00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.04.27 00:03:39 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 00:19:49 --- quit: DKordic (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:28:50 --- join: mtsd_ joined #forth 00:30:35 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 00:30:36 --- nick: mtsd_ -> mtsd 00:45:08 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: mtsd) 00:48:35 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 00:49:32 --- join: DKordic joined #forth 00:57:11 --- join: dys joined #forth 01:09:32 --- join: reepca` joined #forth 01:10:00 --- quit: reepca (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:11:10 --- join: xek joined #forth 01:55:06 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 02:26:32 tp: I've got my STM32 disco 02:34:00 It's so cool it has lights and everything 03:09:31 "Info : Unable to match requested speed 500 kHz, using 480 kHz" 03:09:57 Might have to use a non-terrible computer for this lol, not sure if that's my laptop being olde 03:21:16 tp: What should I be using to connect to this thing? 03:42:28 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 04:27:57 tp: Okay I have it working, turns out the correct thing to do was just go straight to Mecrisp Stellaris docs, go figure 04:37:33 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 05:12:04 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 06:03:36 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 06:31:58 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: mtsd) 06:41:09 veltas, "Info : Unable to match requested speed 500 kHz, using 480 kHz" ... thats cool, I get it also 06:42:52 I have given up trying to use that debug env 06:43:01 Flashing works thankfully 06:47:58 --- quit: iyzsong (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 08:17:35 --- quit: Zarutian_HTC| (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 08:28:49 --- join: Zarutian_HTC joined #forth 09:20:35 --- quit: jn__ (Remote host closed the connection) 09:20:37 --- quit: lonjil (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 09:21:37 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 09:22:46 --- join: lonjil joined #forth 09:26:57 --- quit: jackdaniel (*.net *.split) 09:26:57 --- quit: Vedran (*.net *.split) 09:26:57 --- quit: nonlinear (*.net *.split) 09:26:57 --- quit: tolja (*.net *.split) 09:26:57 --- quit: ornxka (*.net *.split) 09:26:57 --- quit: klys (*.net *.split) 09:26:57 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (*.net *.split) 09:26:57 --- quit: bluekelp (*.net *.split) 09:27:16 --- join: jn__ joined #forth 09:27:32 --- join: ornxka joined #forth 09:27:37 --- join: klys joined #forth 09:29:31 --- join: fiddlerwoaroof joined #forth 09:32:13 --- join: jackdaniel joined #forth 09:32:13 --- join: Vedran joined #forth 09:32:52 --- join: cheater joined #forth 09:33:06 --- join: nonlinear joined #forth 09:33:07 --- join: tolja joined #forth 09:33:07 --- join: bluekelp joined #forth 09:34:34 --- quit: lonjil (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 09:46:25 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:46:43 --- join: lonjil joined #forth 09:47:08 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 09:57:56 Luke... 09:58:04 use the forth 10:01:12 * tp works on his tarball release IDE stuff 10:21:02 --- quit: lonjil (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 10:22:10 --- join: lonjil joined #forth 10:23:36 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 10:24:02 --- join: cheater joined #forth 10:26:40 --- quit: gravicappa (*.net *.split) 10:26:41 --- quit: nonlinear (*.net *.split) 10:26:41 --- quit: tolja (*.net *.split) 10:26:41 --- quit: bluekelp (*.net *.split) 10:26:41 --- quit: jackdaniel (*.net *.split) 10:26:41 --- quit: Vedran (*.net *.split) 10:29:57 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 10:29:57 --- join: nonlinear joined #forth 10:29:57 --- join: tolja joined #forth 10:29:57 --- join: bluekelp joined #forth 10:30:04 --- join: jackdaniel joined #forth 10:30:04 --- join: Vedran joined #forth 10:31:13 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:46:48 --- join: xek_ joined #forth 11:49:33 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:54:08 