00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.05.27 00:13:10 --- join: dys joined #forth 00:17:29 --- quit: reepca (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:17:45 --- join: reepca joined #forth 00:37:33 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:03:05 --- join: xek__ joined #forth 01:08:10 --- join: reepca` joined #forth 01:08:26 --- quit: reepca (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:09:53 --- part: antaoiseach left #forth 01:20:29 --- quit: siraben (*.net *.split) 01:20:29 --- quit: tangentstorm (*.net *.split) 01:28:28 --- join: tangentstorm joined #forth 01:32:57 --- join: siraben joined #forth 03:32:25 --- quit: cantstanya (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:35:37 --- join: cantstanya joined #forth 03:50:30 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 04:23:39 --- quit: crest (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) 04:28:27 --- join: crest joined #forth 04:28:39 --- join: xek joined #forth 04:29:02 --- quit: xek__ (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 04:29:41 --- quit: xek (Remote host closed the connection) 04:55:02 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 05:18:05 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 05:19:16 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:19:16 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 05:33:57 --- nick: boru` -> boru 05:57:53 --- quit: iyzsong (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 05:58:55 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 06:06:03 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 06:06:37 --- join: andrei_n joined #forth 06:07:04 --- quit: andrei-n (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 06:20:16 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:33:25 --- quit: andrei_n (Quit: Leaving) 06:34:22 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 06:54:19 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 07:24:36 --- join: antaoiseach joined #forth 07:24:36 --- quit: antaoiseach (Client Quit) 07:25:30 --- join: antaoiseach joined #forth 07:47:59 --- quit: antaoiseach (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 07:50:09 --- join: antaoiseach joined #forth 07:54:53 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 07:55:32 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:55:48 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 08:04:18 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 08:40:31 --- part: antaoiseach left #forth 08:49:49 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:43:26 --- join: andrei-n joined #forth 12:09:14 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 12:17:40 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:18:09 --- quit: tp (Remote host closed the connection) 12:18:13 --- join: tp_ joined #forth 12:24:08 i'm looking for an article, it was someone breaking through the a network using forth. I can't find it anymore 12:37:16 tabemann: should you get the networks calculator please document what's missing to make mecrisp useable on it 12:38:00 as in a truly low power sleep mode, keyboard input and fast enough display 12:38:00 --- nick: tp_ -> tp 12:38:13 maybe usb host mode for external keyboards 12:38:38 crest, tabemann has ordered a numworks calc 12:38:56 i'm tempted to order one as well 12:39:23 * tp is watching Crew Demo-2 bbl 12:43:38 --- join: forthen joined #forth 12:56:23 crest, I've started a page to document Forth upload speeds ... https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/forth-upload-speed.html#forth-upload-speed 12:56:58 i have not yet tried uploads 12:57:12 so far i only implemented transfers from the stm32f103 to the host 12:57:17 not the other way around 12:58:01 and iirc changeing the clock speed didn't help much for "words" 12:58:38 you also use a STM32F103 which is pretty fast, must have been very impressive in it's day 12:59:22 in my case I can see that uploads at 72MHz are faster than 48MHz, but I'll add a proper timer soon 12:59:28 i suspect that the core speed is pretty irrelevant because the debugging hardware is limited by the swd clock speed and the the stlink firmware 12:59:58 sure compiling code is heavly core frequency dependent 13:00:41 until you run into flash write speed limits for trivial things like just lots of constants via , 13:01:52 sure 13:02:40 I think I ran into M0 core limitations at 115200 but I try everything I can for extra speed 13:03:47 i suspect that for compilation my approach won't help much because it its not serial i/o bound 13:04:18 if it helps it's probably just the ring buffer and you could have the same gain by putting a ring buffer between key?/key and the usart 13:04:54 after the usart has a very fast sync mode with dma that should at least reach 10Mb/s 13:04:59 *after all 13:05:46 crest, only if dma was used with the usart 13:06:41 i remeber abusing that once upon a time in university. i had to add crc based framing and a parity *byte* because i got to close to the theoretical bandwidth 13:06:58 crest, I suspect Im near optimum upload speeds for a M0 atm, I was suprised to see my IDE is actually faster uploading than Tachyon Forth with a 200mhz cpu and all the frills 13:07:10 and they refused to add a rs485 transceiver on each end 13:07:44 damn their scaly hides! 