00:00:00 --- log: started forth/20.01.09 00:00:02 it seems a very popular way to cook stuff 00:00:22 tpbsd, it honestly smells stupid good right now 00:00:40 I believe you 00:00:47 Because its slow, the herbs and bullshit have not burnt off from the usual heat 00:00:52 yeah 00:01:04 or the mercury 00:01:15 lol. 00:01:23 You and your paranoia 00:02:36 oh I'm triggered now! 00:03:01 just wait till I tell my 10 million friends on facebook! 00:03:05 Oh well, I am all out of tissues. 00:03:16 Perhaps you could use your tampons 00:03:54 nah, I dont have any, my thousands of girlfriends pinched them all 00:04:56 I could use your ceramic bowl to cry into but it looks a bit porous and chock full of heavy metals 00:07:54 OMG!!! tons of rain about to hit! 00:08:04 Well I could understand your need to try, with nothing to absorb your issues, and a high rate of women throughput, its bound to send anyone in a spiral downwards 00:08:22 I think Im hallucinating, must be all that heavy metal in jsofts crock pot! 00:08:22 Are you _that_ emotional, tpbsd ? :P 00:08:59 Oh no, wait... its just the SJW cancer causing delusions of heavy metals 00:09:03 jsoft, sure, my robot programming has a very realistic emotional firmware 00:10:27 Must be written in java then 00:10:31 Slow cooking.... very good! 00:11:14 hey mtsd :) 00:11:21 Hey tpbsd! 00:11:30 mtsd, do you slow cook your Scandanavian eels ? 00:12:21 We just let them swim around as the lakes become warm over the summer. Three months in there and they are rady to eat 00:12:24 ;) 00:13:01 Natural cooking. No fossil fuels burned. Approved by Greta.... 00:13:32 HOW DARE YOU! 00:13:43 hahah 00:14:03 How dare I make fun of the people working to "save the planet"? 00:14:17 Well, not a hard thing to do, to be honest, hahaha 00:14:18 Poor greta aye, a puppet of her parents and such. 00:14:39 Her parents,.... yes... 00:14:40 um shes not a people, shes a child 'on the spectrum' 00:14:54 Biggest SJW people you can imagine 00:15:07 yeah, looks like 00:15:20 Trump 2020 00:15:23 :P 00:15:33 war with Persia! 00:15:40 Meh 00:15:40 You know, they wrote a book about their daughter claiming she can SEE the levels of carbondioxide in the atmosphere.. 00:15:48 killem before they make us all but persian rugs! 00:15:49 mtsd, serious? 00:15:52 buy 00:16:07 yeah, it's a loony world 00:16:14 As in "she can physically SEE the gas". Yes. It is true 00:16:34 thunberg is the moden day equivalent of the bearded lady, you can see her for $1 00:16:43 For fucks sake. We really need to get those carbon dioxide levels down. 00:16:54 Nevermind that plants need it 00:16:59 You have no idea how bad things are here... mainstream media is just unbearable 00:17:13 mtsd, I think thats a global thing 00:17:17 mtsd, I think we have a pretty good idea how bad they are 00:18:08 I stopped consuming that craziness long time ago. It just makes you drop IQ points simply by reading it 00:18:20 Wait, you can read? 00:18:26 :D 00:18:43 Slowly, but it's getting there ;) 00:19:10 Nah its all a bunch of bullshit. I think Trump has got this, save election fraud. 00:19:12 mtsd australia is burning because 20 years of 'greenies' fighting to prevent regular burning of the forests to 'save the animals' has resulted in massive fuel loads that creates unstoppable fires 00:19:20 Which has already been found 00:19:30 tpbsd, I can imagine! 00:19:53 and the fires have totally wiped out half a billion animals now 00:20:11 oops 00:20:17 Here, veganism is on the rise. Forced upon schools in some places 00:20:44 It is claimed to be "natural". Well.. not in a place where nothing grows for a large part of the year 00:20:46 mtsd, Forced? 00:20:52 mtsd, serious? 00:20:53 jsoft, NZ is sending you to Persia to fight the Elite Guard next week ... 00:21:03 Some schools have stopped serving meat. 00:21:10 tpbsd, Should I bring cards, board games, etc? 00:21:16 yeah, the world has gone insane 00:21:25 mtsd, what in the fuck 00:21:33 mtsd, are you fucking serious 00:21:39 jsoft, bring round bullets for christians and square ones for infidels 00:21:41 This enrages me 00:21:46 --- join: dys joined #forth 00:21:46 jsoft, yes, unfortunately 00:21:56 mtsd, Fucking mother fuckers 00:22:01 Fucking ass hats 00:22:06 Fuuuuuuuck thats annoying 00:22:19 Meat is critical 00:22:20 jsoft, it's true and not only in Sweden 00:22:37 It is crazy. 00:22:45 jsoft is also happening elsewhere in the world 00:23:09 tpbsd, I am going to explode if someone ever tells me to stop eating me 00:23:11 meat 00:23:14 lol me. 00:23:42 you guys heard of Sanitarium food company ? 00:23:48 no? 00:23:50 Its absolute bullshit. Vegans seem to lose their minds, like actual perpetual brain farts.. in addition to being skinny rakes 00:23:54 tpbsd, yes 00:23:57 jsoft, stop eating yourself! 00:24:05 tpbsd, I am so well seasoned tho! 00:24:13 jsoft, sanatarium is owned by the seventh day adventists 00:24:20 I know this 00:24:33 who believe eating animals bad 00:24:36 I don't know much about their agenda tho 00:24:38 ORLY 00:24:44 Really? 00:24:47 yep 00:24:50 I was not aware of that. 00:24:55 thats their agenda 00:24:56 Well fuck them. 00:25:02 Are you sure? 00:25:14 um, I read it on the Internet 00:25:21 ahh well, confirmed :D 00:25:21 so it must be true ? 00:25:24 lol 00:25:42 Here, the story is something like "Cows fart methane. Methane causes greenhouse effects. We must save the planet. So stop eat meat, instead import stuff from across the planet. Save world. feel good." 00:25:52 yeah 00:25:56 insanity 00:26:00 Nah the vegan thing has taken an interest to me, as I have as of about 2 years ago gone in the complete opposite direction, so I notice it more 00:26:13 mtsd, yeah it is outrageous 00:27:17 Buy Teslas. Save World. (Except all places where minerals are mined) 00:27:19 tpbsd, what was that round bullets square bullets comment tho 00:27:22 Etc etc 00:27:42 I like my exploding dinosaur vehicles 00:28:30 jsoft, you must use round bullets for christians and square ones for infidels! 00:28:42 I don't get it 00:29:21 Hmmm 00:29:28 it's traditional 00:29:39 dont they teach you grunts anything ? 