00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.12.30 00:01:19 tpbsd, who said I am sober? 00:01:36 hahahh 00:02:04 jsoft, at the end of your tether then ? 00:03:15 I barely even know what these tethers even are 00:03:54 you hang from a helicopter with them 00:06:37 jsoft, hey Ive had two more emails from new Forth users as a result of my videos :) 00:07:32 at this rate I could conceivably double the number of world wide Forth users in a couple of years! 00:18:49 tpbsd, Crikey! What a stud! :D 00:19:31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0eINGyJHz8 00:19:36 a veritable pita! 00:21:02 no wonder you dont know what a tether is watching that utube crap! 00:23:48 free 00:23:48 FLASH.. TOTAL REPORTED: 65536 USED: 104116 FREE: -38580 00:23:48 RAM.... TOTAL PRESET: 20000 USED: 716 FREE: 19284 00:24:12 hmm, guess Id better modify the free Word ? 00:28:30 Somethings slightly fruity 00:30:12 nah 00:30:31 it's doing what it's designed to ... exactly 00:30:37 but STM LIES! 00:31:01 is the extra 64k hidden because its defective? 00:32:02 MrMobius, not that my tests indicate 00:32:30 MrMobius, I made a video about it 00:32:58 https://youtu.be/xpTvd1Zhe0U 00:33:25 complete with my ozie slang! 00:33:55 FLASH.. TOTAL REPORTED: 65536 USED: 38560 FREE: 26976 00:33:55 RAM.... TOTAL PRESET: 20000 USED: 716 FREE: 19284 00:34:00 there, fixed it! 00:34:35 hmm 00:43:19 I dunno, looks like it needs a red racing stripe 00:44:41 properly fixed now! 00:44:44 free 00:44:44 FLASH.. REPORTED: 65536 TOT ASSUMED: 131072, TOT USED: 104116 TOT FREE: 26956 00:44:44 RAM.... TOTAL PRESET: 20000 USED: 716 FREE: 19284 00:46:42 So what are you doing with all this fre ram 00:47:12 atm, nothing 00:47:33 this is a chip thats just been loaded with all my development stuff 00:47:51 but it's not actually doing anything yet 00:48:07 apart from running Mecrisp-Stellaris 00:48:28 What are you going to be doing tho 00:49:53 Or is it the development environment it's self you are working on ? 00:50:28 i have about 243 open projects so a lot ? 00:50:47 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 00:50:50 lol 243? farking hell 00:50:53 243 is even more than me 00:50:56 yeah in this case I'm just updating the F103 development environment 00:51:13 yeah, they sure add up! 00:51:47 many are no doubt only started, some need deletion etc. This is since about 2016 00:52:20 I arrive at that figure by counting the number of fossil repos as each one is a project 00:52:37 You have 243 repos? 00:52:39 I'm a prolific project builder 00:52:41 yeah 00:52:48 243 Fossil repos 00:53:33 0_0 00:53:54 each repo has approx 50 files 00:54:23 each project is created in 0.1 second 00:54:53 by my project creator, and thats actually the subject of my next Forth video 00:55:26 oh, the 50 files doesnt include the library files which is a sub checkout of each project 00:56:06 my library currently totals 183 files 00:57:30 this is the ID of the chip I've just set up 00:57:32 stm32id 00:57:33 Die xy coords: 108003155 00:57:33 Wafer Number: 80 00:57:33 Lot_num ascii encoded [23:0]: 0x00555071 | U P q 00:57:33 Lot_num ascii encoded [55:24]: 0x87042957 | . . ) W 00:59:03 the loaded dev words include a realtime pretty print of *every* register 00:59:05 ie 00:59:08 rcc_cr. 00:59:08 RCC_CR $03034A83 00:59:08 3|3|2|2|2|2|2|2|2|2|2|2|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1| 00:59:08 1|0|9|8|7|6|5|4|3|2|1|0|9|8|7|6|5|4|3|2|1|0|9|8|7|6|5|4|3|2|1|0 00:59:08 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 00:59:55 all 722 registers! 01:03:04 --- join: dys joined #forth 01:03:11 Hello Forth! 01:03:18 Happy holidays, everyone! 01:03:36 hello man from the frozen north pole! 01:03:50 Hello Australia! 01:03:57 how's your endless night ? 01:04:18 How is the situation now? Swedish news talked about the fires recently 01:04:33 Endless night is ok. We are coping :) 01:05:16 No snow right now, a little light outside. But most things are different shades of grey this time of the year 01:05:20 mtsd, my fire situation has improved for now, no smoke for about 4 days :) 01:05:38 mtsd, but much of the australian coast is on fire still 01:05:40 On BSD now, tp? 01:05:57 mtsd, I've been on FreeBSD for about the last 4 years 01:06:03 Ah, I see 01:06:39 mtsd, our fire situation is totally new, it's never been like this before 01:07:09 Looked really bad in the news 01:07:11 mtsd, I switched to Linux full time in 1997 after studying unix since about 1994 01:07:22 mtsd, it's the worst ever in our history 01:07:39 Prayers for rain 01:08:10 mtsd, then around 