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:31:03 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 13:22:09 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:33:24 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 13:33:51 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 13:33:57 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 14:17:27 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 15:02:45 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:04:03 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 15:04:05 --- quit: jedb (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:04:38 --- join: boru` joined #forth 15:04:41 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 15:04:44 --- nick: boru` -> boru 15:12:36 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:31:08 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 15:32:13 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 15:32:13 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 16:39:35 hey guys 16:40:42 hey tabemann 16:41:38 trying to figure out what the heck to do next with zeptoforth 16:41:47 intertask communication? 16:42:40 woo 16:42:47 but most intertask communication should be as simple as two variables, a value and a flag 16:43:10 youre building a monster 16:43:10 or if the value is supposed to be an address, just one variable (with zero as unset) 16:43:55 oh, on my PC forths I wrote utterly elaborate intertask communication constructs 16:44:27 yeah, PC forts grow outa control sometimes, look at gforth 16:44:39 it's dictionary is intimidating 16:45:02 hashforth is really complex 16:45:09 I think CRC took the right direction 16:45:52 tabemann, I did try and compile hashforth once or twice on FreeBSD a while back and it didnt complete 16:46:01 so Ive never used it 16:46:26 apparently some people have had issues with it 16:46:36 in fact in my experience about 99% of pc forths are *all* buggy 16:46:45 but as I don't use FreeBSD I have no means of debugging it for them 16:46:50 of course 16:47:07 i have no doubt youd fix it in 5 minutes 16:47:31 I think it's the growing Linux differences to unix 16:47:55 --- quit: remexre (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1) 16:48:45 whereas zeptoforth's only dependency is gas 16:48:48 and of course FreeBSD ha a tiny user base in comparison so it's not a criticism from me if something wont compile on FreeBSD thats made on Linux 16:49:09 exactly. Zeptoforth compiles smooth and fast here 16:49:29 all things considered, the zeptoforth kernel is tiny 16:49:55 it's only "large" when compared to the flash on smaller cortex-m mcus 16:50:04 tabemann, I've almost finished my latest round of IDE updates here so I'll have a quick look at Zeptoforth soon and see if I can add hardware handshaking 16:50:21 tabemann, yeah it is pretty small 16:50:39 have you seen that the Mecrisp-Stellaris kernel is only 8.5kB ? 16:50:50 thats the absolutes smalles kernel only 16:51:20 I've never tried it so I dont how functional ist is 16:51:55 but 20kB is fine for me. I like all the utilities and 64kB flash is huge for embedded 16:52:12 1MB is beyond humungously gigantic 16:52:25 hey tabemann can you see why this wouldnt work ? 16:52:28 case 16:52:28 $C0 of 1 endof \ prgChg 16:52:28 $D0 of 1 endof \ chPress 16:52:28 $F0 of rdrop exit endof \ SysEx 16:52:28 2 \ {'all others' default broken?} 16:52:29 endcase ; 16:52:42 the zeptoforth kernel for stm32f407 is 21184 byte 16:52:54 simple 16:53:03 a Mecrisp-Stellaris user said it his code above doesnt work and Ive no idea what the rdrop is doing 16:53:21 2 is on top of the stack, which is dropped by endcase 16:53:25 it has to be 2 swap 16:54:03 "simple" bwahhh, you programmers are legends to us techs! 16:55:42 rdrop exit pops the return address of the current word, assuming that one has not put anything on top of the return stack, and then branches to the next address on the return stack 16:56:15 tp: well you almost certainly know far more about hardware than I ever will 16:56:40 tabemann, well Ive spent a life doing hardware, imagine what youll be able to do when youre 66 ? 16:57:39 tabemann, but why does he have to use rdrop exit here ? 