16:10:34 yes but that was a few days ago :-P 16:10:36 scnr 16:10:46 -Wall -Wextra should be fine 16:11:54 okay, I'm going to have dinner now 16:11:56 bbl 16:29:15 i added a little bit to make gcc and gmake happy 16:29:31 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 16:33:15 at least it builds with CC=gcc and gmake on freebsd 16:36:59 tabemann: i got some useful feedback from FUZxxl about even shorter instruction sequences with more 16bit opcodes 17:45:14 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:47:49 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 17:55:19 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Quit: Bye) 17:56:54 back 17:57:36 tabemann, only 8pm! you finish tea early ? ;-) 17:57:46 lol 17:58:24 I installed debian 10.4 last night on a spare pc so I could compile blackmagicprobe 17:58:52 debian failed at the HDD and asked me for a ISCSI and Im like WTF, and cursed it to high hell 17:59:26 then I had an epiphany and looked inside the pc ... no hdd 18:00:21 after that it was plain sailing, compiled BMP and it's working. Im just about to add RTS so I can use the virtual terminal for my serial connection 18:01:14 but I gotta say, the C code in that is pretty frightening, I've no idea how people actually work with that stuff 18:01:25 https://pastebin.com/9rYYZeQT 18:01:47 laced with library stuff and conditionals for every stm mcu under the sun 18:02:19 crest: you need to get rid of that warning stuff 18:02:26 i did 18:02:39 that's what I ran like one minute ago 18:02:40 have you pulled in the last few minutes? 18:03:08 yeah, it's up to date 18:03:38 did you change anything e.g. delete time.h? 18:03:54 cc -O2 -pipe -std=c99 -Wall -Wextra -Wno-unknown-pragmas -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include/stlink -I/usr/include/libusb-1.0 -L/usr/local/lib -o swd2 swd2.c -lstlink 18:04:04 i think i found the problem 18:04:15 linux requires sys/timespec.h 18:04:18 I just changed -lstlink-shared to -lstlink and added -I/usr/include/libusb-1.0 18:07:55 tabemann: please try again 18:09:14 I got the problem 18:09:23 it's --std=c99 18:09:35 why is that a problem? 18:09:39 gcc doesn't define struct timespec by default when that's set 18:09:53 it does on freebsd because the system headers a different 18:09:58 why I haven't a clue 18:10:31 let's add the required includes and keep -std=c99 18:11:00 but why isn't sys/stat.h enough to define S_IFMT and friends? 18:11:40 let's add sys/types.h 18:12:31 I say strip out everything not essential to compiling the code 18:12:46 warnings, standard settings, defines, all of it 18:12:56 please try again 18:13:43 no, it doesn't like sys/timespec.h 18:13:59 which operating system are you running? 18:14:04 Debian 18:14:21 the official solution is to add a particular define 18:14:36 but I'd rather just eliminate -std=c99 because it's unnecessary 18:14:36 guess i have to spin up a debian vm 18:14:54 the defaults are gnu89 or gnu99 depending on the gcc version 18:15:15 and i really don't want to support c89 or gnu89 18:19:41 this is what I had to execute to make it all work: 18:19:42 cc -O2 -pipe -std=c99 -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=199309L -D_DEFAULT_SOURCE -Wall -Wextra -Wno-unknown-pragmas -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include/stlink -I/usr/include/libusb-1.0 -L/usr/local/lib -o swd2 swd2.c -lstlink 18:20:07 damn you gcc and damn you glibc 18:20:13 and damn you debian 18:20:56 -D_DEFAULT_SOURCE was needed for the S_IFMT stuff and usleep 18:20:57 that breaks the build on freebsd 18:21:58 which operating systems are the broken ones? 18:22:15 on the other hand, eliminating -std=c99 eliminates the need for those defines 18:22:42 damn it i followed the opengroup docs 18:23:05 so then the only thing that should break freebsd is the use of -lstlink 18:23:23 which stlink version did you install? 