00:29:47 A Christian is an infidel tho, so round + square both? 00:29:59 oh, good point 00:30:08 I never thought about that 00:30:36 mtsd, sounds quite messed up over there :( 00:31:22 mtsd, the whole crop thing.. is from what I understand, quite horrific in terms of damage compared to just eating daisy 00:31:44 tpbsd, it is messed up. Really messed up 00:31:53 mtsd, ultra messed up. 00:31:57 mtsd, where are you ? 00:32:10 Sweden 00:32:27 tpbsd, Aww the blondie chick nation 00:32:28 Yes, Sweden 00:32:45 now it's the recently raped blondie chick nation 00:32:50 That too... 00:32:56 Ahhhhhh I was about to mention that 00:33:00 That is another thing... 00:33:11 the death of Sweden :( 00:33:13 you guys have some drastic immagrants are welcome problem aye 00:33:29 It is more or less a civil war starting up 00:33:39 yeah, and not just there 00:33:40 Some areas are truly dangerous. 00:33:55 Lets be honest here. Muslims. 00:33:58 I read about them, Swedish police can go to them 00:34:04 Seems to be the key element going on here. 00:34:11 Yes, lets be honest and straight about this! 00:34:12 RASCIST!!! 00:34:25 HOMOPHOBE, TOXIC MALENESS! 00:34:26 It's a cult, not a race 00:34:31 For once, instead of doing what politicians and journalist do here 00:34:41 mtsd, you need a trump 00:35:03 You know what happened in the last election? 00:35:04 well polies live in nice gated gommunities with armed guards, their daughters dont get raped, no problem 00:35:13 mtsd, no ? 00:35:45 There is a party trying to change things, but they are usually called RASCIST and NAZIS by the others... 00:36:01 They got quite a lot of votes last time 00:36:03 Swedish police *can't* go to those places I mean 00:36:17 mtsd, I almost bet those peopel calling them NAZI's are the loud minority 00:36:17 mtsd, thats what happens 00:36:34 jsoft, and the 'imagrants' 00:36:38 yep. 00:36:44 But then, certain other parties CHANGED SIDES and banded together to form a government 00:36:50 immigrants 00:37:10 Like if labour and tories would have formed a government together, in the uk 00:37:23 Essentially, if the muslim population in a country gets over a certain percentage, they take over the country 00:37:41 And its not a majority percentage 00:37:53 mtsd, it's the old pendulum of human events, the pendulum will swing from 'open borders' to high borders and machine gun towers 00:37:54 Just to steer away from the result in the election. So, democracy does not work very well here... 00:38:03 Its because they all stick together, and all vote for the same asshole politician of their choosing 00:38:10 it's all rigged 00:38:22 tpbsd, yes. That is what I think. Through history, the pendulum always swings 00:38:28 democracy is too easily subveryed I think 00:38:35 subverted 00:38:45 That is what happened here. 00:38:59 mtsd, yes, and the pendulum is usually stuck at one end, never in the middle for long 00:39:27 was it plato who hated democracy ? 00:39:58 some famous philosopher hated democracy 00:41:19 It makes me mad, really. New election in 2022... 00:41:49 mtsd, ya see UK Trump won the other day.. I hope that spreads 00:42:12 The area where I grew up is a no-go zone now. I used to ride my bicycle to the library there when I was a kid. No problem. 00:42:14 More Trump like peopels about the world 00:42:44 mtsd, yep. My dad was in the UK, and was unable to go ( he was with cops ) to certain areas, because they were no go 00:42:53 I'm confused with trump now, not happy with the assassination of the general 00:42:56 These days,in the same area, cars are burning. Shots are fired at police, fire service etc 00:43:07 tpbsd, why? He seemed to have been an ass hat 00:43:34 jsoft, because I have a brain, too much stuff makes no sense 00:43:44 tpbsd, well explain it then 00:43:52 And to top things off, the "official theory" is that all this is our fault. Us swedes. We are, apparently, too rascist.. 00:44:07 jsoft, youre a asshat at times, you dont see me assassinating you ? 00:44:48 Opening our borders and giving money to everyone isn't enough. That is actually the official explanation 00:45:01 mtsd, thats a pretty clever invasion technique, top marks to the invaders 00:45:19 The enemy is within. Our politicians and journalists 00:45:23 yes 00:45:29 tpbsd, lol. Compleeeeeeeeetly different levels of ass hat. 00:45:30 same in many places 00:46:05 Just makes me angry and sad to see my country being destroyed 00:46:09 jsoft, the assassination is like your crock pot, something smells 00:46:27 mtsd, understandable 00:46:28 tpbsd, what do you mean 00:46:45 jsoft, remember iraq ? 00:47:05 weapons of mass destruction, sadam bad! 00:47:10 Yeah, and? 00:47:11 invase! 00:47:15 invade! 00:47:19 What about it 00:47:44 wheree are the iraqi weapons of mass destruction ? 00:47:59 you see any ? 00:48:04 ... 00:48:08 I dont get your point 00:48:19 This is not Trump's doing 00:48:30 All that shit 00:48:30 the assination ? 00:48:34 No that is 00:48:39 With good cause, IMO 00:49:04 Ok, in contrast; remember benghazi, or however the fuck you spell it? 00:49:08 whats the god cause exactly ? 00:49:13 sure 00:49:17 Well there you go 00:49:33 Gotta go, see you later! Thanks for the discussion, good to see some people are still able to think :) 00:49:49 i remember american mercenaries left to die by killary Clinton 00:49:54 Defending an embassy, and at the same timne stopping the cunt who has been causing shit for our forces for a long time now 00:49:59 cya mtsd! 00:50:01 mtsd, see ya man 00:50:07 see you! 00:50:10 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 00:50:34 Anyway, so when are you going full raw vegan, tpbsd ? 00:51:09 jsoft I admit that it was very unreasonable for Iran to place its country so close to all those american bases! 00:51:22 yeah man, grass only! 00:51:49 whats good for gorillas has to be good for me! 00:51:56 exactly! 00:54:09 I had a yummy egg and bacon burger for breakfast today! 00:54:14 was awesome! 00:55:36 Awww sounds legit man 00:56:25 first one in weeks! 00:56:44 First burger? 