16:58:00 --- join: remexre joined #forth 16:58:20 is it just a way to clear the return stack and jump out of the case ? 16:59:09 no 16:59:29 it's for returning to the caller of the calling word 16:59:48 tabemann, and at least youre getting into some hardware in your 30's, I didnt start Forth until 2014 when I was 81 16:59:53 oops I mean 61 17:00:07 oh! 17:00:29 it only works if the calling word has put nothing on the return stack aside from its caller 17:00:37 but wont that happen anyway when case completes ? 17:00:45 as is usual for Forth 17:00:54 as a result I wouldn't recommend it as a control structure 17:00:57 no 17:01:24 because it's for returning not to the calling function but the caller of the calling function 17:01:28 oh yeah it will just go to the next word in the program! 17:02:14 obviously I've never done anything like this so far 17:02:36 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 17:02:58 there is way too much programer-fu in this for me 17:03:36 I've never used rdrop exit and think it's a bad idea 17:03:44 * Zarutian_HTC keeps his silence on jump tables and such 17:03:56 tabemann, does every CASE fallthru value require a SWAP ? 17:04:36 ill never use it myself, it's obviously hard to debug as this guy cant work out why his program above fails 17:05:06 Zarutian_HTC, LOOKOUT!!! HORIZONTAL FANG! 17:05:20 all catch-all code requires SWAP or like to be able to return values 17:05:44 tabemann, wow, Ive learnt something MAJOR today then 17:06:24 okay, I'm gonna have dinner in a moment 17:06:34 tabemann, thanks for the advice :) 17:06:40 bbl 17:06:47 tabemann, I'll pass it on to the user 17:08:08 * Zarutian_HTC doesnt see any stalicites 17:08:26 hahah 17:51:25 back 17:52:05 welcome back! 17:52:25 * tabemann doesn't know why zeptoforth is so huge... 17:52:50 only 20kb ? 17:53:02 yeah 17:53:15 thats not huge 17:53:24 the extras are even more huge 17:53:36 with the extras it takes up about 64K 17:53:36 does your Forth have anorexia ? 17:53:46 aha 17:54:21 well your extras are all in Forth so theyre going be 3x the size of the utils in Mecrisp-Stellaris ? 17:54:57 there is space wasted in there, though, as zeptoforth is designed to have its dictionary start on a flash erase page boundary 17:55:16 ok. 17:55:16 see min 17:55:16 000016E4: CF01 ldmia r7 { r0 } 17:55:16 000016E6: 42B0 cmp r0 r6 17:55:16 000016E8: DC00 bgt 000016EC 17:55:19 000016EA: 0006 lsls r6 r0 #0 17:55:21 000016EC: 4770 bx lr 17:55:23 Bytes: 10 ok. 17:55:32 yeah, same problem with Mecrisp-Stellaris 17:55:49 start and end on a page boundary iirc 17:56:27 I had to increase the flash size of Mecrisp-Stellaris for STM32F103 as the release too tight to add anything 17:56:38 so I had to waste a whole page 17:59:14 okay, the extras take up 24K 17:59:36 thats a little smaller ;-) 18:00:32 but mind you, there is no disassembler in there 18:00:50 all the utils for Mecrisp-Stellaris are written is assembler only the user contribs and larger programs are written in Forth but a fair few of those use inline machine code for speed when needed 18:01:21 whereas all the utils for zeptoforth are in forth 18:01:26 and a dissembler is fairly large 18:01:57 yeah, hence a lot bigger, so unless you start rewriting them in assembler, you wont able to reduce them a lot 18:02:32 I guess thats what you should do next ? start rewriting what you can in assembler ? 18:03:13 your binary is probably larger because it's in thumb2 ? 18:04:02 thumb2 is actually more efficient in ways 18:04:16 I've tried to use 16 bit instructions as much as I can 18:04:54 but some things, like literals andcalls, are oftentimes best expressed with 32 bit instructions 18:05:28 literals can be 16 bit in one 32 bit instruction, and 32 bit in two 18:06:08 and calls are always 32 bit in zeptoforth but that allows quite a bit more range before a literal with blx is needed 18:07:06 but efficient how, speed or size ? 18:07:17 or programmer friendly ? 18:08:06 speed because oftentimes a single 32-bit instruction can replace two 16-bit instructions 18:08:41 size because literals are more compact than big chains of 16-bit movs, lsls, and orrs instructions 18:08:51 arent speed and size usually opposite in terms of advantages ? 