00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.03.30
00:11:37 --- quit: the_cuckoo (Remote host closed the connection)
00:19:51 --- join: proteusguy joined #forth
00:19:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy
00:25:29 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth
01:36:09 --- quit: cheater (Quit: leaving)
01:36:49 --- join: cheater joined #forth
02:21:17 --- quit: cartwright (Remote host closed the connection)
02:26:54 --- join: cartwright joined #forth
03:18:00 --- join: mtsd_ joined #forth
03:20:07 --- quit: mtsd_ (Client Quit)
03:20:41 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
04:08:49 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth
04:26:03 --- join: mtsd joined #forth
05:25:36 --- quit: dne (Remote host closed the connection)
05:26:23 --- join: dne joined #forth
05:50:31 --- quit: iyzsong- (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in)
05:55:27 --- join: dddddd joined #forth
06:13:15 --- join: tabemann_ joined #forth
06:16:00 --- join: tpbsd joined #forth
06:16:04 --- quit: tpbsd (Changing host)
06:16:04 --- join: tpbsd joined #forth
06:16:10 --- quit: tp (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:16:10 --- quit: _whitelogger (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
06:16:11 --- quit: dne (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
06:16:11 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
06:16:12 --- quit: cheers (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
06:17:46 --- join: dne joined #forth
06:18:29 --- join: Guest373 joined #forth
06:18:55 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth
06:23:50 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving)
06:24:42 --- nick: tabemann_ -> tabemann
06:26:35 <tabemann> tpbsd, have you noticed any issues with zeptoforth repeatedly rebooting?
06:44:35 --- part: nonlinear[m]1 left #forth
06:48:16 <tpbsd> tabemann, nope it's been runningth last 12 hrs and hasnt rebooted
06:54:15 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
06:56:28 --- join: xek joined #forth
06:58:13 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
07:14:49 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
07:17:24 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth
07:18:21 <tabemann> tpbsd: weird
07:18:47 <tabemann> well it's good to hear that it's working for you at least
07:21:23 <tabemann> I've gotta start working though
07:21:25 <tabemann> bbl
07:21:39 <tpbsd> cya!
07:25:43 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
08:10:50 --- quit: C-Keen (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
08:10:50 --- quit: APic (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
08:11:20 --- join: APic joined #forth
08:45:02 --- join: jackdani1l joined #forth
08:45:34 --- quit: WilhelmVonWeiner (*.net *.split)
08:45:58 --- join: WilhelmVonWeiner joined #forth
08:47:44 --- join: C-Keen joined #forth
08:48:09 --- nick: C-Keen -> Guest95247
08:49:37 --- quit: siraben (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
08:49:40 --- quit: jimt[m] (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
08:53:10 --- nick: jackdani1l -> jackdaniel
08:53:35 --- quit: jackdaniel (Quit: leaving)
08:53:47 --- join: jackdaniel joined #forth
09:42:57 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
09:43:45 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth
09:45:11 --- join: siraben joined #forth
09:58:09 --- join: jimt[m] joined #forth
10:02:28 --- quit: xek (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:03:54 --- join: xek joined #forth
10:16:05 --- quit: Guest95247 (Changing host)
10:16:05 --- join: Guest95247 joined #forth
10:16:31 --- nick: Guest95247 -> C-Keen
10:40:15 --- quit: tpbsd (Remote host closed the connection)
10:40:30 --- join: tpbsd joined #forth
10:40:30 --- quit: tpbsd (Changing host)
10:40:30 --- join: tpbsd joined #forth
12:25:03 --- nick: ornxka_ -> ornxka
13:29:27 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
13:36:14 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
13:53:23 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth
15:13:37 --- join: dave0 joined #forth
15:26:52 --- quit: Guest373 (Quit: Guest373)
15:28:59 --- join: cheers joined #forth
16:30:52 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
16:32:15 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth
16:32:57 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale
16:43:27 <veltas> TIL my minus was the wrong way around
16:43:57 <veltas> I am having fun debugging my mix of assembly and forth programming mistakes
16:46:51 <veltas> Do forths usually define <= and >= ?
17:03:52 <DKordic> veltas: Why not?  
17:04:57 <veltas> Space is why not
17:05:10 <veltas> And so I am sticking to conventional stuff
17:05:17 <veltas> I thought I'd ask since it's not in Forth 2012
17:06:18 <veltas> I am tempted to add it just because I already tripped up trying to 'think' with only < and >, I am too used to having <= and >=
17:06:19 <DKordic> ToS is the first Argument so "1 0 -" is correct, and the other one like in GForth is twisted.  