18:23:32 I'm on 1.6.0 right now 18:23:38 compiled from source 18:23:43 okay because i'm still on 1.5.0 18:23:53 because 1.6.0 was never packaged for freebsd 18:23:58 and 1.6.1 is too broken 18:24:02 it's 1.6.1 which breaks things horribly, not 1.6.0 18:25:49 yeah 1.6.1 is an embarrassing release 18:26:13 it's embarrasing that the developers defend it pointlessly 18:26:32 well they explained how it happend 18:26:39 like seriously, if you don't want people using your shared library... don't make one 18:26:43 but stink has a 'code of conduct' !!! so theyre the best! 18:27:01 codes of conduct can go to hell 18:27:04 tp: please let's not start this flamewar 18:27:16 a code of conduct has valid uses 18:27:28 but it can't replace quality code 18:27:44 tabemann, I'm with you here 18:28:09 ill leave you guys to it 18:29:12 codes of conduct don't replace being a developer who listens to one's users, who tries not to break things, who fixes things when they inevitably get fucked up, who is not a stuckup asshole, and so n 18:31:41 anyways 18:34:13 saying "we don't support X" to every complaint reflexively is a good example of the kind of thing that gets me, code of conduct or not 18:36:57 ok I found where to add RTS flow control to BMP 18:37:03 almost there 18:37:36 BMP? 18:38:08 tabemann, times have changed, once FLOSS developers would respond with thanks for a bug report and fix it right away 18:38:17 Blackmagic probe 18:38:23 ah 18:38:46 tabemann, it uses libopencm3 18:39:05 tabemann, and at least it compiles under debian 10 18:39:20 * tabemann would be happy that someone was actually using his software to the point that they could produce a bug report 18:39:36 tabemann, it fails badly under FreeBSD and openindiana 18:39:45 tabemann, exactly 18:41:38 once I have RTS on the BMP then I have a virtual term plus a virtual gdb server on the one USB connection 18:41:51 and it's ready to use in my existing system 18:42:14 no need for stlink or swd on the pc 18:42:27 all I need on the pc is gdb etc 18:43:36 then my bluepill equivalent simply replaces my $0.99 usb-3.3v dongle 18:44:55 right now the only issues I'm having are that I can't use stlink 1.6.1 18:45:43 I haven't had any problems with serial aside from the lack of RTS/CTS 18:53:32 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:53:35 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:53:37 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:58:39 well you have your ack/nak thingie ? 18:59:04 you dont need CTS on the target, all thats needed is RTS 18:59:21 ack/nak works fine for me with e4thcom 18:59:26 the target cant send faster than a PC can receive 18:59:35 do you want RTS ? 18:59:53 I'll get it going on the F407 if you want it 19:00:01 the problem is that the USB-serial dongle I have doesn't support RTS anyways 19:00:08 oh yeah 19:00:10 tp: or just ignore the bug report 19:00:13 I forgOt 19:00:23 and close it years later as "overcome by events" 19:00:41 crest, what are you on about ? 19:00:57 tabemann, times have changed, once FLOSS developers would respond with thanks for a bug report and fix it right away 19:01:20 well times have changed 19:01:32 e.g. mozilla has bugs that are over a decade old and still not fixed 19:01:47 people used to develop because they loved it, now many just want to be leet and cool programmers 19:02:27 * tabemann programs for his own purposes because he likes creating stuff, while he programs at work because he needs a job 19:02:59 crest, mozilla was always like that iirc, hardly a bastion of dedicated programmers, probably too commercial and always pushed to deliver with short timeframes ? 19:03:29 my job is all about short timeframes 19:03:47 tabemann, yeah your hobby work is awesome, youre easy to work with and consider all comments 19:04:04 tabemann, sign of the times at work ? 19:04:50 at least here on #forth people care about good programming, good code :) 19:04:57 at work they have the philosophy that if they set an amount of time to be set in a period, it will get done regardless of how big or small that period is, so they might as well make it really small so they can get more stuff done 19:05:00 FUZxxl reviewed my terminal.s and came up with a patch to decrease the code size even further 19:05:08 #forth keeps the old ways alive 19:05:13 crest, cool1 19:05:20 https://github.com/Crest/swdcom/commit/fbeb58cb78524407804d2799fcc7daa0e32aef4c 19:05:34 it made the code slightly harder to read 19:05:58 --- join: jedb joined #forth 19:06:47 --- quit: proteus-guy (Remote host closed the connection) 19:07:16 * tabemann doesn't exactly understand what uxtb does 19:07:34 crest, have you considered using the blackmagic probe code on a bluepill as am all in one interface for swdcom ? 