00:56:47 yeah 00:56:52 Trues 00:56:57 first egg and bacon burger 00:57:09 I'm knocking off carbs now, had some during christmas and shit 00:57:13 I normally have steak every second or 4th day 00:57:16 But gotta get back to fighting shape 00:57:30 sounds like a load of crock 00:57:32 pot 00:57:39 whats that 00:57:49 carbs are shit, maaaaaaaan 00:57:52 knocking off carbs now 00:57:56 yeah 00:57:59 tasty tho! 00:58:19 Nah I mean not eatings burgers and shit with bread, pasta, whatever has carbs in it 00:58:50 Its horrificly bad for me IMO 00:59:18 me too 00:59:25 i never eat pasta 00:59:37 bread and potatoes is my crack 00:59:51 which I try and avoid 00:59:55 I had pasta like, 4 months ago.. it was actually really really nice. From some italian resteraunt place 01:00:07 Cause the bros wanted to go there, and I thought fuck it 01:00:52 I'm just not that into pasta 01:00:58 I find if I avoid carbs/sugar for a week or so, then the occasional cravings go away 01:01:06 Yeah nah neither 01:01:11 But itwas actually fucking nice 01:01:12 absolutely 01:01:43 they say the cravings are the carbs coming out of the fat etc 01:01:57 I dunno. 01:02:02 me neither 01:02:11 I just know they fuck off after a bit 01:02:18 And I feel better not having them 01:02:34 And heal faster too 01:02:52 yeah 01:03:03 bullet woulds heal faster ? 01:03:11 Never had one of those 01:03:30 get a arm blown off by a .50 cal and it grows back faster ? 01:03:55 Don't be silly. My torso was blown off. 01:03:59 hahah 01:04:14 I laughed my head off once 01:04:20 Hehehehe 01:04:37 Ahh I am not sure why I found that so funny 01:05:04 I gotta tell ya tho man, this wee roast beef thing is smelling stupid good over there 01:05:28 I wonder how well bottling such a smell would work as a colone 01:05:37 col.. own 01:05:41 however you spell it. 01:06:39 youre supposed to eat it 01:06:44 not smell it 01:07:23 It's still cooking tho mate! 01:07:42 I also ate four fish about four hours ago, so I am pretty sorted 01:08:02 And also a packet of salami 01:08:44 here i am trying to resist a steak! 01:08:55 it's 8pm and I dont like to eat this late 01:09:11 tpbsd, why not eat late, out of interest? 01:10:57 dunno 01:11:16 as I get older I cant do what I used to do 01:11:48 What happens if you eat late at night though? 01:12:04 i may get reflux that kinda thing, depends 01:12:14 Hmm 01:12:23 sometimes Ill get awesome dreams tho, depends on the food 01:12:33 old is different to youth 01:12:45 I could do anything at your age 01:13:19 Yeah I get it, old happens 01:13:53 The scary thing for me getting older, would be losing my mind, and/or being able to have a creative outlet 01:14:35 If I can't make shit, solve problems, etc, then wtf is the point 01:15:36 I reckon the brain has to be the most important, and most limber muscle 01:16:05 absolutely 01:16:43 sadly your love for C will guarantee pre-senile dementure for sure 01:16:58 only Forth can save you! 01:17:25 lol fuck off with your wild accusations 01:17:32 I don't love C, it's a tool 01:17:56 I think forth, from the limited exposure I have had with it, is a far better tool 01:18:22 youre a tool 01:18:40 *sniff* 01:18:46 Do you have any spare tissues? 01:18:46 lol 01:19:03 yeah, I make them out of kiwi skins 01:19:33 ooooooooooooooooooooh, HOW DARE YOU! 01:20:17 but theyre so soft and pliable 01:20:30 I wonder what they taste like 01:20:45 like cheap Chinese crock pots probably 01:20:49 lol 01:20:51 hehehe 01:21:14 Ahhh you're an ass hat :P 01:22:04 One who has their head up their ass. Thus wearing their ass as a hat. Asshat 01:22:14 ohh, nasty! 01:25:51 This is stupid shit. 01:26:01 This fucking slow cooker is like a perpetual tease 01:36:32 hahah 01:36:54 the cheer leaders would have taught you all about that! 01:39:44 They taught me to slap them on the ass, and to say put up or shut up 01:42:03 lol 01:46:12 bull, I bet all they taught you was "$200 a hour and no french kissing" at least that's what yo momma used to tell me 01:48:23 Lol you got ripped off 01:48:57 lol 01:49:38 the right response "yeah well you momma only charged me $100" 02:06:44 * phadthai laughs his donkey away 02:10:00 well this is new 02:10:04 and/or unusual 02:51:30 --- join: xek__ joined #forth 02:54:28 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 03:01:44 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 03:02:16 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 03:29:28 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 03:38:34 oh my 03:50:49 crab1: quite 03:51:31 --- quit: retroforth-bot (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05:33:18 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 07:01:32 --- join: ryke joined #forth 07:17:46 the retrobot will be down for a bit; my server died so I'm working on migrating to a new one 07:26:05 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 07:26:29 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:59:41 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 08:20:16 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 08:23:19 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 08:23:20 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 08:52:16 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 08:53:05 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08:53:07 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 09:03:25 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:03:47 --- join: Keshl joined #forth 09:04:27 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 09:04:48 --- quit: jedb__ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:15:06 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:51:45 --- join: mark4 joined #forth 10:57:14 www.github.com 10:57:19 oopts wrong window 10:59:38 Hehe, long time no see 11:00:00 omg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 11:00:01 If you're the coder formerly known as i440r (or such) 11:00:06 i am lol 11:00:18 when did you get back? 11:00:34 i was just looking at the code you gave me for isforth (now called x4) 11:01:17 theres also a thumb2 version called t4 11:01:19 I coded stuff for isforth? I know I used it as a model for some of my own Forths 11:01:37 And I was here all along, just forgot to join #forth for a brief decade 11:02:04 But now time to play with the kids (now you see the reason for forgetting stuff) 11:02:22 pong.f 11:02:43 where are you located again? 