2010 I became disenchanted with Linux and looked everywhere for a unix replacement 01:08:37 after many changes of OS I settled on FreeBSD 01:09:01 I have tried OpenBSD a bit, but not FreeBSD 01:09:12 On Linux now, but pondering a switch 01:09:29 mtsd, it's our summer now so we do get a lot of storms, we had about 35mm of rain 4 days ago, the first I could actually remember in probably 6 months 01:10:05 mtsd, I loved openbsd, but my favorite was actually the Slowaris open fork 01:10:23 I really *really* love solaris 01:10:50 unfortunately the Slowaris open fork is dying, not enuf interest etc 01:10:56 Too bad 01:11:04 yeah, it's the end of a era 01:11:18 and damn oracle to hell for closing it 01:11:49 now I'm locked into FreeBSD because I'm a ZFS and BSD jail addict 01:12:04 there is no escape for me now 01:12:14 Seems like a good project, FreeBSD 01:12:38 Would like to try it out, if I could find the time.. 01:12:38 sadly it's going the way of Linux in some areas 01:12:51 Oh, it is? Not good 01:13:13 for instance, FreeBSD used Forth as the bootloader until version 12.2 where they have changes to LUA 01:14:14 but what really worries me is that the Linux people are lying, hypocritical, zealots 01:14:24 Abandoning Forth?!? Well, that does it.. ;) 01:14:46 Linux is GPL, OpenZFS is CDDL 01:15:01 that makes Linux and ZFS *incompatable* 01:15:08 Yes, I don't like the way Linux is going either. All this Social Justice Warrior stuff creeping in... 01:15:31 but Linux has been working behind the scenes trying to take over openzfs 01:16:11 Linux is now running openzfs as far as I can see, and FreeBSD has switched to ZOL "zfs on Linux" 01:16:23 tpbsd: did you hear about OpenIndiana ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenIndiana 01:16:39 a friend installed FreeBSD 12.1 recently and ZFS complained with a GRUB error ! 01:17:15 X-Scale, I LOVE OpenIndiana, utterly with all my heart. I'd marry it if I could! 01:17:48 X-Scale, sadly OpenIndiana is dying, the repo is very depleted 01:18:22 X-Scale, Id be running OpenIndiana right now if I could get the apps I need 01:19:47 I dont think FreeBSD will go the way of Linux, but annoying stuff is creeping in and makes me nervous the way I was with Linux in 2010 01:21:35 I dont begrudge Linux the crown it now has, Linux has taken over everything, everywhere except the 'desktop' which microsoft still control, but that's meant Linux is now worth hundreds of $billions to commercial companies and they control it 01:22:11 I mean IBM paid 42 $billion for Redhat a year or so ago, and IBM dont waste their money 01:22:26 42 $billion !!!!! 01:22:32 True that 01:23:17 and ZFS is in my mind, the worlds best file system by far, and everyone knows it including Linux, and Linux wants it regardless of the licensing 01:25:03 I should do a utube video about it but I'm not sure I want 10 million dislikes overnight! 01:40:59 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 01:50:36 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 01:51:02 for instance, FreeBSD used Forth as the bootloader until version 12.2 where they have changes to LUA <-- that's very telling. Next step: import systemd to FreeBSD 01:52:03 X-Scale, no, I believe 100% that FreeBSD devs will NEVER use systemd in the BASE 01:52:58 FreeBSD has already added a systemd shim? to the repo so that linux apps that must have systemd to run can use it, but thats cool 01:53:18 FreeBSD itself doesnt use systemd and never will 01:54:25 consider MX-Linux ? it's a excellent distro for laptops, I run it myself. MX does the same thing, it doesnt use systemd itself, but provides a shim for Linux apps that must have systemd 01:55:10 a great many Linux apps now wont run without systemd, it was inevitable once redhat rammed systend thru 01:56:50 so many apps are now maintained via Linux users that systemd will be a part of the landscape for a long time until the next "new-thing" comes along 01:58:10 That is what I think will happen to Linux. Most distributions will go the systemd/ RedHat way. The parts used are growing to big and unwieldy to ba maintainable by others than large, corporate- backed, teams of developers. 01:59:09 i think it's already happened long ago 01:59:11 Things are becoming too big and too complicated. Understanding how these things really work becomes impossible. 