19:07:41 the 16bit version zero extends the lower 8 bits of the source to 32 bit 19:07:43 am = an 19:08:02 tp: i haven't looked at the blackmagic code 19:08:16 crest, that way people wont need to compile swdcom for their os 19:08:42 crest, it has the swd (and jtag) stuff 19:08:57 the thing with the blackmagic probe is that it requires separate hardware 19:09:10 i.e. the probe itself 19:09:29 crest, in fact you could do the swd interface to a virtual com port and people could just use a serial terminal of their choice 19:09:29 like I'd have to go and buy a blue pill and then arrange for it to be flashed 19:09:53 tabemann, thats true and one downside 19:09:55 it would be nice to use a blue pill as usb modem for swdcom 19:10:24 crest see: https://kazlauskas.me/entries/black-magic-driven-development.html 19:10:40 but reusing the stlink/v2 has other advantages 19:10:51 crest, but youll probably need debian to develop it 19:11:24 crest, and once developed you can reflash a stlink/v2 with the binary 19:11:29 it allows me to have a single always connected device that's used as console and programmer 19:11:59 tabemann, that's the other option, the binary can reflast the SWD programmer on a discovery or nucleo 19:12:15 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 19:12:25 tabemann, so you wouldnt need a bluepill at all 19:12:53 and writing to flash requires a lot deeper knowledge about the chip than swdcom and its terminal.s 19:12:55 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 19:13:10 sure 19:13:11 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 19:13:23 as far as i can tell it stlink flashs the device by writing a bootloader into sram 19:13:41 ththe BMP has a virtual GDB server and you can flash with that 19:13:48 and one of the goals of swdcom was to get a fast "universal" console 19:14:05 crest, only on V2.1 19:14:06 back 19:14:10 ? 19:14:36 crest V2 just uses the on board stm32f103 swd interface to flash 19:14:55 crest, V2.1 does the ram upload stuff 19:15:09 V2.1 is crap, I wont use it 19:15:12 i use the stlink v2-1 on the nucleo 19:15:23 it's all about DND flashing for GUI users 19:15:33 that's what they must've broken 19:15:46 and a stlink clone for the for blue pill 19:15:51 tabemann: yes 19:16:05 sadly STM is catering for arduino users now 19:16:20 they added support for new chips and broke some (most?) already supported chips 19:16:27 I guess if it sells .... 19:16:43 isn't that what nucleo is? 19:16:44 with usb mass storage upload? 19:17:15 (i.e. trying to cater to the damned arduino people) 19:17:37 tabemann, yeah, plus nucleo is absolutely min cost 19:18:30 I looked for a STM programming example for their TSC touch screen sensor recently, the current one is all GUI, no real code 19:19:03 it's all click this setting, click that setting, click build, flash to target 19:19:20 I hate looking for source examples online 19:19:31 yeah, it's difficult 19:19:33 because it's all "use this API" or "use that API" 19:19:44 when I want to see "write into these bits in that register" 19:20:04 i find the best (tho often incomplete) examples are at the very end of the STM technical reference manuals 19:20:13 AAAARRRGGGHHHHH 19:20:18 theyre in C, but it's readable 19:20:20 was ist los? 19:21:23 ahh, finally building the Libopencm3 doc on the debian box 19:22:02 it's all well and good having libraries but if there is no API doc, one cant use them! 19:22:41 i'm tempted to go looking for the openocd ftdi232h code implementing swd 19:22:57 and use that in bitbanging mode 19:23:37 crest I believe FTDI have a free but closed JTAG library 19:23:53 rdrop-exit here uses it 19:26:51 looks like someone else came up with a similar idea: https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/tools/j-link-swo-viewer/ 19:28:04 right now I'm just going to stick with 1.6.0 19:28:12 everything else seems more complicated and more difficult 19:29:04 but it looks like this uses optional parts of the debug hardware 19:30:29 and its unidirectional 19:30:35 just target -> host 19:34:49 yeah everything seems like either doesn't do everything we'd want, or is more elaborate, or requires purchasing more hardware and configuring it, or all of the above 19:35:30 i'm not against purchasing hardware as long as it isn't to expensive or hard to get 19:37:08 my problem is not the money but the wait 19:37:23 and I don't want to spend even more money on amazon prime 19:37:41 e.g. a ftid232h cable wouldn't be too hard to get (in germany) 19:38:21 gn8 19:38:31 unless it has a counterfeit chip in it, and ftdi's next windows update bricks it 19:38:35 nacht 19:38:45 yeah, counterfit is a real problem 19:39:15 and ftdi's bricking of counterfeit chips is why I won't buy from them 19:39:46 that was the stupidest move ever, it hurt them badly 19:40:11 the BMP has all kinds of SWD tips, even a SWD reader 