11:14:43 --- quit: jsoft (Quit: Leaving) 11:30:05 Stockholm, Sweden 11:31:03 And you're in Indiana, right? 11:46:14 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 12:00:26 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 12:00:39 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 12:00:58 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 12:04:29 --- join: mtsd_ joined #forth 12:07:20 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:13:42 --- quit: mtsd_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 12:20:46 --- join: ryke joined #forth 12:44:30 --- join: Tony_Sidaway joined #forth 12:44:32 --- quit: Tony_Sidaway (Client Quit) 12:44:53 --- join: dys joined #forth 12:46:00 --- join: Tony_Sidaway joined #forth 12:48:34 Looking at IRC logs I get the impression that mainstream scientific opinion on climate change is not popular here. Don't worry, I still respect expert opinions from the domain experts on electronics and threaded code. 12:52:15 thats random 12:52:20 what makes you say that? 12:53:10 Costed the entry level for modular synth last night. About £75 for a power supply and a caseless rack, buy the PCB components yourself and do your own soldering. I may manage to get it down further if I can find an alternative to standard racks and the like. 12:56:16 MrMobius, I'm referring to comments (by Australians even) that seem to echo the views of the extreme right anti-environment lobby that seems to control the government. 12:57:20 But I'm not going to be drawn out further on this. Suffice to say we should know better than to host such discussions on this channel. 13:00:00 im not agreeing or disagreeing. thats just a weird thing to say 13:01:00 I like the analogue modular stuff because it's really microcontroller-friendly. The opportunities for use of interactive languages like Forth (and Lisp or Python for people with ARM systems) are really great. 13:02:37 MrMobius, I'm an extremely disgruntled boomer who blames my generation's willful deafness for the mess. If you knew me you'd be wondering why I had been so reticent. 13:03:09 but these are logs from before you joined, right? 13:05:58 MrMobius, yes I scanned the logs to see if my comments on electronics (made unusually early yesterday) had been addressed. I take your point, though. Perhaps I should have just turned a blind eye. But then others might think I tacitly agree. 13:06:32 It's an extremely touchy point with me. 13:07:54 I lived in London for decades but when I came back to Sunderland it was difficult to handle the extreme lack of basic political and scientific knowledge my neighbours possessed. 13:09:01 They appeared to have got all their ideas from extreme right wing groups operating on Facebook. 13:15:04 do you mean the climate contents happened when you were logged out then or like years before you came here? 13:15:11 contents=comments 13:24:37 Yesterday. Can we move on now? I've registered my dissatisfaction with this user of the channel. That's the last thing I want to do in the political realm. 13:25:26 Going back on topic, and apologising for the interruption... 13:30:49 an ATmega2560 has literally dozens of outputs that can be configured as modular synth triggers, it can drive umpteen external devices such as serial DACs, and it can monitor the electronic configuration of the synth while the user is having fun with the patch cables. 13:31:10 sure 13:31:26 It's that latter idea that I think has not been paid sufficient attention to. 13:35:16 Another thing I spotted in the logs was a reference to gdb. It's very powerful but I disagree with the notion that it's difficult to grapple with. My early development phase for the AVR implementation of a Forth kernel relies heavily on both GDB and an excellent simulator called simavr. 13:37:16 The simulator can be told to wait for a socket connection from an instance of the AVR version of gdb, which runs on a host system such as Linux. You create that connection and after that it's just like a normal debugging session. 13:38:13 I'm not familiar with hardware debuggers, but this was all I needed. 13:39:30 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:40:20 It wouldn't be unfair to say that until now I've been hardware avoidant. I'm slowly getting out of that state of mind. 13:51:37 Getting a bit excited about this. It's a huge epiphany for me. 13:54:29 I wish I had masses of stuff in my stores, like tpbsd . I have a fair collection of passive components, a smattering of sensors, a few dozen microcontrollers, and a small collection of diodes. 13:55:40 --- quit: xek__ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 13:55:41 Depending in what your goals are, it could be more fun doing more with less (the Forthish way) 13:55:42 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 13:56:20 Fun does not grow linearly with the number of junkbox compenents, unfortunately. 13:56:32 Like money, once you have "enough 13:56:34 It's not like software, where I can cobble up a basic Vector Machine in Python and heck my way through masses of data at no cost. 13:56:45 " for your purposes, more isn't that much better. 13:57:52 Robert, I agree. I actually had 40 years of junk in various drawers before I moved out of London. I threw them away without regret. 14:01:35 I never throw anything away, only accidental losses... still searching for my missing 1802 stash. 14:02:34 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 14:06:34 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 14:09:12 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:10:06 I gave away thousands of paper books in 2016. 14:12:47 I'll probably need to do that at some point. 14:25:37 many of my parts are so old they are nearly unusable now, resistors I bought when I was 25 (40 years ago) with solder plated steel leads are getting rusty 14:26:52 I should throw them out but frankly it's hard to get good quality parts now as cheap junk is pervasive in all the markets 14:28:46 I'm a bit pissed off that my family still insist on buying new paper books. 