18:09:32 i guess one proof is that the size of Mecrisp-Stellaris for cortex-mo is small with everything ? 18:09:43 yet it's not that fast 18:10:09 cortex-m3 is on average 3x - 5.8x faster at the same clock speed in my simple tests 18:10:12 how does it not create big movs, lsls, and orrs chains 18:10:41 it does, and at times it will refuse to jump 18:10:53 with a 'jump too far' message 18:11:08 but splitting off another word always fixes it 18:11:22 i guess it's a statistical thing ? 18:11:41 how many times does a user app jump far ? 18:11:43 like a 32 bit literal is four movs instructions, three lsls instructions, and three orrs instructions 18:12:04 yes 18:12:06 that's 20 bytes 18:12:12 yes 18:12:34 but only for 32 bit literals 18:12:42 most short words are fine 18:12:51 whereas a 32 bit literal in thumb-2 is a movw and a movt instruction, comprising just 8 bytes 18:13:18 it's statistical, you could make a code analyser ??? 18:13:29 print out the summary ? 18:13:44 that would be cool and as a user app it doesnt need to be small 18:17:18 * tabemann doesn't feel like writing code to parse compiled code though; e.g. I could write a disassembler, but am of the opinion that someone can always dump the code and feed it into radare 18:18:07 i use the dissambler all the time 18:18:30 it's a massive pain to feed machine code into radare2 18:19:07 I did start writing a word to dump single words to the screen 18:19:55 my plan was to add the mcu startup code to the word contents to make standalone binaries I could test 18:20:06 and also study in RA2 18:20:28 I wrote a basic DUMP word, and could also extend ihex to be more general 18:20:54 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 18:21:08 but frankly a "see' word is infinetly more useful and far easier 18:21:32 my issue is that zeptoforth is already 64K in size 18:21:38 if your users cant 'see' their words I'd expect a lot less users 18:21:57 it's big and it's bloated 18:22:02 why does that matter when you have 1MB of flash ? 18:22:21 because I expect I might want to port it to smaller platforms someday 18:22:29 what is the binary size of a mucropython ? 250kB ? 18:22:38 tis true 18:22:48 or a lot more 18:23:15 * tabemann amused by calling micropython "mucropython" 18:23:43 tabemann, I recommend you relax about the size, after all one day you might modify hashforth to be a 'tethered Forth for cortex-mo :) 18:23:56 lolol 18:24:13 no one cases if a pc Forth is 500kb 18:24:17 or more 18:24:34 --- nick: jedb_ -> jedb 18:24:39 okay next thing then - write a disassembler for zeptoforth 18:24:46 thats a great plan 18:25:27 that'll take me a while, and will justify another minor version bump 18:25:33 definitely 18:25:48 youre up to what now 0.00001274 ? 18:26:19 ;-) 18:27:00 I'm at 0.4.1 18:27:40 hehe 18:28:17 I'm just not a semantic versioner I find 18:28:24 I dont have what it takes! 18:28:28 FAILED!! 18:28:47 oh the shame, the inequity 18:29:36 * crc uses date based versions for releases, but may change this to just use the fossil commit hash as a version number 18:29:47 i reached right down into my tin of 'programmer skillz' as well but all I found was a rusty old nail 18:31:17 crc, which is what I started doing after you kindly told me how to shorten the hash 18:31:20 f103-test-128kb/imageclones% tree 18:31:20 . 18:31:20 ├── 8e7ceaf09ca64ff090b4147e3ab3727f.DELETE.sh 18:31:20 ├── 8e7ceaf09ca64ff090b4147e3ab3727f.README.md 18:31:20 ├── 8e7ceaf09ca64ff090b4147e3ab3727f.bin 18:31:21 ├── 8e7ceaf09ca64ff090b4147e3ab3727f.flashme 18:31:23 ├── 8e7ceaf09ca64ff090b4147e3ab3727f.words4.txt 18:31:24 oops 18:31:34 thats my horrible old version 18:32:06 f0-touch/imageclones% tree 18:32:06 . 