13:08:22 the crc32 hardware was fast enough 13:09:03 but the poor sob who had to add dma from spi to crc and usart wanted to kill them 13:09:23 but he did implement my crazy atm inspired idea and it worked 13:10:40 to push 9,x Mb/s video data through the usart over too damn long unshielded cables 13:10:57 I have a certain 'slowness' trigger point for all my development stuff and as long as I'm above that I'm happy. I cant stand repetitive delays 13:11:01 just because "it worked single ended before" 13:11:06 thats pretty cool 13:11:35 sadly i wasn't allowed to keep a copy of the code 13:12:22 but i remeber that he had do something strange to the dma controller to duplicate the stream from the spi to the crc and usart at the same time 13:12:52 I've only ever used dma once I think, and that was with a GCC adc demo years ago 13:12:52 because there wasn't enough sram to keep two frames of video 13:13:20 the only speed I need is uploading, everything else is usually orders of magnitude more than I need 13:13:59 if you want to play with my slow working prototype i can send you the host side c code as well 13:14:27 (the one that uses as single 32bit word for everything) 13:18:07 no thanks, I don't have enough experience to do anything with it, plus I'm busy on my own projects right now 13:18:40 I do look forward to your updates as you develop it tho 13:33:57 --- quit: forthen (Quit: Connection closed) 13:34:06 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:34:23 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 13:39:20 --- join: Zarutian_HTC| joined #forth 13:39:21 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:41:07 --- nick: Zarutian_HTC| -> Zarutian_HTC 14:05:22 --- join: TCZ joined #forth 14:12:04 --- nick: TCZ -> DoomSlayer2020 14:23:32 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 14:23:58 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 14:40:12 --- quit: andrei-n (Quit: Leaving) 14:56:52 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:56:58 --- join: Keshl_ joined #forth 15:05:59 --- nick: Keshl_ -> Keshl 16:09:43 --- quit: DoomSlayer2020 (Quit: Leaving) 16:19:22 --- quit: reepca` (Remote host closed the connection) 17:28:19 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:28:51 --- join: karswell_ joined #forth 17:29:46 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:31:18 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 17:50:23 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 17:53:50 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 18:00:43 --- join: reepca joined #forth 18:14:47 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:14:50 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:14:52 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:34:50 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 18:51:36 hey guys 18:57:43 hey tabemann, I finished my bit@ page and I've flashed your latest Zeptoforth 18:57:56 how'd it turn out? 18:58:51 youve implimented the bit@ words so you know all about them 18:58:55 https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/bit-testing.html#bit-testing 18:59:49 Ive started testing compatibility with Zeptoforth and my libraries and it's looking good 19:00:11 bbit@, hbit@, and bit@ as I implemented them return -1 if any masked bit is 1 19:00:13 tabemann, what word controls compiling to flash ? 19:00:21 compile-to-flash 19:00:28 and compile-to-ram 19:00:34 i see I'm compiling to ram by default 19:00:39 yes 19:00:46 there's also compiling-to-flash? 19:00:57 so my next step is to see if I can load a ton of dev words 19:01:01 ah yes 19:01:10 I can remember those :) 19:01:19 if you want to load lots of code, I suggest compiling to flash 19:01:27 Zeptoforth is looking good so far 19:01:34 yeah, of course 19:01:39 1MB of flash 19:01:41 I remember recently I just tried to load some test code, and it took up like $D00 19:01:53 and it seemed like the code itself was pretty small 19:02:02 this was compiling to ram 19:02:11 for some reason compiling to flash seems more efficient 19:02:19 ill be writing some Forth code and testing it then dissasembling and adding to your kernel code 19:02:30 if you have compressing mode enabled 19:02:59 well there is just a lot more flash, 1MB vs 190KB of ram on my F407 iirc 19:03:04 because compressing mode turns off the padding after each word unless you call commit-flash 19:03:18 hmm 19:03:31 thats new to me 19:03:51 note that if you want to refer to a word compiled since the last commit-flash, you should do another commit-flash 19:04:06 I dont want to fit everything in the flash anyway, just the peripherals I'll be developing for 19:04:33 ill probably be fine with non compression 19:04:48 if I run into problems I'll try it 19:05:26 my first effort is to add RTS handshaking as you know 19:05:28 compress-flash (followed when done by end-compress-flash) can save significant amounts of space when compiling many words 19:06:07 if I get it working I'll send you a patch for 0.5.4 19:06:21 cool 19:06:37 oh