00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.05.05
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00:41:49 <merkc0> : D>$ ( d -- addr len) TUCK DABS <# #S ROT SIGN #> ;
00:41:50 <merkc0> : N>$ ( n -- addr len ) S>D D>$ ;
00:41:50 <merkc0> 25 N>$ TYPE \ correctly outputs 25
00:41:50 <merkc0> CR
00:41:50 <merkc0> 25 N>$ 1 . TYPE \ gives wrong output: 21 instead of 25
00:42:43 <merkc0> what's a good way (that doesn't require variables) to save the resulting string from N>$   , do some other actions, then TYPE that string ?
00:50:59 <patrickg> N>$ probably stores in a common buffer, so the "1 ." partially overwrites that ("." is probably akin to "N>$ type" itself). if you want to save the string, you have to decide where to put it
00:58:46 <merkc0> okay
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04:12:15 <merkc0> how to check if a vocabulary already exists ?
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04:51:59 <DKordic> https://xkcd.com/1856/
04:52:58 <tp> haha
04:55:33 <DKordic> tp: https://xkcd.com/378/
05:00:04 <tp> DKordic, yeah, I remember that one
05:00:26 <tp> the xkcd dude is seriously twisted!
05:00:36 <DKordic> XD
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05:02:56 <tp> I'm finishing my third article on the use of bitfield definitions atm
05:03:20 <tp> this one is a beauty and will drive my point home to all ages I think
05:04:53 <tp> I selected (someone elses) code at random to analyse and quite coincidentally, while using it, I discovered it contained exactly the kind of ambiguity my system is designed to avoid.
05:05:10 <tp> who can ask for more ?
05:09:18 <tp> As a young technician I would read the only magazine available for electronics in this country, "Electronics Australia" and I would go straight to the 'Servicemans' regular column, which usually involved a fascinating tale of him chasing some obscure electronics fault that one literally couldn't invent.
05:10:09 <tp> my aim is to make my Forth articles similarity interesting to readers, a lofty aim ....
05:25:09 <veltas> Well you know I'll read them ;-)
05:25:23 <tp> :)
05:25:37 <tp> only if theyre interesting
05:25:48 <tp> boring crap deserves to be ignored
05:25:53 <veltas> I won't know if they're interesting until I read them
05:26:30 <tp> thats why I start every article with "Blond bombshell has NIPSLIP!!!!"
05:27:23 <boru> Is this going to be an ezine, or something more like a blog?
05:27:34 <tp> boru!
05:27:41 <boru> Afternoon, old chap.
05:27:47 <veltas> At this rate it's going to be The Sun
05:27:59 <tp> boru, it's just my old fprth notes collection that I put online years ago
05:28:04 <tp> valhahah
05:28:19 <boru> Hmm, I see.
05:28:59 <tp> boru, every year or so I look back at it and think 'that was a pile of old tripe!"
05:29:29 <boru> I know the feeling.
05:30:18 <tp> boru, currently Im comparing the Keil C structures built with #defines for every possible bitfield combination (and them some) to my own bitfield definitions
05:30:40 <boru> Do people still use Keil? My goodness...
05:31:06 <tp> yeah, I guess ... it's owned by Arm Holdings thesedays
05:31:57 <tp> in fact Arm and it's vendors have a unsettling habit of buying independent software vendors and turning their products into s**t
05:32:55 <boru> Well, they have to make it align with their own internal software.
05:33:14 * boru coughs.
05:33:44 <tp> boru, a lot of C noobs who wish to avoid the horrors of HAL with STM32 soon are referred to the Keil CMSIS pack so they can partake of some excellent baremetal code vastly simplified in comparison
05:34:50 <tp> to me the advice sounds a lot like, why get the Black Death, diarrhoea is so much more pleasant ?
05:35:37 <veltas> I would choose diarrhoea over the black death
05:35:45 <tp> veltas, me too
05:36:15 <tp> but Id rather choose a nice bowl of pumpkin soup with fresh bread instead
05:36:36 <tp> which is what forth bitfields offer imho
05:36:52 <mtsd> I would, of course, go for the scandinavian eel plate
05:36:54 <mtsd> ;)
05:36:58 <boru> It's a shame that sort of thing is a solved problem; semi mfrs should just publish some document which is some parseable format from their RTL which enumerates all registers and their fields.
05:36:59 <tp> mtsd, :)
05:37:33 <boru> Directly from their RTL, I mean.
05:38:04 <tp> boru, that's what CMSIS does for ARM, and I find it very useful as Im always transforming it into something useful
05:38:08 <boru> And before you say it, I still consider DAP to be awful.
05:38:15 <boru> Well, CMSIS is moreso the API, no?
05:38:30 <boru> Like a really crap version of POSIX.
05:38:54 <tp> Ive never used DAP, and Im not about to argue with you, I dont need to thrashed withing a inch of my life by a stout irish strap
05:39:04 <boru> Though using structs for arguments has some merits for future-proofing.
05:39:13 * boru chuckles.
05:39:29 <boru> Anyway, that entire ecosystem is terrible.
05:39:35 <tp> CMSIS-SVD is the full name, it's just a XML file of all the usual register suspects
05:39:46 <boru> Ah, SVD might be what I am thinking about.
05:39:49 <tp> mempry maps, bitfields etc
05:39:52 <boru> Aye.
05:40:06 <tp> nothing special there except theye are all there!
05:40:36 <tp> and from that stage one can produce whatever
05:40:44 <tp> here is a single sample
05:41:05 <tp> \ RTC_ALRMAR (read-write) Reset:0x00000000
05:41:06 <tp> : RTC_ALRMAR_MSK4 ( -- x addr ) 31 bit RTC_ALRMAR ; \ RTC_ALRMAR_MSK4, Alarm A date mask
05:41:38 <tp> it's transformed to use the Forth I like, Mecrisp-Stellaris 
05:42:22 <tp> and depending on the MCU, it may generate 17,000+ such definitions
05:42:42 <tp> such are the size and complexity of STM32 MCU's thesedays
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05:43:01 <tp> that particular one has *97* peripherals!!!
05:43:24 <tp> I mean, OH MY GOSH!!! 97 peripherals, are you SERIOUS ????
05:44:00 <tp> I'm from a time when CPU's came with exactly zero peripherals ...
05:45:50 <boru> I'd consider memory buses and I/O pins to be peripherals.
05:46:05 <boru> But I am just being a pedantic shite.
05:48:45 <tp> we were so por we didnt have I/O pins!
05:48:48 <tp> poor
05:49:06 <tp> our pins were repossessed!
05:49:57 <tp> anyhow, it's past this old geriatrics bedtime so I will say goodevening all!
05:50:08 <boru> Catch you later man.
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23:15:21 <tp> 06 May 2020: Bitfields, Declare Early? This is an article about EMBEDDED development and maintenance coding style.:  https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/bitfields-declare-early.html
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