18:32:06 ├── f0-touch.acfddf92d7.DELETE.sh 18:32:06 ├── f0-touch.acfddf92d7.README.html 18:32:06 ├── f0-touch.acfddf92d7.bin 18:32:07 ├── f0-touch.acfddf92d7.flashme 18:32:09 ├── f0-touch.acfddf92d7.source+.fs 18:32:11 ├── f0-touch.acfddf92d7.source-.fs 18:32:13 ├── f0-touch.acfddf92d7.words4.txt 18:32:29 there, thats the latest crc assisted contents of my automated tarball releases 18:33:11 thats the complete project details for a cortex-m touch pad system 18:34:08 a non forther can flash the binary and it starts reading the value of a connected touch pad so they can make up and evaluate different sizes of pad 18:35:05 a forther can load the binary, execute 'eraseflash' and strip everything but the base Mecrisp-Stellaris kernel then edit the f0-touch.acfddf92d7.source+.fs as desired and upload it to the target 18:36:01 Nice 18:36:25 this system is IDE independent and works like any traditional forth, tho Id hate to use a 200ms EOL'd serial upload on the large source file, even the f0-touch.acfddf92d7.source-.fs with all comments stripped 18:37:06 crc, it means I can appeal to the non Forth world and the Forth world at the same time 18:37:43 crc, I find startup menues are really popular with non Forth windows users 18:38:27 they dont care that it's Forth as long as all they have to do is select a menu ( 1 - x) to make stuff happen 18:39:11 naturally there is a menu that says "learn about forth" in every one :) 18:44:01 How many look at that item? ;) 18:44:36 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 18:46:30 I've no way of knowing 18:46:57 but I'm tempted to reply "the inquisitive ones?" 18:47:57 most are windows users and I supect not many, but it's there at least and they see the word "forth" even if they dont look 18:48:09 true 18:48:15 --- join: boru` joined #forth 18:48:18 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services) 18:48:21 --- nick: boru` -> boru 18:48:48 and I'm only trying to reach those like myself who are inquisitive, I couldnt care less about those who arent, in fact I hope theyt dont look 18:49:53 from time to time I'll get a desperate cry for Forth help, some emails are quite sad, they want me to do everything to solve a simple Forth problem that they could solve eventually if they learned any Forth 18:50:54 I dont even bother to reply, my time like everyone else on here is limited, users have to make a decent effort first or I wont help them 18:51:56 in a way, the price of Forth entry is pretty steep, and I think that's good, it weans out those who arent prepared to learn anything 18:54:24 I used to reply to every request for help with Forth and assembly that I received, but I had a lot more energy and free time back then. (And my rsi issues were much less troublesome) 18:55:10 you have my every sympathy, Ive had RSI and it rates on my 99% most painfull things 18:55:45 and I've had 8 broken bones, a shattered femur and lots more 18:56:04 :( 18:56:15 I'm still kicking! 18:56:58 i also was pretty keen helping new Forth users, but some once you help just keep asking one simple question after another 18:57:15 The only bone I've broken was in my right foot; that's still giving me some issues 16 years later. Hope to never break another... 18:57:25 all they want is to get their project done, once it's finished, I never hear from them again 18:57:57 well a foot injury is very painful 18:58:16 This is why I try to write good documentation; it's best if I can just point to that or existing examples and let them work through things until they understand 18:58:23 I've never had one luckily, probably my choice of strong boots' 18:58:38 crc, agreed 100% 18:59:28 I fell off a ladder two nights before Christmas and landed all my weight on my right foot. Got a broken bone and a mild concussion from that. 18:59:45 of course for every 10 lame user emails I'll get one from some smart dude that *really* impresses, and I'm "wow!" 19:00:28 ouch, that can cause serious injuries especially if you land on your head 19:01:11 older people tend to smash their hip, and go to hospital for ages, not something you want to do atm with Coronavirus 19:01:44 I don't get many support requests now. My Forth is far enough from traditional ones to not attract too much attention and close enough for anyone familiar with forth to pickup without too much hassle 19:02:35 my ex father in law fell over and broke his hip at about 78 years old, he spent about 6 months in hospital while they thought about ways to fix it, and he caught the flu while there and died 19:02:50 his bones were fragile etc 19:02:59 :( 19:03:12 crc, and you do have outstanding doc 19:03:34 that was just the common old flu, and he was a smoker 19:03:52 I stay away from ladders now 19:17:09 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 19:18:33 good morning Forthwrights c[] 19:18:53 good evening rdrop-exit 19:18:59 :) 19:19:20 goot morgen Zem Forth Guru! 19:19:27 -m+n 19:19:50 bonjour Maitre Technicien du Forth :) 19:20:04 :) 19:20:04 (tm) 19:20:58 sadly no palour view fron say here 19:21:13 :)) 19:21:25 I can only speak ozzie 19:21:47 g'daymateowsitgoin ? 