01:59:18 exactly 01:59:56 Someone said the kernel is now a support system for SystemD ;) 02:00:31 it's all well and good for a small distro such as "devuan' to proclaim that they will be 'systemd free' but as the years go by they will fade into insignificance and incompatibility 02:00:44 Kernel- SystemD- Wayland- Gnome/KDE. All locked together 02:01:12 mtsd, yeah, but then Linux has been 'going it's own way' for a decade now 02:01:22 Yes, that's true 02:01:46 and I'm fine with that, Linux has taken over everything, this was inevitable 02:02:10 but it meant that Linux was no longer suitable for me 02:02:17 Like Windows did before, more or less 02:02:44 and like most Forthers, I'm 0.000000001% of the population 02:02:56 nah, I hated windows from the start 02:03:07 I was using SCO Linux 02:03:44 I thought windows was a joke, a childs toy, garish and coloured in by infants with crayons 02:04:19 I've never felt differently 02:04:46 Forthers are a small group, indeed. Personally, I like small groups better than the big, common, ones. 02:05:04 Small groups and tools tend to keep their focus better 02:05:34 Not becoming watered down comporomises chasing the lowest common denominator 02:06:21 I agree 100% 02:06:46 I do appreciate that Windows is the defacto desktop and electronics OS worldwide 02:07:00 and that many have to use it in their day jobs 02:07:41 I designed my life around unix and made sure that I could avoid Windows, I worked hard to keep it that way 02:08:00 when a employer told me I 'had to use Windows", I'd just resign 02:08:10 and get another job 02:08:56 eventually when I started my own business I was automating my Windows using competitors out of business 02:09:21 the fact is that life with Windows is very *hard* and very *slow* 02:09:21 Good tactic :) 02:09:51 at times I actually felt sorry for my competitors as I watched them struggle to do stuff I did easily 02:10:49 and in 99% of the cases, they never did build any of my automation, I think they simply never imagined they could 02:10:54 they still havent 02:11:54 of course starting Forth in 2014 slowly began to rearrange my neurons and I began to imagine better and further 02:12:39 I had a similar experience with Lisp. Started out with Java and Python, but Lisp changed the way I view things. 02:13:08 unix has enabled my forth development system, I would be struggling like a cripple if I was using Windows 02:13:10 I have a feeling more exposure to Forth will speed up the procedure 02:13:30 mtsd, awesome, I'm still determined to learn lisp 02:14:01 it's the smarter neurons I'm after, not the programming language 02:14:29 I found Forth through Lisp. The dialect I use, Picolisp, is written by a Forth programmer. 02:15:28 mtsd, over the last 2 months I have received contact from around 6 new forthers who saw my forth publications in one medium or another. One is here now on this channel 02:15:45 Ive got picolisp and I like it a lot 02:16:21 tpbsd, your publications are very good. I always enjoy reading them 02:16:52 mtsd, of the 6, two are Windows users and are really struggling, I doubt they will ever use Forth properly 02:16:59 mtsd, awesome :) 02:18:05 mtsd, they are just my notes (on the documentation site) as I learn Forth and the only reason I put them on the web was because there is so little modern Forth info available, I was starving for content myself 02:18:46 the utube videos are only because there are NO recent forth videos on utube! 02:19:47 there are a million arduino videos, all copies of copies, all lacking the full details, all repeating the same mistakes 02:21:10 the life of a Forth cortex-m hardware developer is a lonely one indeed 02:21:33 Whoa whoa whoa there is WAY to much discussion going on in here 02:21:46 :) 02:22:34 jsoft, cut back on the bourbon and draino and youll be able to keep up ;-) 02:23:03 I only just got here :P 02:23:13 mtsd, itr seems to me that the cold must be very good for neurons :) 02:23:35 What's ole mtsd up to then 02:23:36 actually jsoft youre my star new Forth user! 02:24:01 Nawww thats cute :P 02:24:12 I actually aint done any forthing in way too long 02:24:28 I'm still slaving away at my C code :( 02:24:35 mtsd, jsoft came via a totally 100% C user forum where I was hammered from every direction for months because I talked about Forth 02:24:41 Hi jsoft! Enjoying some time off work over the holidays 02:25:18 mtsd, Yeah its good aye. Though I accidentally am still working, catching up on projects 02:25:55 mtsd, C trolls even started new topics such as "why are Forth users so aggressive?" because I wouldn't put up with their C sycophancy 02:26:06 tpbsd, where is this ? 