17:06:58 <veltas> What?
17:07:58 <MrMobius> : <= swap > ;
17:08:12 <DKordic> " 1 0 -  -1 = "
17:09:01 <veltas> MrMobius: wrong
17:09:17 <veltas> But well intentioned
17:10:18 <DKordic> GForth has "-" swapped for no good reason.  Although it is at least documented, as an excuse for RPN.  
17:12:31 <veltas> So 1 2 - becomes 1?
17:12:57 <veltas> I did not realise this when I used GForth! That is nasty
17:13:44 <veltas> MrMobius: My > is : > SWAP < ;
17:14:43 <dave0> but shouldn't it be 2nd - TOS ? so   5 3 - 2 * p   gives 4 ? when you convert infix to postfix ?
17:15:15 <veltas> Are you in every channel?
17:15:15 <dave0> (5 - 3) * 2    ==>  5 3 - 2 *
17:15:26 <DKordic> In GForth, and I guess most Forths, " 1 2 -  -1 = ".  
17:15:48 <veltas> DKordic: That is what I thought was correct
17:16:01 <veltas> So what are you saying is correct?
17:16:09 <DKordic> I disagree.  
17:16:22 <veltas> It makes a lot more sense if the expression doesn't change order, you just put the operators "on the right"
17:16:25 <dave0> veltas: i'm not a stalker if that's what you mean ;-p
17:16:45 <veltas> Nah more like "it's a small world after all" on IRC
17:16:51 <DKordic> " 0 - " should be " negative ".  
17:17:30 <veltas> Okay DKordic that is your opinion
17:17:41 <veltas> I much prefer the one where maths is more readable though
17:18:25 <dave0> : negate 0 swap - ;
17:18:54 <veltas> That is an idea
17:19:24 <veltas> I have that in assembly right now, will be nicer and shorter in forth
17:21:23 <DKordic> I do not care about ""maths"" nor ""readable"" nor ""readable maths"" ;) .  
17:22:29 <MrMobius> veltas, wrong but well intentioned :P
17:22:39 <veltas> What is wrong about it?
17:22:56 <MrMobius> your > is true when both are equal
17:23:12 <veltas> If both are equal < will be false
17:23:15 <MrMobius> not just when a > b
17:23:37 <veltas> I think you're confusing SWAP with INVERT somehow
17:24:05 <veltas> Like < is literally just > written the other way around, hence SWAP
17:24:21 <dave0> i think this is right   : <= > =0 ;
17:24:31 <veltas> Yes that too
17:24:32 <MrMobius> lol
17:25:42 <veltas> 0= but yes
17:25:46 --- join: tabemann joined #forth
17:26:38 <dave0> oh right haha
17:26:54 <veltas> What is the OOP sequel to Forth called?
17:26:55 * dave0 <== still a newbi
17:26:56 <dave0> e
17:27:00 <veltas> Is it Forth 1+ ?
17:27:10 --- quit: tabemann (Client Quit)
17:27:12 <veltas> Me too dave0 I know what it's like
17:29:55 <veltas> dave0: That has got my NEGATE down to 15 bytes from 25 bytes
17:32:12 <dave0> lol cool !
17:33:56 --- join: tabemann joined #forth
17:34:04 <dave0> someone here has an interesting word like (a b flag) where it returns a if flag is true, else it returns b
17:34:14 <dave0> you could make it branchless
17:34:29 <dave0> or constant time, so you could use it in crypto
17:36:17 <dave0> i saw some assembly code in openssl to do that.. copies a or b to r depending on a flag
17:41:34 <veltas> Very cool
17:42:04 <veltas> Weirdly it helps to have branchless code in Z80 as well, if timing matters, because branches usually take longer than passes
18:14:14 <tabemann> back
18:15:01 <tabemann> hey guys
18:15:26 <veltas> Hello
18:23:52 <tabemann> busy testing zeptoforth on stm32f407 to see if it spontaneously reboots again
18:24:10 <tabemann> even though tp said that he had been running it on his for hours withoug any problem
18:39:48 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth
18:44:11 <tabemann> hey
18:44:24 <rdrop-exit> hi tabemann
18:44:37 <rdrop-exit> need coffee brb
18:45:09 <tabemann> I think I've discovered a problem with the f407 when it's clocked too fast, namely that it randomly reboots
18:45:24 <tabemann> the weird part is that tp doesn't get this problem with zeptoforth and I do
18:49:14 <tabemann> tpbsd
18:49:30 <tabemann> it seems I've solved the problem - by slowing down the clock
18:56:23 <tpbsd> tabemann, my unit has been on since we last talked here, no resets
18:57:34 <tabemann> weird
18:57:46 <tabemann> at 168 MHz mine was regularly resetting
18:57:50 <rdrop-exit> dave0, negate is "not 1+" in 2's complement
18:57:57 --- join: boru` joined #forth
18:58:00 --- quit: boru (Disconnected by services)
18:58:03 --- nick: boru` -> boru
18:59:12 <rdrop-exit> hi tp
19:01:45 <tpbsd> rdrop-exit, Zen Forth Guru!