19:21:56 meatpie? 19:22:17 we just call them 'pies' 19:23:05 saying 'meat pie' risks our mouth being open so long a fly may buzz in for a butchershook (look) 19:23:25 haven't been in Australia for at least 20 years 19:23:42 it hasnt changed much, still hot and arid 19:23:50 where did you visit ? 19:24:04 Perth 19:24:11 where i was born 19:24:35 lovely little town to spend ones senility in the later years 19:25:58 attended a DEC conference, I can't remember if it was just before or after they got acquired by Compaq 19:26:15 the good old days 19:26:22 I remember the DEC building 19:26:51 I remember the Burroughs building ... 19:26:58 cool 19:27:47 I remember when Captain Cook sailed up the swan river taking pot shots at the Aboriginies in 1793 19:28:03 ok, one of those was a blatant lie 19:28:39 found a bunch of DEC related stuff in a box the other day 19:29:01 they were legends once 19:29:57 a brand new Lacoste-style DEC shirt, doen't fit me unfortunately 19:30:09 will give it to one of the boys 19:30:29 probably end up as a rag 19:30:34 kids dont care 19:31:25 a nice DEC cross pen, I'll keep that 19:31:51 gold ? 19:32:08 no, but cool nonetheless 19:33:07 ;-) 19:33:41 dec developed stuff that people couldnt imagine now 19:34:05 I once had to upgrade the firmware in a DEC VMS host at a clients office 19:34:52 it was on a polled multi drop network and Id already done all the other machines on that network 19:35:44 I get to the client office (stockbroker) and ask for access to the box but I'm met with responses of "what box?" 19:36:25 I can see all the Reuters financial terminals in the office, theyre all working and I know the box is online as I can see it's "ACKS" 19:36:36 but sure enough, NO BOX 19:37:21 we search high and low, nope no very large box that takes two men to carry 19:38:22 so we get the building mananager up to the floor, he tells us they had renovations about 3 years ago and of course all the staff in this office had changed in that time 19:38:59 turns out that the VMS box is there all right, sealed into a closet behind a new wall that went up 3 years before 19:39:13 LOL 19:39:36 like the Cantebury Ghost, that VMS box has performed perfectly the last 3 years sealed up behind a wall 19:39:52 try that with a windows box sometime 19:39:55 wow 19:40:32 DEC knew how to build stuff, they were legends to me 19:41:32 cool story 19:41:46 and true, i was there, it's my story 19:42:16 --- join: yunfan joined #forth 19:42:38 back, any news? 19:42:42 now those stockbrokers on take on average 5 seconds to harass me if a terminal is down as thats their live stockmarket access 19:42:50 on average 19:43:13 hi yunfan 19:43:29 g'day yunfan 19:43:56 yunfan, yes, I think the Forth community has grown from 42 to 44 19:44:03 so 3 years+ utterly unattended sealed behind a wall, zero issues, VMS 19:44:23 explosive growth! 19:45:16 rdrop-exit: haha 19:45:58 VMS was a major influence on Windows-NT 19:46:21 so I heard 19:46:34 Dave Cutler 19:46:40 yes 19:47:35 but thats ancient history 19:47:54 all the good die young 19:48:56 ms had focus on linux ecosystem now 19:49:26 I have no dog in that fight 19:49:42 yunfan, I think everyone does 19:50:09 but I also have no dog in that fight as I dont use Linux 19:52:36 me neither 19:53:03 or MS for that matter 19:53:08 ditto 19:53:28 I'm a unix user (freebsd) atm 19:53:32 back 19:53:37 welcome back! 19:53:50 wb 19:54:03 don't expect to see a disassembler for zeptoforth any time soon 19:54:12 ok 19:54:20 it's going to take a while before it's ready 19:54:39 and I expect it to be big 19:55:24 tabemann, what, I was expecting it already! 19:55:32 lol 19:55:57 I'm also not going to include it in the full binaries 19:56:16 tabemann, I mean really, youve had 1.5 hrs already! 19:56:32 lol 19:56:42 tabemann, your boss told me it should only take 10 minutes! 19:56:52 and he was right! 