02:26:13 EEVblog 02:26:18 They did that? 02:26:21 sure 02:26:24 lol 02:26:26 Lame 02:26:45 haham why are Forth users so aggressive? What about C users then? ;) 02:26:49 I hammered them right back, I'm suprised I didnt get banned or at least a stern talking to 02:26:56 tpbsd, links? :D 02:27:14 I remember reading your stuff there, I never remember any agressive stuff 02:27:16 jsoft, you can use the eevblog search function cant you ? 02:27:31 When people run out of arguments, the fists come out. Or, in the case of the internet, the flame wars.. 02:27:34 tpbsd, nah, I think you need to do it for me 02:27:36 mtsd, it's a C world 02:27:45 jsoft, be a man! 02:28:20 This channel seems very far from aggressive 02:28:23 mtsd, C users are the worst really 02:28:38 I dunno why you have such a problem with C users 02:28:41 its just a language 02:28:41 mtsd, thats because Forth forums are very reasonable 02:29:44 If you go on a Forth forum and say "forth sucks" youll get someone like rdev-drop asking "why do you believe Forth sucks?" in a very non agressive way 02:30:02 Why would you do that anyway 02:30:27 jsoft, you and I know C is just a language, but many C users believe that C is *the language* 02:30:43 jsoft, I wouldnt do that 02:31:01 Forthers are reasonable people. Knowing they have something good and does not need to prove things. 02:31:36 I dunno. I think forth is quite neat. I'm not about to go starting some shit about it 02:32:10 I think C is kinda useful too, but aint going to start anything about that either. 02:32:11 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/why-forth-users-so-agressive/msg2641056/#msg2641056 02:32:22 Hah! Yay lazy wins 02:32:30 jsoft, "mr scram" was one of the worst 02:33:08 but even the most knowlegable ones generally believe that Forth is obsolete and a waste of time, 'read only' etc 02:33:40 mtsd, yes, forthers are very reasonable in general 02:34:00 mtsd, in fact I find Forthers and Lispers the most reasonable of all 02:34:38 Meh 02:34:52 I often call C/C++/Arduino users "C Cargo Cultists" 02:35:20 I think time would be better spent arguing vegans 02:36:15 because their ridiculous notions about the value of libraries and their notion that "C runs at the bare metal" just make me laugh so much my head usually falls off 02:36:38 jsoft, no need to argue with vegans 02:36:57 Well there is not, just as with C users 02:37:01 jsoft, vegans either become meat eaters or die, the problem solves itself 02:37:27 Well with code, you gotta show results, the gains as you will 02:37:48 mtsd, have you seen my latest 'xmas special' video ? 02:37:50 Show some muscle bound project, next to a scrawny skeleton C project 02:37:57 hahah 02:38:39 jsoft, I take no C prisoners 02:38:56 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 02:39:09 Lol you and your C user crusade :D 02:39:56 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 02:39:59 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 02:40:21 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 02:40:40 jsoft, it's not personal, try advocating Forth on eevblog yourself sometime :) 02:41:04 jsoft, then you'll quickly get learned and see wjat I mean 02:41:06 tpbsd, if I were to do that, I would do it with a completed project example 02:41:33 jsoft, a excellent strategy 02:42:14 tpbsd, no, I haven't seen the xmas special. Sounds like something good to watch tonight 02:42:21 if only the C users followed your example 02:42:34 good evening Forth-shoppers 02:42:45 Good evening, rdrop-exit! 02:43:05 https://youtu.be/xpTvd1Zhe0U STM32F103C8 Diagnostics. Did your Blue Pill get a FREE 64kB Flash for Xmas ? 02:43:17 wife just went grocery shopping, thought I'd check in 02:43:24 evening Zen Forth Guru! 02:43:31 Hi mtsd! 02:43:43 Hi Forth Master Technician (tm) 02:44:24 Nice video, watched it the other day 02:44:35 mtsd no C users have commented against my Forth binary, but I didnt advertise it as a "forth binary" 02:44:42 rdrop-exit, cool 02:46:05 Ive had 59 views with 7 likes and 0 dislikes. It has resulted in 30 downloads 02:46:06 What were the specs of the RISC-V core on that board you were playing with? 02:47:15 the part is called 'longan-nano' and it uses the GD32VF103 chip 02:47:34 basic specs are 32kb ram and 128kb flash 02:47:44 108Mhz max clock 02:48:08 thanks! 