19:01:48 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:02:37 <rdrop-exit> dave0, or equivalently "1- not"
19:03:16 --- join: tabemann joined #forth
19:03:28 <tabemann> back
19:03:42 <tabemann> last thing I saw was <rdrop-exit> dave0, negate is "not 1+" in 2's complement
19:04:16 <rdrop-exit> dave0, or equivalently "1- not"
19:04:56 <rdrop-exit> tabemann, there's a site that has the Forth IRC log
19:05:18 <rdrop-exit> in case your chat program is losing lines
19:05:21 <rdrop-exit> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/forth/20.03.30
19:06:48 <tabemann> okay, for what got lost:
19:06:54 <tabemann> my thought is your machine provides more power to the board than mine
19:06:58 <tabemann> so at 168 MHz it was occasionally having brownouts
19:07:01 <tabemann> on my machine
19:09:38 <tabemann> because now at 120 MHz it's not rebooting anymore
19:15:49 <tpbsd> tabemann, mine is powered by two usb psu's, you may be right
19:19:01 <tpbsd> tabemann, Ive removed one psu, now it's powered by a usb3.3v dongle
19:20:57 <tpbsd> tabemann, I've just measured the current drawn by the entire boar, it = 0.09 A
19:21:31 <tpbsd> thats only 90 mA
19:22:01 --- join: jsoft joined #forth
19:22:57 <tabemann> interesting
19:23:22 <tabemann> why would mine be unstable at 168 MHz while yours is not?
19:24:18 <tpbsd> hmm I reset the board and my dinky USB power meter now shows 0.17 A
19:24:44 <tabemann> are you running the code with my sleep in place?
19:25:09 <tabemann> search task.fs for "sleep" (without quotes)
19:26:00 <tpbsd> by comparison my M0 running at 75 Mhz (overclocked) board draws 0.02 A
19:28:14 <tpbsd> just loading basic.fs atm
19:28:46 <tpbsd> tabemann, how do I compile basic.fs into flash ?
19:28:51 <tabemann> the kernel + basic.fs does a spinwait
19:29:06 <tabemann> tpbsd: when you load it it should do it itself
19:29:36 <tabemann> the first non-comment, non-blank line in basic.fs is compile-to-flash
19:29:41 <tpbsd> it doesnt compile into ram by default ?
19:29:49 <tabemann> no
19:30:47 <tabemann> it's essentially everything you'd want to have which isn't in the kernel and isn't stuff like systick, interrupt USART, multitasking, or extra peripheral drivers (e.g. LEDs)
19:30:51 <tpbsd> oops, sillme I should have checked!
19:31:15 <tabemann> so naturally it'd compile itself into flash
19:32:02 <tabemann> what, have you been reloading basic.fs every time you power cycle?
19:32:03 <tpbsd> and it is, I can reboot and "words" is still there
19:32:07 <tpbsd> yeah
19:32:39 <tabemann> that's a good way to eat up flash quickly
19:32:47 <tabemann> basic.fs is pretty large these days
19:32:47 <tpbsd> It didnt give me a  heap of 'redefined' warnings
19:33:02 <tpbsd> 20k
19:33:04 <tabemann> that's because zeptoforth currently doesn't have those
19:33:10 <tpbsd> no problemo
19:33:22 <tpbsd> it's going well at this early stage!
19:33:59 <tpbsd> I meant it more as Im so used to seeing 'redefined' so I just assumed ....
19:34:33 <tabemann> I should make a mechanism to compress code compiled to flash by omitting a lot of the padding optionally
19:35:14 <tpbsd> I havent loaded task.fs as yet
19:35:38 <tpbsd> how do I erase flash to get rid of all the many basic.fs ?
19:43:58 <tabemann> unfortunately I don't have erasure implemented for the f407 yet
19:44:06 <tabemann> so basically you have to st-flash erase
19:44:12 <tpbsd> ah ok
19:44:33 <tpbsd> I should have thought of that myself!