ok, I'll test compress-flash and see what I get 19:06:58 I have tons of ready made words I can play with 19:07:21 and remember to use commit-flash if you're using compress-flash 19:07:47 see-for-gas looks awesome, I'll be using that soon I hope 19:08:09 ok, I've made a note of that, thanks 19:10:02 and you have to have to use end-compress-flash when you're done, as if you reboot without compiling anything more to flash afterwards, your code won't show up when you reboot 19:10:29 got it 19:11:01 I'm used to 10001 screw ups, it's no biggie 19:11:14 I learn by screwing up 19:11:28 in essence compress-flash disables padding at the end of words and the DEADBEEF marker indicating the end of the last word in flash 19:11:59 how does Mecrisp-Stellaris tell the end of the dictionary ? 19:12:07 you use DEADBEEF 19:12:10 the padding is to ensure that the flash write buffer gets dumped out to flash, due to the block size of the flash 19:12:31 well I know how Mecrisp-Stellaris does it from my ihex words 19:12:43 ahh, flash again! 19:12:44 how does Mecrisp-Stellaris do it? 19:12:59 it looks for the last BL etc 19:13:53 also, at the end of the last word, there is a pointer to the head of the last word 19:13:56 tabemann, now crest is threatening to buy a Numworks calculator 19:14:13 I don't remember if compress-flash removes that 19:14:34 so I saw about :) 19:14:53 tabemann, youve started a thing ... 19:15:31 well it's a neat calculator that just happens to need a neat kernel and operating environment 19:15:44 :D 19:15:45 it is neat hardware 19:16:03 tabemann, plus Ive started documenting forth upload speeds 19:16:21 https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/forth-upload-speed.html#forth-upload-speed 19:17:05 it's made me realise that Mecrisp-Stellaris needs a in-kernel Systick to be useful 19:17:36 so I'll make one up in assembly and begin the long process of trying to persuade matthias to include it 19:18:12 hmm zeptoforth has a systick but not an in-kernel one 19:19:38 but its systick is sufficiently light-weight that it should function fine IMO 19:23:17 a systick facility would be very handy for timings 19:23:34 and it needs to be in the kernel to work at boot up 19:24:21 it's a small thing, but I think a essential tool 19:25:40 in zeptoforth, once compiled in, it's initialized at boot time 19:26:30 yeah 19:26:53 oh 19:27:15 whereas Mecrisp-Stellaris need a init word 19:27:30 well zeptoforth does use an init word 19:27:49 when the kernel boots, it searchs the dictionary for the last word named "init" and then executes it 19:35:47 or do you mean that he user has to invoke an initialization word manually? 19:39:51 no, it's the same as you 19:40:09 if 'init' is there it will be executed at bootup 19:43:18 I just checked the banlist for some reason, and noticed there were a ton of people all banned within the same second on May 11th, 2020 19:44:30 the channel banlist ? 19:44:36 yeah 19:47:59 probably a list was uploaded or something like that ? 19:48:41 or perhaps freenode has some auto banner ? 19:50:05 something like that 19:50:15 maybe it was a bot maintaining its own banlist 19:50:24 maybe 19:50:24 like ChanServ 19:50:38 no end of trolls that need banning tho 19:51:11 it's ongoing, kinda sad really that some people waste their lives and the lives of others that way 19:51:21 yeah 19:52:19 it may have just banned ip's with some bonafide problem 19:52:44 so when soes the Numworks arrive ? 19:52:47 does 19:54:11 it says it's "on its way" today, doesn't give an arrival date ATM 19:54:42 wow, stuff happens so fast in the USA 19:55:20 see the inaugural Demo2 flight was scrubbed due to weather ? 19:55:31 so I hear 19:55:44 only had 30 minutes to lift off remaining 19:56:03 moved to saturday 4pm ET 19:56:17 yeah I heard that too 19:56:37 I guess the whole world has :) 20:00:06 okay, by on its way they seem to mean that it has left the warehouse and not reached USPS yet... even though that means that by this point they have reached USPS but have not updated their tracking yet 20:01:23 usual stuff 20:02:00 i was pleased to see that my print formatting all worked fine on Zeptoforth 20:02:32 makes it easy to test the rest of my setup 20:18:34 nice 20:21:40 good work :) 20:25:28 if one sticks to ANS it shouldn't be hard to write compatible code, aside from a few words named differently like b@ b! b, rather than c@ c! c, 20:25:46 which for some reason I decided to name differently - lol 20:27:10 (well, it's because I didn't want to imply that characters were one byte long, because in this day and age of UTF-8 they're not) 20:32:16 easy for a user to alter if they want 20:35:27 okay, I'm gonna hit the sack now 20:35:30 g'night 20:36:20 nighto! 21:11:54 --- quit: reepca (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 21:35:36 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 22:42:33 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 23:09:28 --- quit: va_ (Remote host closed the connection) 23:24:55 --- join: reepca joined #forth 23:49:53 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC (Read error: No route to host) 23:50:06 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.05.27