02:48:55 mtsd, my main point about that video and the bootable binary I made is that 75% of the downloaders are in the USA and the OS is Windows, which means Arduino/C/C++ 02:49:42 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 02:50:04 mtsd, in summary, I made a diagnostic binary that is popular with Arduino/C/C++ users because no one using those systems has ever made something like this 02:50:27 mtsd, it took a Forth user to make one available for them 02:51:36 Good work :) 02:52:17 mtsd, they (arduino/c/C++ users) have been debating the issues that my binary resolves for years because no one had a clue, they didn't even make a program to print the "chip id" information 02:52:30 RV32IMAC (32GPRs) 02:53:24 mtsd, and whats funny ? the whole process was so easy, Id doubt they'd believe me if I told them 03:03:08 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 03:06:53 Forth Master Technician baffles Arduino-ville, film at 11 03:07:51 lol, it's not a contest, I just respond strongly to their nonsense, poor schmucks 03:24:45 Yeah but C has more libraries 03:24:51 :D 03:26:06 whatta ya mean!! I have 183 libraries! 03:26:23 and mine mostly work :P 03:28:48 lol 03:28:57 Do you have any forth shields tho? 03:29:40 what's it to ya pal! 03:30:42 It's not :P 03:30:48 my Forth neurons are like a shield of steel to you arduino cargo cultists 03:31:43 I can make a led blink using my superior arduino shield and associated libraries 03:33:46 we are not worthy 03:37:31 jsoft, thats right, and using the latest highly efficient, intelligent self optimising compiler, it only takes 30kB for a led blinky 03:38:15 as opposed to 80 bytes for a ancient, write only, Forth blinky 03:38:50 we are not worthy 03:39:23 Exactly. 03:39:54 More code is more betterer, surely. 03:41:15 Mo better, mo better 03:42:00 All your RAM are belong to us 03:42:54 it's not the code or the size of it, what's important is what your mates on the extreme left think it is. If they think it's a teapot, you'd better not say it's code 03:45:26 or maybe they might say that your code is "fluid", today it's C, but tomorrow it may be Java, when in fact you know it's Forth, but don't argue, just be flexible 03:47:34 make sure your tether is flexible 03:50:15 lol 03:50:16 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 03:50:45 dinner time, catch you later 03:50:52 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 03:51:16 mine is, it consists of 4 silvered, teflon coated wires made in the 60's and used to wire up a Burroughs Tape drive 04:00:25 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:00:54 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 04:04:31 tpbsd, I laughed at the part " what's important is what your mates on the extreme left think it is" :) 04:05:00 Very true, these days. In many contexts. 04:05:11 mtsd, :) 04:05:28 :D 04:05:36 Wait, THATS RACIST! 04:05:44 You NAZI! 04:05:48 no it's misogynist! 04:05:56 ALL OF THOSE THINGS! 04:06:01 :) 04:06:05 it's just oozing with toxic maleness 04:06:21 Now this channel starts sounding like the rest of the internet :) 04:06:34 Fuck yeah toxic maleness, the factory of innovation and productivity 04:07:15 Facts are secondary to someone's "EXPERIENCE". How someone "feels" about things etc etc 04:07:39 FEELINGS ARE EVERYTHING!@! 04:08:07 Don't you dare bring facts into the equation 04:08:16 Exactly. 04:09:47 Facts tend to disagree with the leftist view of the world. So, damn the facts. 04:09:59 Yes, quite. 04:10:07 HOW DARE YOU! 04:10:09 :D 04:10:09 The map is right, the terrain is wrong. The terrain must be altered 04:10:18 hehe 04:10:26 Thats a good call actually, I like that 04:10:46 The truth is wrong! 04:11:10 the truth is 'fluid' 04:27:05 :) 04:30:55 I feel triggered. 04:31:01 I need a safe space 04:31:58 you poor little girlyboy ! 04:32:13 lol 04:32:29 hey check this out, who knows what the short line in the middle of the list is ? 04:32:33 file:///home/tp/projects/programming-languages/forth/mecrisp-stellaris/mecrisp-unofficial-doc/_build/html/cloning.html?highlight=ihex#ihex 04:32:37 oops 04:32:45 better upload IT i guess 04:32:45 yeah thats not going to work :D 04:33:35 https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/cloning.html?highlight=ihex#ihex 04:33:55 it could work, this PC is pingable from the web :) 04:34:15 but you do need IPV6 to ping it :) 04:35:27 so who knows what theyre looking at in that pic ? 04:35:56 arduino users are exempted because it will only make them feel triggered 04:36:01 Looks like the memory addresses of an stm32 something something 04:36:12 warm 04:36:29 I dunno, the recipie for a steak>? 