14:29:01 Tony_Sidaway, I used the early simulavr when it first came out, back in the days when I was using avr development was very difficult 14:29:47 I don't know simulavr. avrsim is a different package. 14:29:53 Tony_Sidaway, I used to worship paper books, but like you I rid myself of a LOT of books when moving them around became a drama 14:32:10 now I'm a 100% ebook convert, so much easier, and "e-ink" displays are almost identical to ink on paper, they even look like it under a magnifying glass 14:34:07 Which reader do you use? I have a kobo aura which I do most of my reading on. 14:34:11 Tony_Sidaway, sadly I've always found simulators are lacking compared to the real thing, which is why I use cortex-m with forth or gdb now 14:34:32 But don't use it much for copyrighted stuff because it's difficult to find DRM-free books. 14:34:58 Seriously, I don't understand why anybody who routinely uses Arm cores in projects can seriously argue that the cheap stuff is "junk." It's several orders of magnitude more reliable than the discrete component and low density IC stuff we had in the sixties and seventies, and it's cheaper and faster and ridiculously more powerful. 14:35:17 Robert, I have a "kindle white" which I use, but I dont like their ereader software but cant change it. Personally I love the OSS ereader software 14:35:57 I installed koreader on this one, which works great with PDFs too. 14:36:04 my favorite ereader software is "fbreader' 14:36:53 Robert, i have always found PDF's a drama on a ereader, but perfect on a unix pc with large monitor 14:37:31 But those are significantly less portable 14:37:57 Tony_Sidaway, experience had shaped my opinion, but we don't need to debate it :) 14:38:10 Agreed. 14:38:35 Bizarrely off topic for the channel. 14:39:03 Tony_Sidaway, you buy what ever you like and form your own opinions we can compare notes anytime you feel like it 14:39:45 Withdrawing my last statement. Misread your comment. 14:40:06 Tony_Sidaway, no problem :) 14:41:28 Tony_Sidaway, Forth must by necessity have a wide scope as it's not limited to software. Remember chuck developed Forth to run *hardware*. Forth moved telescopes, it was never designed just to live in a pc like a spreadsheet or a word processor 14:51:38 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 15:07:29 --- quit: jn__ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 15:07:55 Proximity to the hardware is one of the key characteristics of Forth. It's what makes it so frugal, so self-sufficient. 15:08:41 --- join: jn__ joined #forth 15:14:00 --- quit: mark4 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:16:06 Anyway, really excited about the modular synth scene. It's a rack environment, there's a standard power supply provided, and electrical signals (both audio and control signals) are propagated freely between patch points. Just link the patch sockets with a mono cable and the signal flows. 15:17:19 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 15:18:36 --- join: dys10 joined #forth 15:20:35 Just design your microcontroller-based modules to accept and limit high signals or bad polarity, and it's a very micro-friendly environment. The microcontrollers are working at frequencies many orders of magnitude higher than the audio, and the normal audio filtering will eliminate most of the noise. 15:21:18 That's the theory anyway. No doubt there are going to be quirks. 15:21:49 --- quit: dys10 (Remote host closed the connection) 15:25:49 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 15:27:02 Good Evening 15:28:09 hey crab1 ! 15:29:33 Tony_Sidaway, a rack environment done properly would be a good thing, even if more expensive than other cheaper methods 15:49:48 tpbsd, yeah, it may be a bit more money up front than I'm comfortable with (I'm extremely stingy) but ultimately you save money on individual cases and l power supplies. 15:51:30 The 12VAC 2A adapter I'm going to use to drive my first 19" 3u rack sells on eBay for less than £5. 15:54:48 If I can find a cheaper but reliable alternative to the expensive Eurorack rails, I'll take it. In principle, I suspect that well folded cardboard like the kind they use for packaging many high end Amazon items would work better. Not sure if I have the crafting skills, though. 15:55:13 racks are always expensive tho 15:55:29 always were, always will be 15:56:04 one can make them as you say, but then expensive tools are needed 15:56:19 plus material costs are insane thesedays 15:56:22 I'm trying to disrupt that, in a highly personal way. 15:56:44 if you could source materials from a scrap yard that may be one way to reduce costs 15:57:08 but then you have the machining etc 15:58:01 I'll visit an art supplies shop and see what I can find. Also old wooden drawers and cupboards, with fortuitous dimensions, can be useful. 15:59:18 you could also use wood, that works, just need the edge connectors mounted properly 15:59:59 machining the card slots accurately would be the hardest part 16:00:22 There is a famous design for a server rack based on an item of IKEA furniture. A similar Eurorack design relies on another IKEA item. 16:00:24 cards have to slide in and out without binding or being overly loose 16:00:57 I'm all for making it yourself always 16:01:09 the next problem is the edge connectors 16:01:25 decent edge connectors will be very expensive 16:02:02 sadly your philosophy of being stingy will only work against you here 16:03:32 here is a example. in 2014 I bought 10 premade STM32F103 boards from china for $9 each which was quite cheap compared to the usual price of around $35+ for such things 16:04:17 Eurorack actually doesn't have a card system. As long as you can fit the modules into a stable fixed position (which is the function of the rails) the only permanent wiring you need is a ribbon cable with a simple, mostly standard connector. 16:05:19 here is a picture of the boards: https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stm32-boards.html?highlight=boards#shenzhen-lc-mini-stm32f103c8t6-board 16:05:47 It's a modular system so all the other wiring is done on the front panel using patch cables (or, if you're stingy like me, 3.5cm male-male mono jack leads.) 