19:40:25 I think it's worth a look 19:41:07 and genuine STM32F103s can be bought via various reliable channels 19:41:20 just not on ebay or aliexpress 19:41:39 I have 20 brand new genuine STM32F103's 19:41:43 i.e. one of STMicroelectronic's official dealers 19:41:52 tabemann, right 19:42:22 but mouser, avenet, arrow electronics are all reliable 19:42:29 yes] 19:42:58 just dont buy from asian companies if you dont want fakes 19:43:30 my STM32F103's came from AVENET 19:43:37 in texs 19:43:38 buy from companies who source their components directly from STM 19:43:41 Texas 19:43:59 yes, as you say one of STMicroelectronic's official dealers 19:45:10 ok rebuilding BMP with RTS enabled on the usart, will it work ? 19:45:21 we shall see! 19:45:29 it's abig build 19:45:57 C stuff is MASSIVE 19:46:15 the code is like a mad womans breakfast 19:46:31 how doe people work with this stuff, it cant be any fun 19:46:36 I feel tainted already 19:47:00 how does it even fit on an f103? 19:47:33 it needs 100KB of flash 19:47:49 and they all have 128 even if they dont advertise it 19:48:01 ah 19:48:03 so plenty of space 19:48:14 I was wondering, I thought the f103 had 64K of flash 19:48:41 the R8 model has 128KB 19:48:56 I see 19:48:58 but so does the 64 KB model, it's the worst kept secret 19:49:38 at some point STM used the die from the larger model in the smaller model and then set the flash size register to 64KB instead of 128KB 19:49:51 thinking no one would notice 19:50:22 and apps like stlink read that register so it think that only 64KB is available 19:50:32 cheaper for them than actually having to maintain two sets of masks 19:50:39 one just changes the stlink config 19:50:46 exactly 19:51:12 build hasnt bombed yet :) 19:51:28 good luck... 19:51:34 the debian machine is on a dual core amd slowpoke 'hp-miniserver' 19:51:55 well I followed the API that it was built with 19:52:38 honestly, it's so easy to configure RTS in assembler, I dont see the purpose for all this massive C palaver 19:52:51 easier in Forth 19:53:23 it's because stuff in C tends to be overengineered 19:53:26 but Ive learnt a lesson, build Linux stuff on a Linux pc, it's infinitely easier 19:53:52 forget trying to cross build, it's a frigging nightmare 19:54:04 especiall where Linux is involved 19:54:11 and I've learned from trying to build crest's code that trying to compile FreeBSD code on Linux is a nightmare 19:54:19 Exactly 19:54:28 it's a road to madness 19:54:40 even though I don't get why he insists on some things like -std=c99 and all the warnigns 19:54:54 thats why I recommend a BMP for his idea 19:55:16 no OS involvement 19:55:49 you just flash a binary to a blue pill (or equivalent, and there are plenty) and it's done 19:56:04 his code works fine provided one set up the proper build settings (no -std=c99) and one uses 1.6.0 not 1.6.1 19:56:38 thats why the BMP exists, people on windows, linux,mac,bsd all had trouble with openocd and gbd etc 19:57:05 one BMP fixed all those problems 19:57:19 hah it built! 19:57:23 now to test! 19:57:29 cool 19:58:23 Im thinking of moving to openindiana ... because I like it so much, but no stlink or openocd. But with a bmp I dont need them 20:01:17 * tabemann is sticking with Debian because there are certain programs he uses (e.g. Discord) that he isn't sure would be available on BSD or openindiana 20:02:14 oh yeah, all good reasons 20:02:45 I have a Linux box for Linux stuff now and Im keeping it as is 20:06:01 I don't like change when it comes to computing environments 20:07:07 okay, I'm falling asleep so I'm gonna hit the sack 20:07:26 g'night 20:07:50 night0! 21:18:24 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 21:21:24 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 21:27:34 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 21:50:56 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:21:38 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22:43:14 --- quit: crest (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) 22:46:02 --- join: crest joined #forth 22:56:08 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 23:42:24 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection) 23:43:40 hi guys, i was thinking if there were some forth which could be boot by u-boot? 23:45:25 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth 23:53:35 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 23:54:02 --- join: andrei-n joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.06.14