04:36:44 it's a iHex dump of a Forth bootable binary image 04:37:00 it does look delicious like a steak 04:37:08 I was wpondering why it was so bloated, when an arduino image would suffice 04:37:22 the short line is whats known as a 'extended address' 04:37:57 this total Forth binary is peobably smaller than a arduino blinky 04:39:27 and this "020000040001F9" extended address flags that the address has reached $10000 or 64kB 04:40:51 Sounds like fake news, to me. 04:41:03 now any hardware person who isn't enthralled by this revelation had best go back to Arduino and forget Forth 04:42:04 this beautiful, colored list is the secret way that one clones a Forth chip 04:42:33 unless of course it is 'tethered' 04:42:45 SO this is your 128k thingy 04:43:00 actually it's my 4GB thingy 04:43:10 :| 04:43:37 my little extended iHex generator will work all the way up to 4GB 04:43:56 ... 04:44:10 I made it go to the maximum so that when MCU's start coming out with 4GB of flash, I'm ready! 04:45:21 i mean, dilithium crystal memory may be just around the corner! 04:45:38 Mmm 04:45:54 Sounds like you are trying to further white supremecy 04:46:17 is that even possible ? 04:46:31 Here is an interesting cat tho: "Nils Axel Morner" re climate change stuff, in particular, sea levels 04:46:40 tpbsd, hah :D 04:47:06 hey you know how to tell if the Earth is in a ice age ? 04:47:43 I guess it would be convered in ice 04:48:20 It might be, but being covered isnt needed. Just the fact that there is ice at the poles means the Earth is in a ice age 04:48:35 Is that the definition? 04:48:41 if the Earth isnt in a ice age, there is NO ice 04:48:57 and the sea level is 20m higher 04:49:07 yeah, thats the definition 04:49:13 I dunno about this whole sea level bullshit 04:49:23 it's not complicated 04:49:30 Oh? 04:49:40 I think it aint going to budge fuck all 04:49:46 if all the ice melts, then there is no ice age and the seal level is 20m higher 04:49:52 -l 04:49:57 20m? Farrrrrrk off 04:50:17 youre right, the ice isnt going to all melt, not this age 04:50:30 we are in a ice age, but at the start of one 04:50:34 even if it did.. 20m? Sounds like abosolute shit to me 04:50:42 the ice isnt going anywhere in general 04:51:19 Where is this outrageous amount of volume coming from ? 04:51:19 it's happened 4 times before in the last half million years as evidenced by ice and earth cores 04:51:32 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 04:51:36 it comes from all the melted ice 04:51:42 Where is that? 04:51:46 What ice? 04:51:51 at the poles, and in my freezer 04:51:57 The poles? is that it ? 04:52:01 yep 04:52:03 Cmon man 04:52:06 20m? 04:52:08 thats where all the ice is 04:52:31 dude, we have seashells in centeral australia, Ive seen them myself 04:52:32 how the left testicle is that going to rise the oceans 20cm, letalone 20 m 04:52:43 tpbsd, so? 04:52:55 all the ice has to melt, and it will when the eart is NOT in a ice age 04:53:17 tpbsd, how can the ice occupy that much volume once melted? 04:53:23 20m over the entire globe 04:53:27 thats stupidity 04:53:29 when the earth is in a ice age, that water is locked up in the poles 04:53:58 no, the sea level will rise by 20m, it wont cover the entire globe by 20m 04:53:59 Granted, I have not done calculations on it, but that is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOT of volume it needs to fill 04:54:11 tpbsd, thats still what I am talking about 04:54:15 a 20m rise is HUGE 04:54:22 of course it's HUGE 04:54:28 Like stupid stupid huge 04:54:31 have you had a look at the poles ? 04:54:43 Yeah I was just there the other day buying a hot dog 04:54:45 how deep is the ice over greenland ? 04:54:50 Deep? 04:54:53 What does that matter. 04:54:54 1 inch ? 04:54:59 a whole foot ? 04:55:18 well, make sure youre sitting down ... 04:55:23 ok 04:56:02 the depth of the ice over greenland is known, and people who can actually do geometry can calculate thr volume of ice locked up there alone 04:56:26 lol. 04:56:36 thats one of the reasons that maths is useful they tell me 04:56:41 I get that. 04:56:53 not that I'd know as I left skool at 16 04:56:54 I still call bullshit on 20m. 04:57:22 can you imagine the end of the universe ? 04:57:54 if you can't then perhaps your mind is unable to comprehend some orders of magnitude ? 04:58:24 :| 04:58:28 Seriously? 04:58:40 The end of the universe, vs sea levels? 04:58:44 Cmon man. 04:59:09 The thickness of the ice cap in Greenland is dependent on the surface temperature, depth of snow cover, and amount of heat flux from the water below. An ice core of 2237 m deep was discovered in 1981 southeastern Greenland. The average thickness of ice at the ridges have been found to be 4548 m. 04:59:47 Ok, ice levels ABOVE sea level, thanks 05:00:23 And not including non ice shit which will not melt 05:00:35 what like rock ? 05:00:41 or witches ? 