16:05:53 now, 6 years later I see that quite a few of the header pins on those boards are *rusty* 16:06:31 Calling a mono jack lead a patch cable increases its cost fivefold. 16:06:48 no edge connectors ?? well I'll keep my opinion of that to myself as you won't like it 16:08:11 He he, it is what it is. This is modular analogue audio, it's a different world. 16:10:08 I could worry about what will happen in the next ten years, but I can't even be sure I'll be around then. If I am , remind me to kick myself for not going with gold contacts. 16:11:30 I have stm32F103 boards I bought even earlier, example olimex P103 with gold plated header pins and they are still shiny and flawless 16:11:55 32,75 C 16:11:56 91,06 F comes from one such 16:12:09 they were about $55 each 16:14:51 You think that's bad, you should see how quickly bits rot on github. It's not even funny how quickly software libraries get out of date. 16:15:41 the Olimex boards contained a genuine STM32F103RB which advertises 129kB flash via it's "flash size register" so it's a more expensive chip, plus it has a lot more connectors, is bigger etc https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stm32-boards.html?highlight=boards#olimex-p103-board 16:16:07 It bothers me immensely that software that hasn't changed in a few years or even a few days sometimes is seen by people as "out of date" and therefore unusable 16:16:16 I hate the old = bad mentality 16:16:34 crab1, youre a Forth natural! 16:17:15 For me, it's the "damn, stuff I wrote in C ten years ago no longer builds." 16:17:16 but my forthing has been put on hold by sickness :( 16:19:46 And I'm probably going to make a client for the matrix protocol before I go back to writing my forth 16:20:38 BTW, is there any non-ANS forth that might be good for unix scripting? 16:21:25 retro 16:22:12 retroforth.org ? 16:22:12 I don't know where people find the energy to maintain software libraries with lots of dependencies. I may depend on the diligence of such people every time I fire up a computer, but I still think it sounds like insanity. 16:22:34 crab1, yes 16:22:46 Tony_Sidaway, agreed 16:24:28 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 16:26:14 Good morning Fortharians 16:26:25 Personally I find my patience being tried if just one line of a large build throws up an issue. Software is far too complex. 16:27:20 good morning Zen Forth Guru! thank you for saving me 8 bytes yesterday with my STM32 timing library! 16:28:07 Good morning Forth Master Technician (tm)! 16:28:20 my pleasure 16:28:55 today I make a new memstat utility, one that takes chip type as a parameter :) 16:29:20 oh the advances in usability!! 16:29:38 cool 16:31:24 nothing is simple in embedded, fortunately Forth is up top the task! 16:31:26 -p 16:32:10 Not sure I'd recommend retro as particularly suited to Linux/Unix, or scripting. It has some very healthy programming features, though. 16:33:38 But considering that otherwise sane colleagues of mine used to recommend Perl for scripting, maybe it's not so crazy. 16:33:47 what percentage of forth advocates would you all guess are poor at writing forth 16:34:02 90% 16:34:53 I'm poor at writing Forth 16:35:04 My Forth is abysmal. It took me many years to become reasonably competent in Scheme. 16:35:10 I'm a electronics tech, not a programmer 16:35:33 I see a lot of pages on the internet where people argue for forth's readability, and then provide "examples" that are loaded with nonsensical jargon that only people familiar with forth will understand, and it frustrates me 16:35:33 No reason to expect quicker progress in Forth. 16:35:56 crab1: fwiw, I use retroforth for a lot of stuff on my Unix systems; it's not hard to write things that mix shell and forth 16:36:42 crc: that's what I'm looking for, the mixture 16:37:11 exactly. the other day we watched with interest as CRC used retro to solve the question of sea level after the poles melt, I for one was very impressed with the utility of Retro 16:37:12 there's a difference between those that are learning Forth and just need more time 16:37:36 Tony_Sidaway: I think forth is a very difficult language to gain proficiency in 16:37:46 and those that think they are competent but are not 16:38:04 crab1, they say that "forth is easy to learn, difficult to master" 16:38:19 I also think people should refrain from teaching until they have achieved guru status 16:38:22 E.g., things like http://forth.works/examples/retro-tags.retro.html to generate a gags file, using Unix shell to locate source files and retro forth code (in the same script file) to process the files 16:38:29 look at it as the board game Go 16:38:48 crc, cooL! 16:39:17 rdrop-exit, exactly. This is why I proceed on the principle that if I strenuously deny any claim to competence, I'm not *that* guy. 16:40:12 one man's examplary Forth source is another man's garbage 16:41:03 in other words "one mans meat is another mans poison" 16:41:13 rdrop-exit: that's because authors write for themselves 16:41:37 that saying was coined by the caveman "UGHAHLOO" in 5000 BC 16:41:42 and figuring how to write for others is no easy task 16:41:51 crab1, yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder 16:42:04 de gustabus non est disputatum 16:42:37 nil carborundum bastardo 16:43:03 (don't let any bastard grind you down) 16:43:09 :) 16:43:31 I think a lot of Forthers bury themselves in self-imposed complexity 16:44:05 it is easy to do 16:44:30 tpbsd, I think you'll find it was Thag, of Thagomizer fame, who first uttered that phrase . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thagomizer 16:44:45 crc, thats a timely paste, I have been thinking about ctags for the Forth I use 16:46:13 the Forth approach requires more than just surface simplicity, it demands simplicity all the way down 16:46:27 Tony_Sidaway, hahah, perfect! 16:46:44 rdrop-exit, past all the turtles ? 