19:47:08 <tpbsd> tabemann, I see "sleep" is commented out in task.fs
19:47:24 <tpbsd> I havent loaded task.fs as yet
19:53:48 <tabemann> okay, so task.fs will do a busy-wait
19:54:26 <tpbsd> do you want it loaded ?
19:54:34 <tpbsd> do you want the sleep uncommented ?
20:00:37 <tabemann> the reason to have it commented is that I was having IO problems with sleep in place
20:00:49 <tpbsd> i know
20:01:15 <tpbsd> you want me to try it ?
20:01:24 <tpbsd> why did you mention it above ?
20:01:24 <tabemann> I was asking because if it did work for you, having sleep in place might reduce power usage
20:01:35 <tpbsd> oh ok, easily done
20:01:39 <tabemann> and I didn't know if you had it in place or not
20:01:49 <tpbsd> not yet, I'll try it now
20:02:27 <tabemann> it likely will fail to load source files after loading task.fs with that in place
20:03:03 <tpbsd> hey that was cool!
20:04:36 <tpbsd> the sleep command was run, power dropped to 0.07A and when I hit enter it woke up and gave the prompt, but then halted wi*** exit status: 0 **"th "
20:05:20 <tpbsd> so looked good, just raised a exception on retirning from sleep I guess
20:06:42 <tpbsd> reboot and then running "sleep" results in it staying asleep
20:06:53 <tpbsd> so youre pretty close I think
20:07:52 <tpbsd> so real power usage for the whole board is 0.17 A or 170 mA
20:08:00 <tpbsd> which is pretty high
20:14:39 <tabemann> back
20:15:23 <tabemann> I added code compression
20:15:30 <tabemann> and got basic.fs down to 13K
20:15:56 <tabemann> exit status: 0 isn't an error message zeptoforth produces
20:16:15 <tpbsd> so where did it come from ?
20:16:17 <tabemann> sounds like an error from sleep
20:16:30 <tabemann> zeptoforth doesn't have numeric error codes
20:16:35 <tpbsd> sleep produces a error on th terminal ???
20:16:57 <tabemann> errors in zeptoforth are actually all functions that, when called, produce a human-readable error message
20:17:12 <tpbsd> : handle-waiting-tasks ( task -- ) ok
20:17:12 <tpbsd>  ok
20:17:12 <tpbsd>   dup start-task @ = if ok
20:17:12 <tpbsd>  ok
20:17:12 <tpbsd>     dup task-active @ 1 < ok
20:17:13 <tpbsd>  ok
20:17:15 <tpbsd>     over task-wait @ or ok
20:17:17 <tpbsd>  ok
20:17:19 <tpbsd>     over task-systick-delay @ -1 <> ok
20:17:21 <tpbsd>  ok
20:17:23 <tpbsd>     systick-counter @ 3 pick task-systick-start @ - unable to parse: systick-counter
20:17:25 <tpbsd>  ok
20:17:27 <tpbsd>     3 roll task-systick-delay @ u< and or stack underflow
20:17:29 <tpbsd>  ok
20:17:31 <tpbsd>     if not compiling
20:17:33 <tpbsd>  ok
20:17:35 <tpbsd>       sleep
20:17:37 <tpbsd> *** exit status: 0 ***
20:17:57 <tpbsd> but zeptoforth produces the "*** exit status: ***" ?
20:18:09 <tpbsd> the 0 comes from the MCU ?
20:18:14 <tabemann> that's probably because the usart2 clock isn't awake in low power mode
20:18:25 <tabemann> which would be a bug
20:18:35 <tpbsd> ah yes, I thought that might be the case
20:18:42 <tpbsd> easy to fix tho
20:18:45 <tabemann> also, you forgot to load systick.fs
20:18:56 <tabemann> you need to load that before task.fs
20:19:03 <tpbsd> oh!
20:19:20 <tpbsd> Ill try that all again then
20:19:41 <tpbsd> I'm using Picocom, I cant run e4thcom on FreeBSD 
20:19:42 <tabemann> and now I know why usart2 isn't waking up - the systick wasn't active to wake it up
20:20:02 <tpbsd> ill erase and reload everything
20:20:13 <tabemann> so there's a bug in how usart2 is configured
20:20:24 <tabemann> but systick at least partially masks it
20:20:29 <tpbsd> ok
20:20:30 <tpbsd> brb
20:21:37 <tpbsd> what files should I load and in what order ?