05:00:48 :| 05:00:57 how heavy is that ice sheet ? 05:01:42 Ice covers 10% of the land on Earth, mainly in the Greenland and Antarctic Ice Sheets. The Greenland Ice Sheet has an average depth of 1,600 meters (5,300 feet) with a maximum depth of about 3,400 meters (11,300 feet). It covers an area of 1.8 million square kilometres (0.7 million square miles). 05:03:04 just as a exercise in comprehending the size of things, I want you to count to one million. Start tonight and get back to me when you get to one million ? 05:06:24 In the period between 130,000 and 115,000 years ago, Earth’s climate was warmer than today. But how much warmer was it and what did the warming do to global sea levels? 05:06:35 jsoft: the bedmap2 project indicates that there is a potential of a 58 meter rise in sea level from the total ice in Antarctica 05:06:55 The new results from the NEEM ice core drilling project in northwest Greenland, led by the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of Copenhagen show that the climate in Greenland was around 8 degrees C warmer than today during the last interglacial period, the Eemian period, 130,000 to 115,000 years ago. 05:08:12 need to know ice levels above sea level 05:08:42 “The good news from this study is that the Greenland ice sheet is not as sensitive to temperature increases and to ice melting and running out to sea in warm climate periods like the Eemian,as we thought” explains Dorthe Dahl-Jensen and adds that the bad news is that if Greenland’s ice did not disappear during the Eemian then Antarctica must be responsible for a significant portion of the 4-8 meter rise in sea levels that we know occurred durin 05:08:42 g the Eemian. 05:09:02 Mmm 05:09:19 https://www.nbi.ku.dk/english/news/news13/greenland-ice-cores-reveal-warm-climate-of-the-past/ 05:10:00 crc, thanks for the info, seems there is a LOT of water locked up in the ice still 05:10:26 antartica has a *huge* amount of water locked up as ice 05:10:45 Really 05:11:27 crc ans Antartica is "just down the road" from here :) 05:12:08 --- join: f-a joined #forth 05:12:23 So apparently it requires 361km cubed of water to raise the sea level by 1 mm 05:12:24 26.54 million cubic kilometers, excluding ice shelves (per table 7 from https://www.the-cryosphere.net/7/375/2013/tc-7-375-2013.pdf) 05:13:14 crc, 73 mm 05:16:19 jsoft, only one problem, they already know that the seal levels rose 4-8 meters during the Eemian period 05:16:24 -l 05:16:25 lol. 05:16:58 no, 73 meters, not mm 05:16:59 the earth wasnt actually covered in seals to a depth of 4 -8 meters 05:17:09 73 meters? Really? 05:17:50 id trust crc here, he's the architect of awesomeforth! 05:18:00 hmm 05:19:14 tho some people call it "retroforth" ;) 05:19:36 Ahh right right, brain fart 05:19:58 --- quit: iyzsong (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05:20:16 oddly 'miss smithers', jsoft's grade 3 maths teacher would not be surprised ... 05:20:55 Phhht. 05:21:26 the question is if the Greenland ice sheet and antartica ice both melted .... 05:21:35 Yes that is the question 05:21:44 I would be curious to know 05:21:56 would the increase in sea level be high enough to cover jsofts ego ? 05:22:10 My ego? 05:22:15 yeah 05:22:34 :| 05:22:52 ye who are so sure that your mind easily can imagine quantities on a global scale :) 05:23:13 you flea! 05:23:28 bringing some forth to this: http://forth.works/share/c23d26998e315ca02bdcf13386db3196.html 05:23:36 Ye who was so sure of buffers vs alloc's the other day, tpbsd 05:24:36 Yes yes I shoved that into a calculator a while ago while my head was not up my ass. 05:25:11 crc, thats a unfair advantage using Forth against "C boi" here ! 05:25:16 I am most curious to know much of that volume is above the sea level 05:26:08 jsoft, I didnt have a clue the other day! 05:26:08 tpbsd, don't make me bust out a library 05:26:10 :P 05:29:48 tpbsd: http://forth.works/share/c23d26998e315ca02bdcf13386db327.html adds in a value for the greenland ice, giving a maximum rise of 81.55 meters if all the ice in both was to melt 05:32:00 crc, wow 05:32:05 jsoft, https://neo.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/view.php?datasetId=ICESAT_ELEV_G 05:32:23 jsoft the height above sea level is up to 4000 feet 05:33:24 tpbsd, so there is a 4000 foot deep layer of ice? 05:33:26 --- quit: smokeink (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 05:33:40 crc, scientists know from ice cores and earth cores that during a non ice age that the sea level has risen 25 metres. I dont believe there is any question of it as they have the historical records going back 500,000 years 05:34:16 jsoft, no it's actually 4000 feet HIGH :) 05:35:03 jsoft, ever heard of Mt Erebus ? 