16:46:57 tpbsd: It's handy to have; I search it with a retro-locate program (http://forth.works/examples/retro-locate.retro.html - not a good example as it needs refactoring and cleanups in general) 16:47:36 crc, I'm so leaning towards retro for some PC stuff I want to do 16:48:30 You start decide what are the "hard" layers and interfaces, everything else if Forth 16:48:40 * is Forth 16:49:51 * layer, intefaces, protocols, specs, etc... then Forth 16:51:04 i.e. what is fixed + Forth 16:52:22 Forth is what you add to what is fixed to give you total interactive control 16:53:42 what is fixed can be high level, e.g. OS, JVM, Web ASM, or low level, e.g. hardware, protocols, interfaces, protocols, etc... 16:54:20 The point is you decide what is fixed, and put Forth(s) on top of that 16:54:33 Larry Wall wrote that he regarded Perl as a decent tool if it got his work done before he got fired. I think a lot of Forthers would ruefully admit that Forth on your CV could make it harder to get hired in the first place. It has an odd reputation. 16:54:55 retro seems a little complicated to me, but maybe this first glance of mine is not enough to decide 16:56:31 Tony, because Forth on your resume is just considered an oddball programming language, Forth is much more than a language 16:56:36 I wouldn't say that retro is complicated, but it is very unconventional 16:57:18 crab1: more examples are at http://forth.works/examples and the latest docs are at http://forth.works/doc.html 16:57:25 crab1, if you look at it closely, the language is a little more pure in some ways. The lack of forward scanning makes it closer to Scheme in my view. 16:58:37 Quotes and combinators are the killer features. 16:59:37 Prefixes are weird but you get used to them. 17:00:28 each page of examples I go to gives "ERROR (nga/file_get_size): Invalid file handle" on firefox 17:01:29 Hmm 17:03:53 Tony_Sidaway: prefixes make it less homogeneous though, which is exactly one of my problems with most lisps (not fully committed to each and every token being interpreted in the same fashion) 17:04:31 crc are you using VIM and "Tohtml" to generate your Forth color syntax ? 17:04:46 Still, this seems nicer than most lisps 17:05:29 crab1: can you try refreshing the examples page and see if the links work now? 17:05:43 at least the fashion in which tokens are separated to be processed in different ways is consistent 17:05:46 crc: one sec 17:06:09 tpbsd: no; my colorized source is generated by a retro program 17:06:26 crc, even better! 17:06:26 http://forth.works/examples/export-as-html.retro.html and http://forth.works/examples/publish-examples.retro.html 17:07:17 crc: is working now 17:08:52 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 17:09:03 crab1, Common Lisp has two distinct namespaces, for no good reason that I could ever see. I had an indecent amount of fun learning Scheme, which is a much more manageable language. 17:09:18 crab1: sorry about that; I had to move everything to a new server to and forgot to regenerate some paths 17:09:31 Scheme is the best lisp I know, but still feels faulty to me 17:09:44 I just write my own versions on paper if I want to play with lisp 17:10:02 crc: are you the author of retro? 17:10:05 tpbsd: I don't have vim, just the openbsd vi, so no fancy plugins for me :) 17:10:10 crab1: yes 17:10:14 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 17:10:26 crc, that does it! I'm definitely learning retro now and setting up as #!/usr/bin/env retro ! 17:10:40 :) 17:11:31 crc, Ive been using VIM to do my docsite Forth to html but the vimscript stuff just makes my eyeballs turn yellow 17:11:51 17:12:00 Hi rdrop-exit 17:12:25 hi crc! My irc froze up for some reason 17:12:27 crc: if I would like to make HTTP POST/GET requests with retro, how do you recommend I do that? I see you have some socket stuff set up but I don't see HTTP anywhere in the examples yet 17:13:06 crc, plus the vim 'TOhtml" stuff is broken and not really suitable for me. retro will be a exciting alternative for me to investigate 17:13:37 crab1: I'll put together an example for that tomorrow 17:13:37 Ah, vim. I'll never understand why that's so popular. Guys, if you like a bells and whistles editor, emacs is there. Please let me use that for major stuff and leave me with ex/vi for quick edits. 17:14:42 I like not vim not emacs not vi nor ex nor ed, most text editors leave me sad 17:15:04 crc: thank you, you are a generous Author :) 17:15:19 Tony_Sidaway, I do wish Id put more effort into Emacs 20 years ago, but I do like it 17:16:21 Im oddly editor agnostic, probably comes from being a electronics technician and not a programmer 17:16:33 I just use the editor that does what I need 17:17:18 acme is king editor 17:17:27 hahah, EDITOR WARS!!! 17:17:46 * tpbsd goes to get the popcorn 17:17:47 crab1: no problem; it'll make a good addition to the examples 17:18:14 exactly, user requests build a better widget 17:18:37 For Forth I use a block editor, for outside Forth I don't care much 17:18:44 50% of my Mecrisp-Stellaris doc site is built as a result of user requests 17:19:14 I have a simple text editor written in retro... http://forth.works/examples/edit.retro.html (and several block editors for use on systems w/o files) 17:19:28 cool 17:20:22 There's nothing as nice as a system that's self sufficient and fully understandable by a single person :) 17:20:35 absolutely 17:20:38 so true 17:21:18 of course, it may be that no one else understand that system ;-) 17:21:48 That's why I try to document everything as best as I can 17:21:59 crc: have you seen pandoc? your examples look almost as though they match the markdown of pandoc, code blocks and all 17:22:00 --- quit: smokeink (Quit: Leaving) 17:22:41 I demoed my cortex-m dev system to a arduino user in person when he visited me ... I expected insight and questions, all I got was a blank expression that said 'brain is not in at the moment, please leave a message at the sound of the tone" 17:22:48 crab1: yes, though I don't use it. My formatting is mostly modeled after markdown, with fenced code blocks 17:24:00 crc, you have a ton of ready made solutions, this is exciting! 