20:27:36 <tabemann> back
20:27:57 <tabemann> look at src/stm32f407/forth/setup.fs
20:28:09 <tpbsd> ok
20:28:21 <tabemann> it's not really a forth source file as much as a bunch of directives for e4thcom
20:28:37 <tabemann> aside from the (useless on F407) cornerstone at the end
20:33:10 <tpbsd> oh ok
20:33:33 <tpbsd> setup.fs is fine for what I need
20:36:36 <tpbsd> tabemann, do you have a list of zeptoforth compiler error warnings ?
20:37:03 <tpbsd> or a grep suggestion to find them ?
20:38:24 <tpbsd> tabemann, should it reboot after loading systick ?
20:38:29 <tpbsd>  ['] systick-handler systick-handler-hook ! ok
20:38:29 <tpbsd>  ok
20:38:30 <tpbsd>   SYST_CSR_TICKINT SYST_CSR_ENABLE or SYST_CSR bis! ok
20:38:30 <tpbsd>  ok
20:38:30 <tpbsd> ; ok
20:38:30 <tpbsd>  ok
20:38:32 <tpbsd>  ok
20:38:34 <tpbsd>  ok
20:38:36 <tpbsd> \ Reboot ok
20:38:38 <tpbsd>  ok
20:38:42 <tpbsd> reboot
20:38:44 <tpbsd> *** exit status: 0 ***
20:39:51 <tabemann> back
20:39:55 <tabemann> yes
20:40:38 <tpbsd> i just realised I can look in the source, <doh> Im a bit dumb today
20:40:47 <tpbsd> must be the zeptovirus
20:43:25 <tabemann> you're not dumb at all
20:44:09 <tpbsd> well done tabemann !!!
20:44:25 <tpbsd> 0.07 A quiescent and all working
20:44:37 <tpbsd> thats impressive
20:44:50 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth
20:45:02 <tpbsd> the actual cpu power will be a lot less as I'm measuring the whole board atm
20:45:38 <tpbsd> I'll dig out my shielded multimeter measuring gear later and determine the power with better accuract
20:46:12 <tpbsd> one problem measuring the power is all the RF on the board which affects a sensitive moiving coil meter
20:49:54 <tpbsd>  ok
20:49:54 <tpbsd> : happy ." only 0.09A ! cr ; unable to parse: only
20:50:02 <tpbsd> oops
20:50:51 <tpbsd> : happy ." only 0.09A ! " cr ; ok
20:50:51 <tpbsd> happyonly 0.
20:51:50 <tpbsd> : happy1 ." only 90 mA " cr ; ok
20:51:50 <tpbsd> happy1only 90 mA 
20:51:50 <tpbsd>  ok
20:55:40 <tpbsd> : happy2 cr ." only 90 mA ! " cr ; ok
20:55:40 <tpbsd> happy2
20:55:41 <tpbsd> only 90 mA ! 
20:55:41 <tpbsd>  ok
20:56:15 <tpbsd> hmm
20:56:18 <tpbsd> : happy3 cr ." Zeptoforth is asleep and the F4 Disco is only using 90 milliamps " cr ; ok
20:56:18 <tpbsd> happy3
20:56:18 <tpbsd> Zesco is only usin
20:56:18 <tpbsd>                    ok
20:58:06 <tabemann> back
20:58:40 <tpbsd> tabemann, no I'm not dumb, but I'm dumb today :)
20:59:05 <tpbsd> very impressed here tabemann, you have the basics working with terminal and sleep
20:59:39 * tabemann is messing around with interrupt priorities to no avail
21:00:51 <tpbsd> we have some interrupt words
21:01:43 <tpbsd> : interrupt-priority ( c irq# -- ) \ $00 is highest
21:01:44 <tpbsd>   $E000E400 + c!
21:01:44 <tpbsd> ;
21:01:44 <tpbsd> : interrupt-priority@ ( irq# -- c )
21:01:44 <tpbsd>   $E000E400 + c@
21:01:44 <tpbsd> ;
21:01:50 <tpbsd> thats for a F0
21:07:38 <tabemann> interrupt priorities are more complex than that on the F407
21:27:04 <tabemann> okay, it should now properly set interrupt priorities
21:27:30 <tabemann> but I must go to bed, so g'night
21:34:21 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
22:09:23 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection)
22:12:25 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection)
22:15:29 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth
22:26:07 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:26:22 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth
22:27:44 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth
22:31:52 --- quit: reepca (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
22:40:59 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:41:19 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth
22:45:41 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
22:57:24 --- quit: _whitelogger (Remote host closed the connection)
22:57:58 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:00:08 <tpbsd> bak
23:00:29 --- join: _whitelogger joined #forth
23:18:05 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth
23:27:00 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:31:46 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth
23:49:53 --- join: xek joined #forth
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.03.30