05:35:29 a 747 flew into it during a jet tour of antartica many years ago 05:35:38 it's made of um, ice 05:36:56 tpbsd, yeah but I mean it's depth 05:37:22 And as a result, voume 05:41:01 jsoft: 4897 meters for the thickest ice found in the bedrock2 study (see table 7) 05:41:24 jsoft: Area below sea level (10^6 km2 05:41:24 ) 5.50 05:42:02 (for Antartica; I don't have much reference material on hand for the northern ice) 05:42:05 i know that the Greenland ice sheet is so heavy that it has pushed the underlying earth down quite deep, something akin to the Grand Canyon 05:42:56 well lads, it's zz time for me, up early tomorrow 05:43:26 thanks for the very interesting chat and the math support CRC :) 05:43:47 total area of the antartic ice is 13.924 x 10^6 km^3, so less than half of the area drops below sea level 05:46:58 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 05:51:41 crc, hmm 05:56:47 the actual impact would be less, as liquid water is denser than ice 06:00:16 I updated http://forth.works/share/c23d26998e315ca02bdcf13386db327.html to account for the approx 9% density difference (per http://chemistry.elmhurst.edu/vchembook/122Adensityice.html) 07:48:43 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 07:51:11 --- quit: mtsd (Client Quit) 07:51:49 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 07:59:49 --- join: learning joined #forth 08:16:01 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:49:38 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 09:54:32 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 10:19:39 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:38:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o proteusguy 10:43:51 --- topic: set to 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN backup at http://forthworks.com/forth/irc-logs/ | If you have two (or more) stacks and speak RPN then you're welcome here! | https://github.com/mark4th' by proteusguy 11:15:43 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 11:18:38 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 11:21:32 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 11:21:40 --- quit: learning () 11:26:50 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 11:28:57 --- quit: mtsd (Client Quit) 11:37:37 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 12:59:11 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 13:39:46 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13:42:29 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 13:49:14 --- join: f-a joined #forth 14:10:51 --- quit: smokeink (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14:26:39 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 14:34:04 --- join: ryke joined #forth 14:52:46 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:54:39 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 15:02:17 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 15:31:38 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 16:07:49 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16:18:08 --- join: learning joined #forth 16:47:59 --- quit: guan (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:48:08 --- join: guan joined #forth 16:53:32 --- quit: learning () 17:28:25 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 17:44:30 --- join: learning joined #forth 17:49:10 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:49:45 --- join: Keshl joined #forth 18:03:43 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 18:19:27 --- join: X-Scale joined #forth 18:43:54 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 18:46:42 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 19:18:16 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:55:49 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 20:07:00 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 20:22:56 --- quit: learning (Remote host closed the connection) 20:24:38 --- nick: jedb__ -> jedb 20:41:34 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 20:50:48 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:51:02 --- join: Keshl joined #forth 21:03:41 --- join: ryke joined #forth 21:38:21 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 21:47:39 --- quit: qweo (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 21:53:41 --- join: qweo joined #forth 23:12:08 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.12.30