17:24:24 tpbsd, your setup was too straightforward for him to grasp 17:24:31 either way, I really enjoy the literate style of your programs 17:24:45 (I'll probably write a markdown style tool in retro at some point, but haven't quite needed it enough just yet) 17:25:35 rdrop-exit, I was very surprised by his blank look, the man isn't stupid. It did cause me to rethink a lot of my assumptions 17:25:35 and program -> pdf is nice 17:27:08 rdrop-exit, after that guy visited it occurred to me to make my embedded forth stuff available as downloadable binaries so no Forth knowledge is needed at all, and thats worked out much better 17:28:24 did he ask any questions, were you able to ascertain what was baffling him? 17:28:33 rdrop-exit, getting new users past that first step was a bigger hurdle than I had realised 17:28:53 rdrop-exit, nope, not a single question ... brain lock 17:29:55 this guy writes/pastes/mofifies C programs for embedded arduino in his RC control hobby 17:30:57 and he has made some progress learning Forth but is still at the "why wont Forth be like C" stage 17:32:10 too much to unlearn 17:32:25 tpbsd, it's a closed ecosystem. Many Arduino users know just enough to get along in C/C++ within Arduino. 17:32:32 he's still annoyed that Mecrisp-Stellaris (thumb1) gives him a 'jump too far' error when he puts 90 lines of Forth in the one Word 17:33:04 They don't necessarily know anything about the underlying hardware. 17:33:18 as my father would say, you can't get blood out of a rock 17:33:34 Tony_Sidaway, I know, I've followed arduino since it was first released 17:33:57 rdrop-exit, your father was Thag Simmons? Small world! 17:34:00 crab1: I've not looked into pdf creation yet 17:34:23 rdrop-exit, your father obviously never held a 'bloodrock of skellor' 17:35:40 I should add a RTC 'uptime' command to Mecrisp-Stellaris ! 17:35:41 my irc won't let me paste stuff in :( 17:36:07 35,06 C 17:36:07 94,99 F 17:36:10 I believe the internals of PDF are basically PostScript. 17:36:28 Another stack language. 17:36:44 tpbsd: too hot for my liking 17:39:10 "Well there's a difference between, and I don't think this is understood very well by everybody, there's a differe between simplifiying and making a higher level of abstraction, we say that's simplifiying, but it's actually making things more complicated most of the time because there's more stuff underneath right, and that's what we have not acknowledged as a programming community" -- Jonathan Blow 17:39:28 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 17:39:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF#File_structure 17:41:07 crc, same here 17:41:19 0.5 C, 33 F outside, 15.56 C, 60 F inside here. 17:41:28 In the UK when the daytime average high temperature exceeds 30C we all get worried. Our architecture isn't built for that, there's not enough ventilation and only posh offices have air conditioning. 17:41:46 rdrop-exit, thats a great quote 17:42:08 --- quit: jedb__ (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 17:42:38 we have had a straight week of 36C, today will be 37C 17:42:40 tpbsd, I think it hits the nail on the head 17:43:06 rdrop-exit, as do I 17:44:23 Our road surfaces melt. Kids suffocate in cars. People get poorly on the Underground. 17:45:08 Tony_Sidaway, yeah our roads melt partially also, I've seen it all my life 17:45:18 posh, such a very British word 17:45:35 personally I prefer 18 - 20C all year round 17:45:55 but we get what we get! 17:46:10 only Forth users get what they want, because they build it :) 17:46:19 that would be too cold for me 17:46:40 I'd be fine with that, too. Or maybe cooler, especially here on the coast. 17:47:12 rdrop-exit, if the temp dropped to 26C atm, I'd be looking for a jumper to wear, I'd feel cold after months of 30+ 17:47:29 but I do prefer cooler 17:48:20 I set the central heating to the lowest temperature at which I can happily strole around naked. That turns out to be 16-18C. 17:49:38 id definitely be too cold at those temps 17:50:07 at 18 I feel 'cold' 17:50:14 and need warm clothing 17:50:29 I start feeling uncomfortably warm above about 19 C 17:51:09 crc, me too after a cool winter here 17:51:35 but temps here range from 1 - 46 C in 12 months 17:51:54 thats in my area. it's wider in others 17:53:20 do you get snow? 17:53:42 I can see 15 - 44 C right now across australia 17:54:03 crab1, only in a couple of high areas in au, and then not much 17:54:21 crab1, I'm 65 and Ive never seen snow personally 17:54:53 unfortunate for you, sir 17:54:58 ah well 17:55:08 Im a sand expert tho ;-) 17:55:13 hot sand 17:55:19 but I suppose you've not had to deal with -40 temperatures which is a blessing of sorts 17:55:29 never 17:55:48 --- quit: Tony_Sidaway (Quit: Tony_Sidaway) 17:55:59 coldest Ive ever been is probably in a cool server room! 18:09:31 time for work, toodleoo 18:09:39 ciao, ciao 18:11:36 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 18:11:53 cya crab1 18:19:55 --- quit: Kumool (Quit: FreeZNC - Visit us! Server: chat.freenode.net Channel: #bnc4you) 18:29:38 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 18:31:53 --- join: ryke joined #forth 18:59:19 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 19:18:48 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 19:20:06 --- join: Kumool joined #forth 19:22:37 --- quit: djinni (Quit: Leaving) 19:27:34 --- join: djinni joined #forth 19:31:53 37,18 C 19:31:54 99,04 F 19:33:54 29C Partially Sunny (realfeel tm 35C) 19:35:26 wow, that humidity is a killer 19:36:33 my books turn yellow when the windows are open 19:38:50 switch to ebooks :) 19:39:34 I am for new books, but I have tons of old books I'm holding on to 19:41:25 I enjoy tropical weather despite the many inconveniences 19:42:28 sure 19:42:33 and the location 20:05:43 37,75 C 20:05:44 100,06 F 20:09:37 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:15:17 --- quit: tpbsd (Remote host closed the connection) 20:20:10 --- join: tp joined #forth 20:20:10 --- quit: tp (Changing host) 20:20:10 --- join: tp joined #forth 20:20:24 --- nick: tp -> tpbsd 21:02:22 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 21:29:58 --- quit: smokeink (Quit: Leaving) 22:04:02 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:04:36 --- join: Keshl joined #forth 22:21:43 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/20.01.09