19:57:53 tp: including win32forth team? :] 19:58:01 tabemann, it's not in the Mecrisp-Stellaris kernel, but there is a version that gets built in the release tarball that includes it (using thumbulator) 19:58:24 yunfan, winwhat who ? 19:58:42 tp: win32forth? or winforth? 20:00:26 yunfan, I havent used windows since 1997, I have no idea what that is, but dont tell me, I'd rather not know :) 20:01:51 I installed emacs on my windows box for work yesterday 20:02:01 LMI had a Windows Forth 20:02:20 I wanted to use emacs macros, and none of the other editors compared, except for notepad++ (but I've never used their macros) 20:02:27 *allegedly 20:02:48 just use Forth :) 20:03:11 I had been writing python scripts to automate things, but those are much slower and more painful to write than a simple emacs macro that does the same thing 20:03:58 * tp is still lurking on the outskirts of LISP 20:04:18 it's hard to teach a old tp new tricks 20:04:31 if I need to write a big project for Linux I'd probably go back to Haskell 20:05:43 the other alternative would be to use hashforth, but I'd be forced to write interfaces for everything necessary, which may be a bit much (e.g. full socket interface or GTK+ interface) 20:06:23 yeah, a lot of work 20:07:00 hashforth is much more mature, though, in ways than zeptoforth - it has much more complete multitasking support, it has a full line editor, it has extensive data structure libraries, etc. 20:07:44 you can have a processor exception occur at it will catch it 20:07:57 and it will print out a backtrace for you 20:08:06 it has full cappuccino making facilities ... 20:08:24 and a shiny aluminum kitchen sink 20:09:29 it even has a heap allocator 20:09:45 (written in forth!) 20:09:51 (not using malloc()!) 20:10:18 tabemann, Mecrisp-Stellaris also has calltrace 20:10:21 Unhandled Interrupt 00000003 ! 20:10:21 [1 ] 0000006E 00100000 20:10:21 Calltrace: 20:10:21 00000000 0000C0DD calltrace-handler 20:10:21 00000001 FFFFFFF9 20:10:22 00000002 00001824 @ 20:10:23 00000003 00000220 --- MS RA 2.5.1 tpmod --- 20:10:26 00000004 00001824 @ 20:10:28 00000005 00000020 20:10:30 00000006 FEFBAFF7 20:10:32 00000007 00004683 interpret 20:10:34 00000008 00001824 @ 20:10:36 00000009 01000000 init.calltrace 20:10:38 0000000A 0000BF2D redstack.prompt 20:10:40 0000000B 000046DD quit 20:14:51 hashforth also allows you to continue executing even after a processor exception 20:15:47 but the halt isnt a Mecrisp-Stellaris issue, cortex-m0 is halted in hardware after a #3 exception 20:16:07 notso in cortex-m4 20:16:22 #3 is a 'hardfault' 20:17:03 but it's no biggie, just a reset button push to fix 20:34:04 *.DELETE.sh : Deletes all the release files, used in testing, ignore. 20:34:04 *.README.html 20:34:04 Project notes and guide 20:34:27 hey, which format looks better ? 20:34:41 the top or bottom ? 20:34:59 the top is file name and description on one line 20:35:08 bottom theyre on two lines 20:35:27 depends on how lengthy the descriptions and file names tend to be 20:35:34 yeah, and they vary 20:35:41 it's a hard call 20:36:00 the lengthier they tend to be, the more likely one should put them on separate lines 20:36:13 that said, what matters most is to be consistent 20:36:16 tabemann, veltas now has received his L476 Disco, so I imagine he well be trying Zeptoforth at some point :) 20:36:25 cool 20:37:43 I should hit the sack, so I'll call it a night 20:38:32 g'night guys 20:40:11 night tabemann 20:41:22 back 20:41:38 goodnight tabemann, stay healthy 20:41:47 welcome back! 20:41:58 thanks 20:42:04 rdrop-exit, thats a big ask thesedys! 20:42:28 yup 21:16:22 --- quit: reepca` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:16:36 --- join: reepca` joined #forth 21:32:05 --- quit: reepca` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:32:41 --- join: reepca` joined #forth 21:34:03 --- join: Blue_flame joined #forth 22:08:54 --- quit: reepca` (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 22:39:13 --- quit: Blue_flame (Quit: Blue_flame) 22:54:47 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 23:01:09 --- join: reepca joined #forth 23:32:15 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 23:37:06 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.04.27